Shipwright Archive

Interesting snippet from our friend the troll, dug up from the doctor forums (if I remember right)

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Arryth wrote:

MrChUTOyOu you just do not "get it"....

My buff prices are based off mission pay outs....If i can make more money just doing th emission sthen setting seling the buffs, then it does not male economic sence to sell buffs.....Its boring and can be very agrovating. If yuo dont lik eit tough...No one has to buy my buffs...Yet many did when I still buffed for money.

You are not the price controler on this server.. Your just one doc who thinks he has the right to tell other players how they can spend the time THEY pay for...

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I could not agree more, and you are refering to another Doc on the same server, guess it does not work the same way when you are a different profession?

Yeah I am actually offended enough by his attitude to feed him

Question Arryth...should shipwrights EXIST?

Message Edited by Chiwawa on 01-14-2005 01:14 AM

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EdOWar wrote:

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Arryth wrote:
The avain I gathered my self would sell for 400 cpu or more on most servers (I gathored 250k of it). SO each buff is a cost of 3240 just in meat,

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Here's where this guy's hypocrisy really shines through. He assumes the cost for Avian meat he gathered himself is the going rate of 400 cpu. Mind you, he didn't buy the meat for 400 cpu. His only effective cost was the time he spent harvesting 250K (which I'll grant is no easy feat).

But he expects shipwrights to sell their wares at 1 cpu, because the cost of harvesting the resources ourselves is so cheap. Nevermind that top-grade resources used in shipwright components could easily sell for 5 to 20 cpu. No, in his calculations, shipwrights aren't allowed to use the going market value of the resources as a cost factor...but he can when determining the cost of his buffs.

You've been exposed for what you really are. Go troll somewhere else.

Slim Vargo, Corbantis

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Message Edited by MonsofoLexius on 01-14-2005 09:34 AM

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Diorchas wrote:

Chiwawa,

Much as I respect your opinion, you're pissing into the wind here. Only thing that can come of that is getting your own shoes soaked.

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I've just given up, with the amount of respect we get what on earth is the point of this profession?

Edit: scratch that, all my customers convinced me to stay, my comment, I really dont care what you think cos your full of *&*^

Message Edited by Chiwawa on 01-15-2005 10:18 PM

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Diorchas wrote:

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Chiwawa wrote:

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Diorchas wrote:

Chiwawa,

Much as I respect your opinion, you're pissing into the wind here. Only thing that can come of that is getting your own shoes soaked.

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I've just given up, with the amount of respect we get what on earth is the point of this profession?

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Keeping your guildies happy. That's what I'M doing with it.

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Change of heart, change of vendor location to follow. Customers too happy to give it up so sod the nerf criers, they are all full of *&%^

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Rhysen wrote:

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Arryth wrote:
10k is low for naritus and most servers. It is an established price. It is not based in any part on the actual quality of my resourses or my buffs.. If I charged on a bases of resourse cost my buffs would cost more like 15k each.
I hit 2650 per buff for 3 hours and 45 min on all stats (I make all packs identacle) Comparing doc crafting to ship crafting is just silly.. Doc crafting requires vastly more time. Especially because I gather ALL of my own resourses.
The avain I gathered my self would sell for 400 cpu or more on most servers (I gathored 250k of it). SO each buff is a cost of 3240 just in meat, about another 3000 for all the other resourses. so lets say 6500 so far cost per buff... the theirs food.. my total cost per buff/food dose is about 600 credits.. So 7,100 credits is my cost to deliver each buff.. and I make a profit of 2,900 of each one.. Thats not a big return considering the gigantic amount of time invested to get from resourses (eithor bought or gathered). That does not even count the harrassment, and abuse that we have to put up with, which is substantial, and It also assumes you SELL every buff you make.. My actually realized profit per buff is more like 2,000. So i make about a 20% profit. The 25% ive seen sighted by some shipwrights on this forum is alot better then my 20%, and for much less work... Dont think so? Go gather 20k of avian some time.... There are ample oppurtunities for a shipwright to make money in ways other then crafted parts sales... A big one Id like to see is re'd part sales. Get pilot... its free.. and gathor loot.. re it and sell it... the good stuff is worth alot. Plus you can subsadise your shipwright with space money. Every shipwright should also be a master pilot.. and a seasoned one at that... You must know the ins and outs of what ytou sell and their effects in space combat.

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Unless you're going to say "Every Doctor should be a Master Ranger/Artisan" don't presume to tell people what professions they should be. I'm Ace Alliance pilot and in reaching Ace level, I had to neglect progression in Shipwright. There's only so many hours in a play session and hunting for cheap resources eats a lot of time. Along with crafting substantial amounts of stock.

Now you seem to be able to justify YOUR outrageous inflation of cpu when people question your prices for buffs. But when it comes to Shipwrights, we're greedy. I have a saying "With hypocrisy comes apathy".

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You also forget the cost/benifit of the buff.. With that buff much money can be made.. with most ship parts, at the prices that are predomanateing... You will never realize a profit from buying the part, or ship

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Diorchas wrote:

Chiwawa,

I came to the conclusion long ago that this guy is either intentionally stirring up trouble by pretending to not understand the very reasonable explanations that Shipwrights give for our prices..

or...

he's a willfully ignorant @$$hat.

Either way, it's a waste of our time to dignify his remarks, since it's obvious that common sense and consideration are not in his vocabulary.

I mean, this is the same guy who will justify his own markup but rail against us for marking our prices up LESS than he does. It's an exercise in futility trying to reach him.

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LOL.. give me a break.. in total time required in doc meds vs shipparts.. Doc has you completely trumped.. much of the doc services is for his time. I understand well the shipwright problems, but I do not agree with your solutions of nerfing. You all should be asking the deves to streamline the profession and lower resourse costs, not ruin fun for your customers... None of you think of the pilots.. just your own egos and wallets. You do not need to, nor should you as shipwrights be able to make every thing better then loot. And as far as marking my prices up more?? Time included im makeing far less cpu then the shipwrights on my server. Someone selling an x-wing at 400k here makes 100k profit fro 5 min time... I have to set for a half hour applying buff after buff to make that much, not counting time spent crafting the stuff. Its apples to oranges..

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Chiwawa wrote:
I still disagree, I turn over 1-3 million credits a day, I cant harvest that much.

Yes I agree, an master artisan can survey his own stuff. However the limits set by the harvester BER rates were designed pre-shipwright, and so simply cannot cope with a successful shipwright in todays game. I can burn through a days resource takings with 15 experimental blasters, so quite simply we cannot harvest enough

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Thats a faulty argument... You do not need to sell mountans of stuff.. if you run out, you run out. Its no justification to nerf our loot or to defend the high prices, which HAVE 100% hurt jump to light speed.. It turns alot of players off to it..

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EdOWar wrote:

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Arryth wrote:
10k is low for naritus and most servers. It is an established price. It is not based in any part on the actual quality of my resourses or my buffs.. If I charged on a bases of resourse cost my buffs would cost more like 15k each.
I hit 2650 per buff for 3 hours and 45 min on all stats (I make all packs identacle) Comparing doc crafting to ship crafting is just silly.. Doc crafting requires vastly more time. Especially because I gather ALL of my own resourses.
The avain I gathered my self would sell for 400 cpu or more on most servers (I gathored 250k of it). SO each buff is a cost of 3240 just in meat, about another 3000 for all the other resourses. so lets say 6500 so far cost per buff... the theirs food.. my total cost per buff/food dose is about 600 credits.. So 7,100 credits is my cost to deliver each buff.. and I make a profit of 2,900 of each one.. Thats not a big return considering the gigantic amount of time invested to get from resourses (eithor bought or gathered). That does not even count the harrassment, and abuse that we have to put up with, which is substantial, and It also assumes you SELL every buff you make.. My actually realized profit per buff is more like 2,000. So i make about a 20% profit. The 25% ive seen sighted by some shipwrights on this forum is alot better then my 20%, and for much less work... Dont think so? Go gather 20k of avian some time.... There are ample oppurtunities for a shipwright to make money in ways other then crafted parts sales... A big one Id like to see is re'd part sales. Get pilot... its free.. and gathor loot.. re it and sell it... the good stuff is worth alot. Plus you can subsadise your shipwright with space money. Every shipwright should also be a master pilot.. and a seasoned one at that... You must know the ins and outs of what ytou sell and their effects in space combat.

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Here's where this guy's hypocrisy really shines through. He assumes the cost for Avian meat he gathered himself is the going rate of 400 cpu. Mind you, he didn't buy the meat for 400 cpu. His only effective cost was the time he spent harvesting 250K (which I'll grant is no easy feat).

But he expects shipwrights to sell their wares at 1 cpu, because the cost of harvesting the resources ourselves is so cheap. Nevermind that top-grade resources used in shipwright components could easily sell for 5 to 20 cpu. No, in his calculations, shipwrights aren't allowed to use the going market value of the resources as a cost factor...but he can when determining the cost of his buffs.

You've been exposed for what you really are. Go troll somewhere else.

Slim Vargo, Corbantis

Message Edited by EdOWar on 01-13-2005 11:21 AM

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No poor edowar.. I assigned the value of the avain based on the time it would take to get it my self or the cost to buy it.. which sets it more or less at 400 cpu.. Avian gathering is among the most painfull things in swg.. Its boring, time cunsuming, and oh yes, boring. Gathering 20k of avian can easily take 40 hours or more. You can NOT discount sheer time spent in a resourse that work intensive.. Its not even in the same plain of existence as minerals and chemicals. I expect.. shipwright to sell their stuff at no more then 6cpu. Over that, and I do consider you to be greedy, considering time involved. Especially that the cost spent on your product is VERY unlikely to be realized in any form of profit by your consumer.

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Rowgue wrote:

Welcome to crafting boys. There is not one crafting profession out there that gets the coveted "respect" that you seek. Ask a chef how many times he gets bitched at by docs for how much his Bivoli costs. Ask a doctor how much grief they take in these forums about even charging for their services at all. It comes with the territory when you craft. You have to actually enjoy crafting to be able to put up with it, if money is your main motivation then you will not enjoy your stay.

The majority of the "bigtime" crafters for things such as meds, armor, food and so on are there because they stuck with the profession while everyone else gave it up do to the frustration of dealing with angry customers, posters to the forums, or they weren't making money as fast or as easy as they thought they would. If you truly enjoy the craft then stick with it and you will be reward in the long run.

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That never happend to me when I was makeing both foods and meds.. Though my prices were low end.

How do you expect us to sell components at 6 cpu when good steel, carbonate ore, etc sells for 8-30 cpu?

Tell us to mine it? The last great steel spawn on Starsider was in October. Nothing over 900 OQ since.

If you want good ship parts--stuff made from 2-5 cpu resources, stuff that you can find a good spawn of within a few weeks--I'm sure there's a shipwright somewhere selling those kind of components at what you consider a "reasonable" price. Lord knows there's plenty on my server. If you want great ship parts--the parts that take a lot of time and even more money for a shipwright to produce--expect to pay 10-20 cpu, depending on your server's economy and the given shipwright. Which is quite easy to pay for once you can run duties at 300K an hour. Which also, by the way, is still less than half the cpu that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths charge for their stuff. Do you spend as long trolling their forums telling them how to run their businesses as you do this one?

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Arryth wrote:

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Diorchas wrote:

Chiwawa,

I came to the conclusion long ago that this guy is either intentionally stirring up trouble by pretending to not understand the very reasonable explanations that Shipwrights give for our prices..

or...

he's a willfully ignorant @$$hat.

Either way, it's a waste of our time to dignify his remarks, since it's obvious that common sense and consideration are not in his vocabulary.

I mean, this is the same guy who will justify his own markup but rail against us for marking our prices up LESS than he does. It's an exercise in futility trying to reach him.

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LOL.. give me a break.. in total time required in doc meds vs shipparts.. Doc has you completely trumped.. much of the doc services is for his time. I understand well the shipwright problems, but I do not agree with your solutions of nerfing. You all should be asking the deves to streamline the profession and lower resourse costs, not ruin fun for your customers... None of you think of the pilots.. just your own egos and wallets. You do not need to, nor should you as shipwrights be able to make every thing better then loot. And as far as marking my prices up more?? Time included im makeing far less cpu then the shipwrights on my server. Someone selling an x-wing at 400k here makes 100k profit fro 5 min time... I have to set for a half hour applying buff after buff to make that much, not counting time spent crafting the stuff. Its apples to oranges..

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First off... what "solutions of nerfing" are you talking about? Please, point out to me where I have advocated nerfing anything. It's just this kind of asinine generalisation and misrepresentation that makes you come off as being an ignorant @$$hat with an agenda.

Second, the things you say we "should be doing" are exactly the things we HAVE BEEN DOING. Yet idiots like you STILL attribute false motivations to our community. You wonder why you engender so much antagonism? It's because you are willfully misrepresenting our stance and that undermines our VERY reasonable complaints.

Third, do you really think that Shipwrights make more money as a Shipwright than you do as a Doctor? That would be amusing if the idea weren't so laughably pathetic. As a shipwright I have reaped infinitely more criticism than credits. Because of people like you. Because of the lies and misrepresentations you are guilty of. And because of the necessarily high prices that all shipwrights must charge in order to simply cover their costs, let alone make a profit.

Fourth, don't say we don't think of pilots. Many, if not most, of us are pilots as well. I personally have stated many times that I understand why pilots enjoy the loot aspect of the game. I simply want a loot system whereby BOTH parties benefit and to that end have suggested that shipwrights be allowed to create a limited run schematic of whatever they RE. That way they can benefit from all the best parts that so many Pilots are hoarding.

Fifth, if you discount all intangibles used to determine pricing for Shipwrights (Mining, resources intensivity, lack of factory support, constant grief from the Pilot population, etc) then you absolutely cannot use them to support your argument. Either such intangibles can be applied universally into pricing or they cannot at all. Choose. You don't get to use them to support your argument and deny us the same arguments. It's that very self-centered antagonistic attitude that holds our shared communities back from making real progress.

Sixth, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.

Seventh, you're still an @$$hat.

Bleh. Wasted too much time in here on someone who is incapable of seeing his own ignorance. No more. On to more productive things.