Shipwright Archive

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TomoRainer wrote:
I don't mind 10% decay for PVE. Once you've got to the point where you're putting together really nice RE'd components for yourself, you just don't die that often to NPCs.

Where it does bother me is in PVP. I think PVP damage is closer to where it should be than most people think--reducing it 33-50% would be enough--but the speed at which you die makes it very easy to lose an awful lot of your components' HP in a hurry. I'd like to see PVP decay either reduced to 2-5% or eliminated entirely; right now it's just a big disincentive to ever PVP, which can be incredibly fun, especially if it's in a group. Of course, the problem with group PVP, particularly the organized kind, is you can die plenty of times in one confrontation.. and what that means to me is I either quit after one or two deaths, use stuff I build myself, or just don't PVP. None of which is a very fun solution.

Claims that the elimination of PVP decay would screw over shipwrights fail to consider a few things, I think. One: that not many people do much PVPing in the first place, both because of instadeaths and the harsh penalty for dying, so we're not getting much business from this kind of decay anyway. Two: if more people were PVPing, there would be a greater demand for chaff and missiles, as a lot of those get used in heavier confrontations, and it's possible the serious PVPers will create a better marker for high-end components, especially nice RE'd ones, and custom orders to squeeze more stuff into the tiny ships that make for the best PVPers. Three: if more people are flying--and a great PVP system will draw more people into space, particularly the kind that have money to spend on good stuff--we're going to see more business in general. Imagine if people were excited enough about JTL to talk their friends into coming into space and go fight it out--think that would send any more traffic our way?

It's impossible to quantify whether we'd end up with less or more money in our pockets (for those who are more concerned about that than a robust space PVP system), but I think the chances of us all suddenly going bankrupt are extremely low and would at least be moderated by those three things. There's also the possibility we'd actually end up with more money. If that were the case, and meanwhile pilots are up there having more fun, I can't picture a better outcome.

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Arryth wrote:

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Chiwawa wrote:

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Arryth wrote:
... Assuming im smart with it, I can make a suit of armor last easily a month or more... a frequent space pvper could easily have a ship ruined in a single day...

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I've flown most of the weekend just past, and died twice, resulting in minimal decay to my rather uber A wing

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Arryth wrote:
....Decay was removed.. and its not comeing back.

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When was decay removed, apart from in deep space?

Message Edited by Chiwawa on 01-11-2005 06:30 PM

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Im refering to pvp decay.. its gone and not comeing back. The old pvp decay system it was common to see a ship ruined in a single day of pvp.

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Im still getting decay on the rare occasion I die outside deepspace, pvp or not. I would imagine that if you are getting hammered 10-20 times a day that you can still right off a ship in that time

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Rogue1970 wrote:

I agree with you actually - as a shipwright and a pilot.

I think decay should only effect the HITPOINTS of components and PvP/Deep Space decay should return as it was at launch. If they expect to encourage space PvP, implement an insurance system like on the ground to limit decay.

Decaying both armor and hitpoints seems stupid to me - why even have hitpoints as a craftable line item or stat? The armor will be gone long before the hipoints are, making the item so vulnerable to attack it's silly to continue using it. It also make the use of 'good armor' almost pointelss due to the high costs.

People using the Deep Space ticket for a free repair are exploiting the system anwyay, as they aren't just using it for Deep Space repairs - but ANY repair after Master.

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Pvp space decay ONLY benifets crafters, and adversely effects pilots to a major decree... On several servers it completely killed pvp in space. Its gone and its not coeming back.. the majority of jtls customers dont like it.

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Arryth wrote:

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Rogue1970 wrote:

I agree with you actually - as a shipwright and a pilot.

I think decay should only effect the HITPOINTS of components and PvP/Deep Space decay should return as it was at launch. If they expect to encourage space PvP, implement an insurance system like on the ground to limit decay.

Decaying both armor and hitpoints seems stupid to me - why even have hitpoints as a craftable line item or stat? The armor will be gone long before the hipoints are, making the item so vulnerable to attack it's silly to continue using it. It also make the use of 'good armor' almost pointelss due to the high costs.

People using the Deep Space ticket for a free repair are exploiting the system anwyay, as they aren't just using it for Deep Space repairs - but ANY repair after Master.

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Pvp space decay ONLY benifets crafters, and adversely effects pilots to a major decree... On several servers it completely killed pvp in space. Its gone and its not coeming back.. the majority of jtls customers dont like it.

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You keep saying it's gone and not comming back, as of last night, it still existed in every space zone in the galaxy except deepspace.

Like a number of pilot shipwrights have said, this is a GOOD thing. It promotes large scale space battles, something that I like to see happening, and like to participate in.

As for the rest of the galaxy, it still does (and should) apply. If you are overt, you know the risks. Decay exists on every other item in the game, why should space be any different?

Saying that, my Trabant has not decayed at all....solid Soviet engineering at its best

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ExcaliburCH wrote:

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Rogue1970 wrote:

People using the Deep Space ticket for a free repair are exploiting the system anwyay, as they aren't just using it for Deep Space repairs - but ANY repair after Master.

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I wouldn't call that an exploit. I would call it a bad design and not thought to the end. Either the devs don't believe in our inteligence or they believe that we are 100% honest with every aspect of this game. Pick one

cheers
Exi

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I agree but how many people used the shuttle bug to have never ending vehicle repairs and vehicle un-disabling, and how long did it take them to fix it lol

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Scoooter wrote:

Ok lets break down the situation based on what was learned in the ground game and also space

A percentage of the commmunity like pvp only

A percentage of the commmunity like pve only

A percentage of the commmunity like pve and pvp

I like both PVE and PVP. But I dont pvp in space much because the system is borked

In PVE you eran credits and loot, so you can easil pay for decay

In PVP you dont earn anything, so you cannot pay for decay

Now if you have decay in PVP you are forcing the PVP only crowd to farm PVE which is not an enjoyment to them.

Now look at what implimenting decay in the ground did. Caused pvp to grind to a halt because the hardcore pvpers like their pvp and do not like PVE unless they have to. So they altered it on ground that if you insure there is zero decay.

They did that rather than alienate the majority of the community offering a system with high risk and no reward. The hardcore pvp community is not the majority but if you combine it with the community that likes both it is.

Now decay in ground added to what the AS and tailor needed to make. However the decreased income from not having decay in pvp did not hurt them.

When you consider a BER 13 on a 50% spot mines at 0.5 cpu and the SW's are selling components and chassis at 4-10 cpu the SW's are making enough and will continue to make enough without having PVP decay.

I ask you waht makes more sense

Decay being in Med Risk, Med Reward or decay being in High risk NO reward.

Decay in PVP means no PVP because people just wont do somethnig at high risk but no reward.

In fact the no decay in PVP should be expanded to encompass all zones. Since zones are mixed all they have to do is keep track of how much damage was taken in pve versus pvp and if the pve damage was more then decay.

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Good points well made, however these is a pvp arena with no decay already. People like risk, it makes it fun, I admit the decay needs to be sensible, insurance implementation calling??

Im also willing to bet there is a much larger number of people wanting to PvP in space...

We need a rating system with ranks, period, im sick of counting mine and lobbing it in my sig

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Chiwawa wrote:


Good points well made, however these is a pvp arena with no decay already. People like risk, it makes it fun, I admit the decay needs to be sensible, insurance implementation calling??

Im also willing to bet there is a much larger number of people wanting to PvP in space...

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Taalin wrote:

Taking away the decay factor to make PvP more alluring is a quick fix, but not the true solution. We need both risk and reason to PvP (or do anything really). Currently, we have neither. In essence, it's just something fun to do with no real penalties attached to "losing" a battle. We're getting past the JTL honeymoon period where things are cool because they're new. We need a good decay system and we also need a real reason to be in space.

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Taalin wrote:

Taking away the decay factor to make PvP more alluring is a quick fix, but not the true solution. We need both risk and reason to PvP (or do anything really). Currently, we have neither. In essence, it's just something fun to do with no real penalties attached to "losing" a battle. We're getting past the JTL honeymoon period where things are cool because they're new. We need a good decay system and we also need a real reason to be in space.

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We do not need a decay system.. There is no good pilot benefiting reson to have one.

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Chiwawa wrote:
We need a rating system with ranks, period, im sick of counting mine and lobbing it in my sig

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You count that stuff... Man you are a narcisist...

Just messing with ya...