Shipwright Archive
Thread: Your 6k Kimogila
Niacia wrote:
DingoBoi wrote:
DarthLithic wrote:
I've been flamed, 1 stared, and generally been bad-mouthed for days because I don't over inflate my prices either. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person that's trying to do what they feel is right. Like Tlk says, it's a free economy. I will continue to sell what I have at a price I feel is fair.
no, you get flamed because you sell below resource value. Say you aren't a resource seller all you want, but try selling your product without putting resources into it. ain't gonna happen.
But it is a free economy and you have the right to be stupid.
Please watch your language.
Calling somebody stupid, is no good form. Even if you do not share his view. If he can afford to sell at a low price and is having fun doing so, why should he not sell at this price? Because I, an other shipwrights now have to deal with idiots who don't understand why we charge more than 1cpu for stuff. Sure, he might be able to sell his resources for more credits. But he might not have so much fun doing this. And he might not have a use for credits either. So why is it stupid to sell at a price he is comfortable with? it's not realistic, it's not logic and I didn't call him stupid. I said he had the right to be stupid. But i'll amend that. He has the right to be a stupid griefer, because that's what he is doing.,
Regards
Niacia
Some shipwrights aren't in it just for the money. They have other priorities. They have other methods that let them sell for less. They're a shipwright because they enjoy crafting, or like helping the poorer and newer players, or they like custom-fitting ships for themselves and others, or they just picked up the chassis line because resource quality doesn't matter, it costs a minimal amount to harvest materials, and they can undercut everyone around and still make a profit. They're not going to go bankrupt and they're not going to leave.
Deal with it. We all have to. Calling them stupid for not having the exact same business model and reasons for playing shipwright is childish and only hurts the few valid points in this neverending debate.
TomoRainer wrote:
Dingo, I'm not a lowballer myself, but your posts in this thread are getting more and more obnoxious.
Some shipwrights aren't in it just for the money. They have other priorities. They have other methods that let them sell for less. They're a shipwright because they enjoy crafting, or like helping the poorer and newer players, or they like custom-fitting ships for themselves and others, or they just picked up the chassis line because resource quality doesn't matter, it costs a minimal amount to harvest materials, and they can undercut everyone around and still make a profit. They're not going to go bankrupt and they're not going to leave.
Deal with it. We all have to. Calling them stupid for not having the exact same business model and reasons for playing shipwright is childish and only hurts the few valid points in this neverending debate.
If you really believe that quality doesn't matter in chassis, you are making crap ships. I've often lamented not using better resources in my personal ship, because I cant get a great part to fit, as it's 1k over my mass limit, and would require me to unequip my DI, or countermeasures. That 5k difference between using mediocre and great quality goods is huge when it comes time to outfit your ship with custom parts.
DarthLithic wrote:Just shows the greed.
moody628 wrote:I love buying a Tier 2 ship for 6k and turning right around and selling it for 250k within 48 hours. And that's my grinding price. My "I took time and care to craft this with the best resources possible" price is 384k for that ship... but nobody's calling for that yet.Even better was the 6k Ixiyen that went for 500k, but I've only caught one of those on the bazaar so far.The nice thing about this is that it greatly reduces the time and resources I have to spend on my basic chassis stock, freeing me up for missile packs and weapons systems that are flying out the door like hotcakes.
No it doesn't, shows he's paying attention. A ship that took almost 20k in resources, put on the bazaar for 6k. Who in their right mind wouldn't jump on it? I've caught a couple like that... straight to my vendor whistling all the way. Hell, put in on your vendor for 1 cpu, which is a crime, and still make 14k??? How is that showing the greed.
Some of you people are just p!ssed at shipwrights no matter what. My prices are 4 cpu for chassis, an incredibly low price for a crafted item. And even I still hear this bull___. Stick with your free novice ship or take up SW and make it yourself.
There are a lot of us who will make you a ship for a very low fee if you bring us the resources. NO ONE of you price complaining PUNKS ever does this. WHY? Because the resources are Damn expensive right now. YOu want to complain about ship prices, talk to the Devs or the resource vendors, not us.
KabaI wrote:
If you really believe that quality doesn't matter in chassis, you are making crap ships. I've often lamented not using better resources in my personal ship, because I cant get a great part to fit, as it's 1k over my mass limit, and would require me to unequip my DI, or countermeasures. That 5k difference between using mediocre and great quality goods is huge when it comes time to outfit your ship with custom parts.
You raise a valid point here, but allow me to play 'Devil's advocate' for a moment.
If these ships are 'cr@p' with low mass and whatnot - how is it not gouging a customer to turn it around at a higher price point? Perhaps the ship was being sold low for a reason?
I don't know - it doesn't carry 'straight' across, but it's reminiscent of used car 'lemon lots'.
4Bidden wrote:
People like this either quickly change their mind, or give up the profession.. You are basically sellingchassis at cost.. I will tell you why, and I will be detailed.
I am assuming you are a merchant with "Efficiency 4" skill to reduce maintenance cost on a heavy mineral harvester to 72 cr/hr..power isnt effected and remains 75 units/hr. With that in mind I'm also assuming the harvesters are BER 13 and are on a high % area..lets say 85%. With those "assumptions" in mine, I can come up with some pretty accurate calculations. That harvester would be using 1728 credits and using 1800 units of power, per day. That harvester would be pulling 15912 units per day and your "break " cost per unit would be 0.1080cpu. The calculations I just did excluded the cost of power..
Now, with that in mind, you mentioned you sellnovice chassis (which take 5k in resources) for a nice price of 5k.The cost to make that shipwith the assumptions above would be542.5 credits, andthe profit would be 4457.5
A tier1chassis (15k in resources) would cost 1620 credits to make... w/ cost of power: 1735.5
A tier 2 chassis (30k in resources) would cost 3240 credits to make... w/cost of power: 3471
A tier3 chassis (60k in resources) would cost6480 credits to make... w/cost of power: 6942
A tier4 chassis (80k in resources) would cost 8640 credits to make... w/cost of power: 9256
Master chassis (150k in resources) would cost16200 credits to make... w/cost of power: 17355
With all this in mind, it may seem that you could be making a pretty good profit still.. But, you also have travel expenses, vendor expenses, and the expense of the structure the vendors are in. On top of that, you also have figure in the cost of power.... If you harvest your own power (BER 14 fusion on a 90% spot),the "break even"cost per unit goes from 0.1080 to 0.1157
I think I was pretty fare in my calculations. I allowed for high % resource areas to give good yield. I also factored in the maintenance reduction efficiency 4 would give. Now, if any of those %'s are lower than the ones I mentioned above, your cost per unit goes up. Example, if you are on a 70% area, your cost goes up to 0.1405 (w/power cost).
I dont know about everyone else, but I value my time. I feel if I have to sit infront of a crafting station for long periods of time, the customer should pay for some of that.. I charge 5cpu for all ship chassis. Now that is a factor that cant be figured in, cause Its different for everyone.
- Has an understanding of "Cost of doing business"
- Hasn't developed a case of extreme amnesia when loading up the game, losing that understanding.
You even caught the fundamental problem with game economies at the end: for some people, their time has no value. I'm not saying that they're worthless people. I'm saying that they don't put any ingame monetary value on what they do because they find worth in the activity from something other than credits. 5 stars for you.
Where the real problem comes in is when the various types of peoplemeet in the economy. It's be better to refer to that 'meeting' as a collison between a tanker filled with nitroglycerin and an oil refinery. To provide an answer to Rodney King's famed catchphrase: No, we can't all just get along.
But then that's part of the game too 
Btw, I seriously suspect that while you could do do a detailed cost analysis of manufacturing ships most people in these games analyze their costs about as much as they analyze dog crap on the sidewalk. They 'balance' their books by looking at their bank amount at the end of the day and going "Since I don't have less money than when I started, I'm making a profit!". Those people scare me because I've seen them sell items made from resources at 1 <insert game's money> above 'cost'.
It's the equivalent of someone in the real world saying "Well if I could gather all the resources myself I'd manufacture and sell cars for $1 above my rent, utilities and other living costs".
You are missing the point. These people are selling their products for EXACTLY , the amoumt, the RAW RESOURCES would sell at.
they are NOT jacking up prices..
I was selling at 5cpu but when I started running out or resourses I was forced to buy from the comunity. Thats when alot of others felt the same resourse drain. The comunity started selling resourses for higher and higher prices some vendors (Prosperity-Valcyn server) were selling for 8-10 cpu. Thats when I stoped crafting(and buying resourses)till my harvesters got cought up. My sales have droped (no worries) and now I can reduces my prices. People were mad at me for selling my ships at the 10cpu price, I informed them it was due to the prices of the resourses and gave them wp to the vendors so they could se for them selves. I also gave them WP to other SW so they could compare prices. Hey, I try to be fair some of the other SW were selling for a lower price than me and I did loose some sales but in the end I was fair and some of the customers I lost ocationaly stop by my shop and buy parts. (helps that my alt sells droids too).
Message Edited by BadKarma777 on 11-19-2004 03:10 PM
DarthLithic wrote:
Just shows the greed.
moody628 wrote:
I love buying a Tier2 ship for 6k and turning right around and selling it for 250k within 48 hours. And that's my grinding price. My "I took time and care to craft this with the best resources possible" priceis 384k for that ship... but nobody's calling for that yet.
Even better was the 6k Ixiyen that went for 500k, but I've only caught one of those on the bazaar so far.
The nice thing about this is that it greatly reduces the time and resources I have to spend on my basic chassis stock, freeing me up for missile packs and weapons systems that are flying out the door like hotcakes.
I have no problems with up and coming Shipwrights selling their wares for less. Not everyone has the resources to practice away everything until they hit master. It's the masters who are selling for 2cpu and see this as some kind of moral victory that I have a problem with. I submit that they are the greedy ones, flooding the market with their purposefully inferior crap just to make a quick credit on the back of a new profession, not the Shipwrights who sell their product for a price that compensates them for more than just the resources that actually went into the thing.
Belicose wrote:
Hey, I'm trying to sell chassis blueprints for 3cr/resource. If any of you high rollers want to buy me out on Kettemore my shop is:
Server: Kettemore
Price: 3cpu
Location: -3723 3491 Outside Theed
All I'm really looking for right now is funding my climb to MSW. Heck, if you want something specific email Scovio. 3cpu, and I currently have spaceframe engineering 3.