Shipwright Archive

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HEGEWIZARD wrote:

I was selling at 5cpu but when I started running out or resourses I was forced to buy from the comunity. Thats when alot of others felt the same resourse drain. The comunity started selling resourses for higher and higher prices some vendors (Prosperity-Valcyn server) were selling for 8-10 cpu. Thats when I stoped crafting(and buying resourses)till my harvesters got cought up. My sales have droped (no worries) and now I can reduces my prices. People were mad at me for selling my ships at the 10cpu price, I informed them it was due to the prices of the resourses and gave them wp to the vendors so they could se for them selves. I also gave them WP to other SW so they could compare prices. Hey, I try to be fair some of the other SW were selling for a lower price than me and I did loose some sales but in the end I was fair and some of the customers I lost ocationaly stop by my shop and buy parts. (helps that my alt sells droids too).

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Little-Green-Guy wrote:
I disagree w/your economics statement. This game would server as a great model for an economics class (even though it does not resemble IRL).

All the basic and advanced Economic Principles are present on the SWG servers: supply/demand, oligapolies, monopolies (kinda), etc, etc.

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This is true, and at the same time, it is not true. Credits (like Money) do not really have an intrinsic value. What makes money necessary and worthwhile, is what I can do with it.

And here the differences between RL and any MMORG start. In RL I need money, just to survive (at least in our comunity). In an MMORG a char cannot really die. Therefore, a char does not have ANY expenses, he is forced to have. In theory somebody could sample all the resources needed to craft a star ship. Well maybe, time between resource shifts would not allow for a master ship, but apart from this, it would be possible.

So, what is the value of money in an MMORG? For most people the reason, they are playing an MMORG is having fun. Money can help having this fun. Because I can use money to buy bufs, that allow me to beat a dungeon, I could not otherwise. Because I can buy stuff, I do not want to build myself.

Now, a pure crafter who is not interested in combat does not have many expenses. People who use their crafter to support a combat char do. I am playing a pure crafter, SW, MDE, Master Artisan, a litle Entertainer, Pilot. The money I need to support this char consist of the maintainance fees. There is other stuff, I like to buy, but not that much.

So for me, money can buy only so much fun. On the other hand, i like crafting. I also like helping newbie players. I like chatting with customers. This is fun for me. I can maximize this fun by selling at low prices. Especially the helping newbie players part of the fun.

So rising the prices would reduce my fun. Although it would increase the money I make. And this is where RL economy and SWG economy will never work the same way.

Maximizing my profit (Game: Fun, RL: Ability to survive and after that fun), will take different aproaches for me in RL and within the game.

And this is, why some of the "lowballers" will survive. Having said this, I am a little more expensive then Tlk, but less expensive the many other SWs out there.

Regards

Niacia

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Scythe wrote:

Tlk...quite frankly I don't think that ANY profession should be considered a "service" profession, and I'm offended by your insinuation that I "service" the SWG community. Why should I spend my hard earned credits so that others don't have to? Ships should cost what I pay in resources, be it harvested myself or purchased, PLUS the time I put into getting said resources. I've been on for 5 hours shopping for resources and maintaining my harvestors, and then I"ll probably spend an hour or so crafting the items themselves since I can't make a schematic and put it in a factory for chassis or main components. Why then should I operate at a close profit margin or a loss for my time investment? If you want to waste your time, that's fine by me. Please cease and desist however, such that the rest of us might be able to maintain our hard earned credits.

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Any crafter profession is a service profession as are medical professions or entertainers. These players provide a service to other players.

Of course, this does not mean, these players should provide this service for free.

Regards

Niacia

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DarthLithic wrote:

I've been flamed, 1 stared, and generally been bad-mouthed for days because I don't over inflate my prices either. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person that's trying to do what they feel is right. Like Tlk says, it's a free economy. I will continue to sell what I have at a price I feel is fair.

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DingoBoi wrote:

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DarthLithic wrote:

I've been flamed, 1 stared, and generally been bad-mouthed for days because I don't over inflate my prices either. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person that's trying to do what they feel is right. Like Tlk says, it's a free economy. I will continue to sell what I have at a price I feel is fair.

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no, you get flamed because you sell below resource value. Say you aren't a resource seller all you want, but try selling your product without putting resources into it. ain't gonna happen.

But it is a free economy and you have the right to be stupid.

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Please watch your language.
Calling somebody stupid, is no good form. Even if you do not share his view. If he can afford to sell at a low price and is having fun doing so, why should he not sell at this price?

Sure, he might be able to sell his resources for more credits. But he might not have so much fun doing this. And he might not have a use for credits either. So why is it stupid to sell at a price he is comfortable with?

Regards

Niacia

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Rhysen wrote:

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4Bidden wrote:

People like this either quickly change their mind, or give up the profession.. You are basically sellingchassis at cost.. I will tell you why, and I will be detailed.

I am assuming you are a merchant with "Efficiency 4" skill to reduce maintenance cost on a heavy mineral harvester to 72 cr/hr..power isnt effected and remains 75 units/hr. With that in mind I'm also assuming the harvesters are BER 13 and are on a high % area..lets say 85%. With those "assumptions" in mine, I can come up with some pretty accurate calculations. That harvester would be using 1728 credits and using 1800 units of power, per day. That harvester would be pulling 15912 units per day and your "break " cost per unit would be 0.1080cpu. The calculations I just did excluded the cost of power..

Now, with that in mind, you mentioned you sellnovice chassis (which take 5k in resources) for a nice price of 5k.The cost to make that shipwith the assumptions above would be542.5 credits, andthe profit would be 4457.5

A tier1chassis (15k in resources) would cost 1620 credits to make... w/ cost of power: 1735.5

A tier 2 chassis (30k in resources) would cost 3240 credits to make... w/cost of power: 3471

A tier3 chassis (60k in resources) would cost6480 credits to make... w/cost of power: 6942

A tier4 chassis (80k in resources) would cost 8640 credits to make... w/cost of power: 9256

Master chassis (150k in resources) would cost16200 credits to make... w/cost of power: 17355

With all this in mind, it may seem that you could be making a pretty good profit still.. But, you also have travel expenses, vendor expenses, and the expense of the structure the vendors are in. On top of that, you also have figure in the cost of power.... If you harvest your own power (BER 14 fusion on a 90% spot),the "break even"cost per unit goes from 0.1080 to 0.1157

I think I was pretty fare in my calculations. I allowed for high % resource areas to give good yield. I also factored in the maintenance reduction efficiency 4 would give. Now, if any of those %'s are lower than the ones I mentioned above, your cost per unit goes up. Example, if you are on a 70% area, your cost goes up to 0.1405 (w/power cost).

I dont know about everyone else, but I value my time. I feel if I have to sit infront of a crafting station for long periods of time, the customer should pay for some of that.. I charge 5cpu for all ship chassis. Now that is a factor that cant be figured in, cause Its different for everyone.

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Scary... a person in a MMOG who:

1. Has an understanding of "Cost of doing business"


2. Hasn't developed a case of extreme amnesia when loading up the game, losing that understanding.

You even caught the fundamental problem with game economies at the end: for some people, their time has no value. I'm not saying that they're worthless people. I'm saying that they don't put any ingame monetary value on what they do because they find worth in the activity from something other than credits. 5 stars for you.

Where the real problem comes in is when the various types of peoplemeet in the economy. It's be better to refer to that 'meeting' as a collison between a tanker filled with nitroglycerin and an oil refinery. To provide an answer to Rodney King's famed catchphrase: No, we can't all just get along.

But then that's part of the game too

Btw, I seriously suspect that while you could do do a detailed cost analysis of manufacturing ships most people in these games analyze their costs about as much as they analyze dog crap on the sidewalk. They 'balance' their books by looking at their bank amount at the end of the day and going "Since I don't have less money than when I started, I'm making a profit!". Those people scare me because I've seen them sell items made from resources at 1 above 'cost'.

It's the equivalent of someone in the real world saying "Well if I could gather all the resources myself I'd manufacture and sell cars for $1 above my rent, utilities and other living costs".

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excellent point..people....unless your 42 years of age and virgin(living @ your mother's home - in her basement) your IRL time has to be worth something to you.

lmao

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Little-Green-Guy wrote:

excellent point..people....unless your 42 years of age and virgin (living @ your mother's home - in her basement) your IRL time has to be worth something to you.

lmao

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It sure is. And this is why I sell at low prices . However, I only got a small business. I am not a major shipwright, nor do I intend to be one. I do not advertize, but I have enough return customers. It is just the way I like it.

Regards

Niacia