Shipwright Archive
Thread: Shipwrights Unite!!! Pricing issues
Why are people so against working together in this game? I honestly do not understand it at all. You have a PA, or at least you have one listed on your account. Ever consider trying to work with them? A good resource comes into shift consider asking 3-4 of them to lend a hand harvesting, then when it comes time when they need a ship, build one for them.I haven't paid for a single chasis or component since JTL launch. Of course easily once every two weeksiget an emailasking me to drop some harvieson some random resourcefor someone in the guild. When a resource comes into shift that is desired by a proffession lend a hand harvesting it. Avian meat shifts in, help a guild doc out, i am willing to be bet you can't find a doc who isn't willing to trade free buffs for a stack of 10K avian meat whenever good stuff shifts in. This game is about team work, not about being able to say i made 71 mil credits off of sologroupJanta mission grinding fools.
Miqmac wrote:
I agree with the original poster for the most part. As far as actually acquiring the resources you guys that have 20 or 30 heavys out there have no room to talk. The game is designed to give you 10 lots per charcter for that character to use. If you find away to work around that with lot trading and alternates then thats great for you. For those of us that play within the boundaries we are given then the ten lots we have is just no enough to supply the resources we need. lets say 3 lots for housing/storage that leaves you with 7 harvesters for resources (if you buy your power). And then only 6 if you use your yacht or other multi person ship. 7 harvesters for 20 resources just dont cut it. If I am luck and manage to find a 90% spot for a decent resource I can gather enough resources in one week to put about 12 level 1, 9 lvl2 and 6 lvl 3 chasis on my vendor. Unfortunately these stay on the vendor for about 1 day. So once a week I can actually gain exp in sw. The truth then is that most of us have to buy resources and need to price accordingly. Currently I price level 1 chasis at 50k, level 2 chasis at 100k, level 3 chasis at 200k. Not many people on my server scoff at these prices and I dont believe they will. I make a very small profit on these ships and generally only enough to buy enough resources to restock my vendor and wait for another day. eventually I will be selling the chasis for 50, 100, 200,400, 800kand 1.5 mil for master and POB ships. I intend to sell components at 10,20,30,40,50k for componenets and likely 1k per shot on missles. These seem like pretty reasonable prices and like I said dont make for a huge profit. Especially considering the money I make is not for me but for more resources to make more ships for my customers.
I will gladly sell these ships for less if they would give me a legitimate 20 lots or if you people managing to steel 30 lots would sell those resources to me for 2-3cpu.
anyway the short version is this.
chasis
lvl 0 50k
lvl 1 100k
lvl 2 200k
lvl 3 400k
lvl 4 800k
master/POB 1.5 mil
Componenet
lvl 0 10k
lvl 1 20k
lvl 2 30k
lvl 3 40k
lvl 4 50k
missles 1k per shot.
Thats the standard I propose. It would become the norm within a week if we let it and it is a fair and equitable system in my opinion.
I would definately be glad to suggest 50% of those prices if people started selling resources for 2-3cpu instead of 5-20cpu. (especially you guys that twist the system in order to have over 20 harvesters working)
Ok, I did misunderstand you. However, If your blaster sits there for 6 months you have greater issues...... We do not have factories and if I did make 50 blasters, and they sat there for 6 months id probably keep them on at the same price or lower it. Because it says to me, that item is not selling. Could have been the resources I used werent that good, or there is just no demand for that item.
Now, in 6 months, when I need to make more blasters (whichI would not do if there was no demand). If that resource has jumped to Xcpu, ill charge Xcpu for that same blaster that ive made. Because, and this is REALLY REALLY SIMPLE so try to pay attention.
IF YOU DO NOT, YOU ARE SELLING AT A LOSS.
Lets look at a direct example here.
Jewlers sell diamond rings and most of them buy the diamonds for Xcpu. The jewler then as part of the cost, assigns a value to their time and effort to craft the item. On top of that, they usually mark it up depending on who they are selling to. If they were selling items at wholesale they would give a better rate than to the retail market.
Now back to the point, a jewler would not sell diamond ring for less than what he could sell the diamonds/resources for. Doing so would be a bad way to run a business. There is no different way to look at this, and out of all the times ive seen you in a conversation about this you have YET to say ANYTHING that would refute my current logic.
There at times when a business would SELL AT A LOSS to beat out the competition, however, they mark the item down as A LOSS. Right now, this really isnt an issue. There is much more demand than supply.
Futhermore, your classic line here
Brilyn said:
Message Edited by loonatik on 11-01-2004 01:07 AM
The above-stated pricing plan seems fair to me. I do think we should sell the "starter" ships for slightly less. They are intended to be gateway ships, if you will, to the more advanced (and more pricey
) ships.That said, I believe parts and ships that have been improved well above average should cost significantly more. As a buyer I would expect something that takes half the mass but does the same amount of damage to cost more than the basic model. (for example)
There needs to be a base-line price for items that both sellers and buyers can look at for pricing information.
Chasis
lvl 0 25k+
lvl 1 100k+
lvl 2 200k+
lvl 3 400k+
lvl 4 800k+
master/POB 1.5 mil+
Componenet
lvl 0 10k+
lvl 1 20k+
lvl 2 30k+
lvl 3 40k+
lvl 4 50k+
missles 1k+ per shot.
If you feel these prices are too high or too low I'd welcome your intelligent input. I'd like to see this become an actual debate opposed to series of people yelling at each other for not knowing what they are talking about.
Sardanis wrote:
I think we should focus on actual pricing of items. If you're looking at this thread it's because you want to know what the generally accepted price for something is so you know what price range to sell at.
The above-stated pricing plan seems fair to me. I do think we should sell the "starter" ships for slightly less. They are intended to be gateway ships, if you will, to the more advanced (and more pricey
That said, I believe parts and ships that have been improved well above average should cost significantly more. As a buyer I would expect something that takes half the mass but does the same amount of damage to cost more than the basic model. (for example)
There needs to be a base-line price for items that both sellers and buyers can look at for pricing information.
Chasis
lvl 0 25k+
lvl 1 100k+
lvl 2 200k+
lvl 3 400k+
lvl 4 800k+
master/POB 1.5 mil+
Componenet
lvl 0 10k+
lvl 1 20k+
lvl 2 30k+
lvl 3 40k+
lvl 4 50k+
missles 1k+ per shot.
If you feel these prices are too high or too low I'd welcome your intelligent input. I'd like to see this become an actual debate opposed to series of people yelling at each other for not knowing what they are talking about.
I like your pricing. Currently I am only selling Chassis and still working out how/what I want to sell of the components, but my Chassis pricing goes
lvl 0 50k+
lvl 1 100k+
lvl 2 200k+
lvl 3 300k+
Haven't grinded up any further yet (ran out of steel), but have also made no sales. Biggest problem is not listing Ship vendors on the map!!
Thats the beef. Price the heck out of the end run ships and components. Thats perfectly fine. But mark 1 stuff, novice and tier 1 ships? Give me a break, there grinding material just like any other profession.
Nobody pays 10cpu for d18's, metal staves, and axes, so why would they for novice ships?
I bought my z-95 for 5k, my Y-Wing for 95k, and my X-Wing for 475k. I know where to shop and who is going to price decently. Now all I have to do is email them my order. So you can advocate 110k for a newbie ship, but if people know where to go to get it for 5k, what would make you think your ever going to get 110k?
If you want to unite shipwrights, sell low. Selling low attracts more business, and in the long run nets you more sales.
jassi007 wrote:
Also, the obvious thing seems to be missing a couple people here. The bottom line is, if you don't have a competative price, you ain't gonna sell jack.
I bought my z-95 for 5k, my Y-Wing for 95k, and my X-Wing for 475k. I know where to shop and who is going to price decently. Now all I have to do is email them my order. So you can advocate 110k for a newbie ship, but if people know where to go to get it for 5k, what would make you think your ever going to get 110k?
If you want to unite shipwrights, sell low. Selling low attracts more business, and in the long run nets you more sales.
Sevardos wrote:
Can we all stop something that makes me cringe every single time I read it?
And thats using real life economics logic to dismiss market value losses versus landed cost (cost of acquiring, manufacturing, harvesting, whatever).
If you want to ignore the market value of resources and only focus on what it cost you to harvest it because it's "just a game" - then please go ahead and all the power to you.
However, lets stop making statements that "market value loss" is not a real loss because it is.It's a fact. It doesn't require debate because it's an absolute. I've seen this in multiple threads and it makes me cringe. If you argue that market value loss doesn't exist in real life, you're only showing, at minimum,your ignorance and continued insistence, at worst, demonstrates your stupidity.
You don't want to apply real life pricing dynamics to a game - thats fine and dandy; it's your $$$ to SOE just like mine and you have every right to do what you please.Lets just not throw the truth out the window in the process shall we?
I'm not really sure how to take your post here. Maybe the original idea for this post was to "unite shipwrights" but the overall theme of the posts have been people sharing their views on how they are pricing their items.
On one hand it sounds like you are saying everyone shouldjust sell their own way. Which is absolutely right. But on the other it sounds like you are condeming people for being concerned about "selling at a loss". They have every right to think this way and dicuss this.
I have not read every single post in this thread and I really have no idea which post you are replying to. Someone in here may have been saying it does not happen in the real world. So my comments are really just a general reply to your statements.
Sure it exists in the real world, as ive said above, department stores sell at a loss all the time to get items out the door. But they do understand they are selling at a loss and put it in the books as such. Does it happen in the real world? Yes. Does/Will it happen in the game? Sure. But that dosent make it good business sense for someone to set their prices at 1 cpu because they are harvesting it when they could be selling those resources for10 cpu on the open market.
Bottom line, if I see people selling it at those prices, im going to buy it and sell it at my prices. Its cheaper for me to do this, than it is to buy the resources on the open market.
Lastly, for the most part, the only people ive seen selling at cheap prices are shipwrights grinding up to master. They are marking their stuff cheaper and rightly so. Its inferior quality to what the master shipwrights are making. Almost every master shipwright ive seen is selling at a reasonable price. Some are going overboard and charging through the nose, but most are reasonable.
Message Edited by loonatik on 11-01-2004 10:26 AM
Malankai wrote:
jassi007 wrote:
Also, the obvious thing seems to be missing a couple people here. The bottom line is, if you don't have a competative price, you ain't gonna sell jack.
I bought my z-95 for 5k, my Y-Wing for 95k, and my X-Wing for 475k. I know where to shop and who is going to price decently. Now all I have to do is email them my order. So you can advocate 110k for a newbie ship, but if people know where to go to get it for 5k, what would make you think your ever going to get 110k?
If you want to unite shipwrights, sell low. Selling low attracts more business, and in the long run nets you more sales.True. However, it depends on what your goals are ... sales or profitability. If a competitor out sales me 10 to 1 ... but we're making the same profit because my prices are higher, am I upset? Personally - no.I manage my prices based on what kind of volume I get. After a few months of having a shop opened, I've got my pricing to the point where it's a comfortable balance of profitability (pricing) and sales volume. This way, I'm not spending every minute in the game just crafting and can enjoy other aspects of it.That's my model and motive. Everyone's is different.
That makes perfect sense to me, but I'd gather the other side of that is you started selling low, and increased pricing gradually to where you go to the point where you only have to restock as often as you are comfortable with. But the important part of that is, you started low, and gradually increased. You just didn't decide that novice ships are worth 110k.
I didn't reply to a specific person - I purposely kept it as a generic statement because I didn't want to start a flame war. It was my way of addressinga pet peeve of mine that I've seen on multiple threads.
loonatik wrote:
Sevardos wrote:
Can we all stop something that makes me cringe every single time I read it?
And thats using real life economics logic to dismiss market value losses versus landed cost (cost of acquiring, manufacturing, harvesting, whatever).
If you want to ignore the market value of resources and only focus on what it cost you to harvest it because it's "just a game" - then please go ahead and all the power to you.
However, lets stop making statements that "market value loss" is not a real loss because it is.It's a fact. It doesn't require debate because it's an absolute. I've seen this in multiple threads and it makes me cringe. If you argue that market value loss doesn't exist in real life, you're only showing, at minimum,your ignorance and continued insistence, at worst, demonstrates your stupidity.
You don't want to apply real life pricing dynamics to a game - thats fine and dandy; it's your $$$ to SOE just like mine and you have every right to do what you please.Lets just not throw the truth out the window in the process shall we?
I'm not really sure how to take your post here. Maybe the original idea for this post was to "unite shipwrights" but the overall theme of the posts have been people sharing their views on how they are pricing their items.
On one hand it sounds like you are saying everyone shouldjust sell their own way. Which is absolutely right. But on the other it sounds like you are condeming people for being concerned about "selling at a loss". Sure it exists in the real world, as ive said above, department stores sell at a loss all the time to get items out the door. But they do understand they are selling at a loss and put it in the books as such. Does it happen in the real world? Yes. Does/Will it happen in the game? Sure. But that dosent make it good business sense for someone to set their prices at 1 cpu because they are harvesting it.
Bottom line, if I see people selling it at those prices, im going to buy it and sell it at my prices. Its cheaper for me to do this, than it is to buy the resources on the open market.
I have not read every single post in this thread and I really have no idea which post you are replying to. Someone in here may have been saying it does not happen in the real world. So my comments are really just a general reply to your statements.