CUEmu - Thread Posts

Rolassk

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:24 am

PetaByte32 wrote:

The truth is almost exactly like you said. Greed. But its coming from the people that DO NOT want factories. As long as you handcraft everything you can make the prices as high as you want and get away with it. I have seen some of the prices going for some of the ships out there. 3 million for aTier 3ship and 10 million for a Master level ship.Yah you may only sell one ship a day but your set for life huh? Cause you know someone will buy it. Unlike me who wants to make sure people arent ripped off.

PetaByte32 wrote:
Simple. Because I went to the other 3 servers I have toons on just to see how prices were. Every shipwright I talked too that had expensive prices said the samething when I asked why so high. "Because I have to handcraft everything."

When 46 SWs all give the same excuse you can bank on it being multiserver wide.

One guy (who will be nameless) wanted 2 million for a Tier 2 ship blueprints only. And his components were outrageous. 100k for a POS Mark II engine that was stock (no experiment). His reply was same for all the others that had massive prices. Sad part is people were paying it willingly.

Well you never came and talked to me.
Based on the many SW I have talked to, or visited their vendors on Kettemoor I can guarantee the lowest prices, and I willNEVER support factories for shipwright. I have given many reasons why in various threads, so I'm not going to waste my wrists explaining some more. I have been tempted with Greed from uninformed buyers a few times now, one guy asked me to make a Z-95 chassisfor 100k, I responded "nope, it will be 12.5k ready in 5 minutes". This customer has come back to me and sent some friends since.

SWs who are saying "Because I have to handcraft everything" how can you tell if they are for or against factories?

Towhoever said, some people just want to buy stuff, they don't want to learn everything or RP the aspect of shopping. First it has nothing to do with RP. Second, yes people want to be informed, they want to learn good from crap. Especially with space they want this knowledge. Most players are sick of hearing the "pwned" power gamer BSthey've witnessedon the ground game, for them JTL is a new beginning to be as good as they can be and not "pwned" by some greasy faced 14year-old.

I'm done posting in this thread, as I expected it to, it turned out into a bash and whine festby the Pro-Factory supporters. Level-headed argumentsneveroccur on these boards and it's sad, because nothing fixes or developes from them.

Good day

GalacTech Drive Systems & Resources
Starships, Components, Ordinance & Resources at 460 -5340, Coronet, Corellia
Blayr Charker *Master Shipwright *Galactic Miner *Retired MD *Kettemoor

All warfare is based on deception -Sun Tzu

Mariki

Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:12 am

#54

We aren't going to decide this issue, the players are as they give SOE an ear full for creating a system that can not meet their demand. The economy is in a downward spin, resource prices have increased tremendously and there is no silver bullet on the horizon. Sure factories would help some but even that will not be enough unless everyone just stops flying. Of course thats not happening and everyone wants the bigger ship and larger systems. Either SW's will drain them of all their credits or resources will run out but a lot of people are not going to be able to meet their goals. Even at the highest pilot skill with the biggest most expensive resource intensive ship, the current system with its heavy decay will mean constant replacement. As pilots climb to this lvl and want these systems, some where along the line the system is going to break and not be able to meet this demand. Its like if an architect had to supply everyone a PA Hall every two weeks. JTL is going to damage the ground game. Adding blue frogs is not an option any more.

Those that argue just raise your prices, thats not going to fix it. You haven't seen anything yet, pilots are still low level. You are not going to have the resources to meet demand, factories or not.

I'm curious how many SW's are now considering hording their best materials to just meet their own demand.

Even with the grind and all the chassis I built, I keep running out of the 2ndtier ships. It will be a resource challenge even to meet that demand and at the next tier it will be impossible.

Mariki Lee, Ex Rifleman
Last day Dec 2nd
Death by NGE
- All Hope Gone

only86

Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:20 am

#55

I havn't read this entire thread but this will count as my opinion and a bump

WE Need factories!

not for chassies..that makes sense

but for gods sake,, we have hundreds of parts to make!

The last 2-3 days I have played.. I havn't gotten a chance to do anything but craft shipwright stuff

literally I have had a line the whole time I was online..which was 8-12 hours a day

its Sick

my arms hurt

my hands hurt.. my elbows hurt

from crafting so much

I am a major crafter on my server and help run one of the biggest/best malls on the server

but without factory support there is no way I can keep up with demand - much less on my other products that are suffering as I am smashed into shipwright

I love shipwright as it is

but it needs factories! ack!

Enkidu - Mayor of
Junction

Coronet Mall 887 -4684

The only maker of perfect 45 FR Crafting Stations

Brilyn

Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:23 am

#56

< "Because I have to handcraft everything" >

Is an excuse. Not a reason.

If you give these people factories, they will charge the *same* prices. But they'll have a different excuse for it.

The only reason (and, by the by, it's a *perfectly* acceptable reason) is: because I want to.

I *guarentee* that if these people were allowed factories, their prices wouldn't budge. And you would hear the following reasons:

I have to recoup the cost of my factories

I have to rent Harvestor space to produce enough resources for my factories

Factories need Credits and Power, so I need to include that in the price of my stuff.

When I make a Factory schem, I lose a LOT of resources, so I have to factor that into my costs.

And so on.....

Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider

Niacia

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:18 pm

#57

pervel wrote:

-Redux- wrote:
Why do those who prefer to custom craft all the time want to push that playing style down on all of us? Some shipwrights could be mainly in the business of factory-made components. Some could be mainly in the business of custom-made components. And yet some (probably most) could do a bit of both. There will be customers for all of the above. Not every pilot wants to take the time out to understand and tune every single detail of components. Iinstead they want to rely on the expertise of shipwrights making "standard" components that they can just buy off of a vendor after looking at the stats that they understand.

Pervel, this goes both ways. In other professions, I have experienced how factory can support affects hand crafting. Maybe you have not experienced this. Maybe it is a little differend from server to server. I do not know. But I know, that adding factory support to SW would take away a lot of fun from me. And other people as well.

So why do you want to force factory support on those people that do not want to have it? There is ONE crafting profession, that does not have factory support. If factory support is so important to you, why not choose one of the many other professions providing factory sipport? Why do you insist on damaging this profession for people, who like the game in another way. In the way, it is right now?

Yes, I like the challange of not every part turning out the same. Throwing away some parts or selling those cheaper. There is a market for those parts at the moment. Add factory support and this market will start to dry away.

Regards

Niacia

-Redux-

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:21 pm

#58

My main fear with factory produced components is that the shipwright will go the way of the weaponsmith and you go to a vendor and see 100's of items that are all the same and the business dominated in such a way that a new shipwright has very little chance of breaking into the business.

If factory use was limited to say Mark I and maybe Mark II components only, limited to say 50 or 100 items per schematic, and say 16 seconds per complexity point, then I could see factories having a purpose, but I just don't want to see the demand for shipwrights dry up because the market gets flooded with products. That is my main concern. I have and am still suffering the pain of being a new Master Weaponsmith trying to break into the business. I have a fruitful little custom weapons business, but it I have spent more time working on building that business (aka talking to people, etc) than I have spent working on shipwright, and businesswise shipwright has been far more profitable and much more fun because I don't feel like I have to beg for business regardless of how good my products and customer service is.

**NEW SIG COMING SOON! WATCH THIS SPACE!**

Rolassk

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:25 pm

#59

pervel, I am glad to see someone arguing against mewith sanity for once.

I am so sick, of the bland "why can't we be like everyone else, and get factories" argument. I can see however, you have put more thought into your statements.

There is so much more customization to shipwright over the other crafting professions, but I do not feel that customization = complication or confusion. Shipwrights are in their infancy (doesn't matter if you beta tested or not, it's a whole new game trying to collect the right resources overhaving them handed to you by a terminal) there were no 900power buffs, 80% composite or 99% experimented damage weapons for months after Empire Divided started. Despite all the areas we can experiment on, the good shipwrights will determine what sells best, and will stock their vendors accodingly. You don't need a huge stocked vendor, all you have to do is dropa backpack in the air 'For custom orders contact ------',or post on the galaxy boards about your services andsimply talk to the pilots out there. I have already had several customers tell me that other shipwrights are ignoring their questions, and that is not right IMO.

I think some (not saying you) that want factories for SW, want them so they can make a schematic and click 'start factory' to make x1000 of it. They want this, so they canfill a vendor with great successes and not worry about interacting with a single customer (they are probably the same crafters that always AFK spam in the starports to

). I'm sorry but two of the better things about shipwright are: Lots of customizability, and hand-crafted items not cookie-cutter schematics. You will need to talk to your customers, which is a good idea that the DEVs have forced this social interaction. If someSWs don't have the time to deal with their customers face to face, then they should leave and go make maxed out powered schematics from other professions, because it smells like theyare only wanting a quick credit grab.

If what you say prevel is true about operating a small weaponsmith business/doing well and enjoying it,then I think you are in great shape to become a successful shipwright. As for components not fitting, again all youneed to do is speak with your customers (before making something) todetermine any possible limitations. I'm keeping track of the 'best' I can make of a component, if a customer needs something that is better I tell them it cannot be done, unless we change other components. If the customer says "no it's ok, I'll use what I have",they will probably come back in the future since you took the time to help them.

I will also point you to this link - It's a calculator that has helped me determine what components to use to fit on a chassis and be underthe reactor's output. Red Dwarf's Ship Calc

GalacTech Drive Systems & Resources
Starships, Components, Ordinance & Resources at 460 -5340, Coronet, Corellia
Blayr Charker *Master Shipwright *Galactic Miner *Retired MD *Kettemoor

All warfare is based on deception -Sun Tzu

IBCrazy

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:28 pm

#60

Brilyn wrote:

< In any case, as can be seen from the many posts and many new threads, this issue is far from dead. And I don't expect it will be for a good while - perhaps it never will be if the devs choose to continue to ignore this issue. >

See, now how is *that* a conducive statement?

In *what* way does it promote discussion?

What you are saying clearly there, is once the Devs change things to the way you want, then it's no longer an issue, and tough luck to people who think differentlyto you.

Are you trying to provoke people, or what?

The devs already answered, they did so in creating the game. And that answer is for no true factory support for SW. I'm not happy with their decision. This profession needs factory support minus the chassis. I fear the way it is now, it will lead to people using 3rd party programs in the attempt to mass produce items. I've already heard of a few talking about it. Think about it for a second, SOME ARE TALKING ABOUT USING THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS TO MASS PRODUCE FOR CUSTOMERS...FOR CUSTOMERS!!!!!! .... Although I would never suggest for anyone to break EULA, but doesnt this suggest that their is a problem?

Brilyn

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:14 pm

#61

< Although I would never suggest for anyone to break EULA, but doesnt this suggest that their is a problem? >

I *could*say yes, and it's in the attitude of people who keep screaming that they need factories.

But that would be a provocative statement, so I guess I didn't say that.

Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider

Estan

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:48 pm

#62

The way I see it is there is 2 kinda of Shipwrights.

Theres one guy that wants to make 100 of every part and get them as good as he can get it and let the pilot load the ship the way he wants.

Then theres the guy who makes ship parts yeah, but he also knows that u can only cookie cut so many parts till players start asking you to make a a reactor with los mass but still has energy output of 9987. Theres is no Cookir press to make that. Thats whare the crafter comes in.

For all the others in the game with exception to chies theres a cookie cutter way of doing it. Example, Architects, Make harvys that have the mose storage least amount of power use and make the BR high. End of story, but this will not help the pilot that wants his Tie/in to have missles, countermeasures, level 7 blasters and still have some armor. Theres no way to know how much mass and energy the reacror will require. Or how much recharge rate on the cap is needed to make, it so the weapon will never over draw the energy storage .

Now as people are leveling up its not that big of an issue because it low level ships are easy to load, Once we start seeing master pilots you will see that they will not want a cookie cut from the same mold. They wil need a reactor that puts out only 9k energy, and the mass is more important then the energy output.

This crafting class is different then anyother in the game. Now I can understand the need for factorys because WE can not keep anything in stock. That will change as players will have 1 or 2 looted parts that they will want to use and they will want us Shipwright to build a ship around them.

I understand the reason for the factorys and yeah it make things easyer now but in the long run it will not be. players will be requesting more and the cookies will sit on the vendor unsold.

Okei

Master Shipwright

ROGUE SKUNK WORKS

Gorath,Solace on Dantooine

Supplyer to the Imperial Navy

Spagyria

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:48 pm

#63

I do not think that a factory is needed for shipwright. Look at real life guys guns are made in factories, cars are made in factories and armament is made in factories all with assembly lines. Ships are still welded together. There are no factories spitting out nuclear sub, or pleasure yachts or cruise ships. They are all made in shipyards, welded together by workers. Some of the parts are prefabricated in factories just as the game allows. But for the most part each piece is made to order. The game reflects technology and building things just as it happens in the real world.

Spagyria Alchemist on Shadowfire

OUR SHOP IS LOCATED ON THE PLANET OF NABOO JUST OUTSIDE THE CITY OF BRENN, THE CLOSEST STARPORT IS IN THEED. /WAYPOINT -1283 2867

Rugburn

Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:02 am

#64

4Bidden wrote:

Mariki wrote:

Oh, and BTW, the only reason not having factory support worked in beta is because everyone was free to dabble in SW and serve their own needs but here on live other masters are hessitant to drop their skills for this. There are no blue frogs... There is no unlimited resources on hand...

I agree 100% and avery good point. The shipwright market was never tested in beta. Almost everyone including myself were really testing the space game, missions, and the ships. I mastered shipwright in beta so I could make ships for myself. I didnt need a factory then cause I didnt have a market to sell to.

I agree as well. I mastered shipwright so I could make parts for myself. I didnt need a factory cause I was making parts for 1 person. The market was never tested.

This is silly. Some of you against factory support claim factories will take away customized parts.. This is not true at all. If someone doesn't like a part I have on a vendor, I am more than willing to customize a part for them.. About 90% of all my customers ask for blasters with high min/max damage, 90% of all of my customers ask for capacitors with high energy and regen rate, 90% of all my customers ask for engines with high speed/pitch/yaw/roll/acceleration, 90% of all my customers ask for chassis with high hitpoints.. Catch my drift?.. For me, there is a commonality that supports the use of a factory.. I have heard it before from the devs that this games economy is modeled from real life dynamics, if this is really the case then factory support should have been added. My customer support was narrowed allot cause of demand. I only tend to guildmates and certain friends. This has allowed me to enjoy the space game cause I don't have to sit in front of a crafting station for hours on end.. Sheer demand suggests factory support, requests for common configurations suggest factory support....peroid.

~~0000000000000000000000000000000~~ Edra - Master Architect
~~000000000000000000000000000000~~0 Enec - Elder Jedi
~~000000000000000000000000000000~~0 Khendra - Bounty Hunter
~~00000000000000000000000000000~~00 -Baby- - Commando
~~0000000000000000000000000000000~~ Eleic - Medic
~~0000000000000000000000000000000~~ Depi - Officer
~~0000000000000000000000000000000~~ ...and many more

Brilyn

Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:03 am

#65

< In any case, as can be seen from the many posts and many new threads, this issue is far from dead. And I don't expect it will be for a good while - perhaps it never will be if the devs choose to continue to ignore this issue. >

See, now how is *that* a conducive statement?

In *what* way does it promote discussion?

What you are saying clearly there, is once the Devs change things to the way you want, then it's no longer an issue, and tough luck to people who think differentlyto you.

Are you trying to provoke people, or what?

Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider

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Thread: Factory Support Is Needed For Shipwright.