Shipwright Archive

Thread: Publish 11.4, Starterships can be upgraded

Ducimus
Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:43 am
#27

ok, so then why the big tissy fit about upgradeable starter ships again?

I would think extending the life of the startership to give a newbie pilot more time to earn the cash to be able to afford your ridiculous prices would be something of a indirect bennfit to you.

Why would you seek to deny something that helps newbie pilots to save up the cash to be able to afford your wares? I find it hard to beleive that SW's are THAT greedy.

Poor pilots make poor customers.



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ExcaliburCH
Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:50 am
#28

You didn't get the point, did you? When JTL started, there was a reason that those starterships were not meant to be upgraded. What is a craftable startership good for, when there is no need?

And as I said in my first posting of this thread, I don't need to craft starterships anymore. But Novice Shipwrighter have to craft them. But why should I repeat all that, when you just have to back to the start of this topic and can read it by yourself?

But what I'm not sure of it is, if you are a SW by yourself or if you are only insulting SW's which believe, their prizes fits perfectly. Or if you ever were in an artisan profession.

cheers
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fix those bugs first
thecolonelcardaks
Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:07 am
#29


I really don't see what you guys are complaining about! It is very easy to move up to tier 1 to get a good ship and be honest, how many of those stupid starter ships did you actually sell? I sold ONE and that was for half price on the friggin bazaar. I have like 10 on my vendor. BOOOHOOOO.


And would everyone PLEASE stop complaining about the prices for ships. Become shipwright and make em yourself if you don't like it, because I am running at a loss right now... without space missions, I would never be able to be a shipwright (i started this char from scratch because of Ithorian)


Blah.


oh, and FYI, I charge a VERY reasonable 4 cpu for chassis and 15 cpu for components and if I make a mistake on crafting a chassis/component (ie get a low exp result, crit failure, pre-patched version, etc) i usually cut the price by 30% or more. So, there ARE reasonable SW's out there.

Message Edited by thecolonelcardaks on 12-07-2004 10:15 AM



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Arialias
Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:11 am
#30

Ya know when I hearda bout shipwright I had such high hops for the profession. But as things go my hopes get diminished in a daily basis. The biggest problem is you the customer telling me what I should and shoud'nt charge.


Lets not forget a few things here allright. The Economy is alreay under way in SOE. It has been established for well over a year. Now I need resources just like any crafter and it is a race to get the best resources. Now lets assume there is some nice steel up for auction that willlet me make some nice ships and I start to bid on it. But the armorsmith sees this auction also and he wants the same steel. So I have to compete with him for it. Now the armorsmith generally sells his wears upwards of 200>CPU plus. How am I suppose to compete with people like that.


Chefs AVG 50 CPU

WEAPONSMITHS 200 CPU

ARMORSMITHS 200>UP TO 2000 CPU

ARCHITECT 5 CPU.

SHIPWRIGHT ANYTHING ABOVE 5 CPU AND WE ARE RIPPING THE COMMUNITY OFF


The really funny thing is the professions that craft goods that you need on a weekly basis are the most expensive. And the ones that once you buy it( no PVP decay in deep space) get yelled at the most.


Start boycottin the other profession before you even start talking about that I charge to much for my wears. A master lcl shassis takes ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND RESORUCES TOTAL,Your fwg5 taks 92



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rexan
Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:35 am
#31






Vaxon wrote:


You have exactly the same arguments the other smiths do.. It isn't my fault, I need to charge this much to get good resources.

the resource doesn't know if it is good or not, it is going to spawn just like other resources. As a crafter/harvester, you need to jump on the chance when it happens, so you don't have to buy it from some gouger trying to screw everyone.

You already said that you have a newtwork of friends/guildies that harvest for you, so unless you are overpaying your friends, you are screwing your clients. In your case you don't even need to compete with other smiths because these are your friends/guildies.

Most people would be happy to pay reasonable prices for reasonable hardware and not have to deal with the super 200%+ prices that gets you 5% better hardware.






Here is what you fail to grasp in this game. Yes, it costs the same about to harvest a 50 Overall Quality resource as it does to harvest a 1000 OQ resource. However, if you place both these resources on a vendor at the same price guess what? The 1000 OQ resource will all sell out before you sell one unit of the 50 OQ resource. Its simple economics.


Supply and Demand.


Given there is a greater demand for the higher quality resource, its supply will be depleted before the supply of the lower OQ resource. Therefore, miners can and will charge higher CPU for higher quality resources.


I harvest my own resources. I harvest only quality resources. Why should I sell you a starship for 4cpu (which you already think is too high) when I can easly sell my resources for 5-7cpu on the open market? The answer is that I shouldn't. And I don't.




Rexan Ryu
Master Smuggler
Flurry Server
Bumpinthedark
Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:42 am
#32

All in all i gotta say I'm not overjoyed about the upgradeable starter ship. I am a novice shipwright trying to get my first teir of chassis's. I'm almost broke because of the amount of money i have to put into harvestors to get resources. Nobody is buying any of my ship right now because i can only afford mediocre resources, unless if find a good site and can get setup before uberharvestors take it over completely. My ships are mediocre. My prices are mediocre. I sell basic ships for as low as 5k yes that is 1CPU. And yet im being underbid, in some cases by master Shipwrights, and now all players get my product for free. I am useless now until i can get chassis 1, which will require money for the resources. Basically unless this new ship has some kind of MAJOR flaw I will have to live from one day to the next on cash funds trying DESPERATELY to earn enough to lvl my chassis. Giving players a way to hyp from one planet to another is great for them, but now the only ships i can make are useless since everyone gets that automatically.


Anyways as a novice SW i can safely say im not price gouging anyone! I'd be broke if i was! Instead i'm having to gouge myself in the hopes that even ONE of my ships will sell.
Vaxon
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:00 pm
#33



rexan wrote:


Vaxon wrote:


You have exactly the same arguments the other smiths do.. It isn't my fault, I need to charge this much to get good resources.

the resource doesn't know if it is good or not, it is going to spawn just like other resources. As a crafter/harvester, you need to jump on the chance when it happens, so you don't have to buy it from some gouger trying to screw everyone.

You already said that you have a newtwork of friends/guildies that harvest for you, so unless you are overpaying your friends, you are screwing your clients. In your case you don't even need to compete with other smiths because these are your friends/guildies.

Most people would be happy to pay reasonable prices for reasonable hardware and not have to deal with the super 200%+ prices that gets you 5% better hardware.



Here is what you fail to grasp in this game. Yes, it costs the same about to harvest a 50 Overall Quality resource as it does to harvest a 1000 OQ resource. However, if you place both these resources on a vendor at the same price guess what? The 1000 OQ resource will all sell out before you sell one unit of the 50 OQ resource. Its simple economics.

Supply and Demand.

Given there is a greater demand for the higher quality resource, its supply will be depleted before the supply of the lower OQ resource. Therefore, miners can and will charge higher CPU for higher quality resources.

I harvest my own resources. I harvest only quality resources. Why should I sell you a starship for 4cpu (which you already think is too high) when I can easly sell my resources for 5-7cpu on the open market? The answer is that I shouldn't. And I don't.







You can charge the insane prices now for this, but that still doesn't make them insane prices. I am also not saying that prices shouldn't be different for high quality, but there isn't any reason to spend 4+ cpu on something that costs .5 credits worse case to get.

grind should be 1-1.5 maybe 2, good quality should be 2-3 maybe 4 at the worse case. If you are harvesting your own stuff, then you can make a huge profit charging reasonable prices. If you are just going for cash, then you are increasing the problem, and fall under the money grubbing header mentioned above. If you are fine with that, then so be it, it doesn't change the facts though.

Someone else mentioned boycoting smiths that way oversell their stuff, I do that in general, and am able to find reasonable prices on most everything I buy. I also stick with those vendors when I find them, which is what economy is all about, creating repeat business.
thecolonelcardaks
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:06 pm
#34

Hey Bump, make yourself some personal harvesters (you can put 10 out) put 3 on steel, 2 on ore, and 1 on all the other minerals you need and 2 wind harvesters. You should be able to make about 2-3 ships a day. You can get the startup money from doing the space missions. I started from scratch and thats how i did it. I didn't sell a damn thing and dont expect too... noone needs any of that low level crap anyway, and if they did, they would go to a master, who for the same price will sell one fully experimented. It is the same with EVERY crafting profession unless you played way back around launch. You always buy stuff you need from the masters. STOP COMPLAINING! It is very rare to turn a profit in any profession before you have mastered or have at least advanced to a level 4 in the desired tree. Come on people.



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MoonlghtKnt
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:07 pm
#35






Vaxon wrote:



I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.


Yeah, there is a good reason... it's a STARTER ship... that's the whole reason why it SHOULDN'T be upgradeable... you should be looking to trash that thing as fast as possible and buy a real CRAFTED ship. Shipwrights ARE overcharging for starter chassis on all servers ATM, and that should stop. I've seen them go for 6k on Scylla and that's just ridiculous ( and I don't want to hear anyone griping about the resources it takes... drop a harvester in a high percentage ore location for a couple hours and you'll do fine). Tier 1 ship chassis should sell for 1k tops.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.


We do have practical knowledge of this... I'm sure most of the shipwrights are pilots as well and have seen the stats on the starter ship... they are low, but they are still functional, which is exactly what a starter ship should be... just enough to get you in the air.


Looking at my starer ship on Valcyn I see this:


11k Mass


8k energy


800 Chassis


This ship would not carry me far into piloting and it would be a while before I could earn enough creds to pay the high (and rightly so) amount for the next best ship chassis (A Y-Wing since I'm a Rebel pilot).


Besides... to say that shipwrights "did this to themselves is absurd... despite the fact that SOME of us do charge 6k ( I don't, but I've seen it) alot of people are bring those prices down even under 1k (I've even seen 100 creds for a new chassis).


I'm willing to bet the complaint was not about the shipwrights, but the chassis dealer charging 15k which most newbs don't have.










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MrHawat
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:16 pm
#36


I am both a pilot and a shipwright. I do not like the idea but it does not have an impact on me one way or the other. I used the old starter ship to get to 1111. This was on a new server with no friends yet. I think I had about 500k by then from credits and selling the loot. I bought one of the old sized Dunelizards and equipped it with the good stuff that I looted and kept. I think it cost me 70k total. I am now 4433 pilot and I am still using it.


As a shipwright, I am still in the hole. I play on a server I am established on and have not made 500k yet. Lets see large harvesters sell for around 150k on the server. I need 8 mineral harvesters, chemical harvesters, and gas harvesters. I need to use resources that are high in most stats not just one or two. These sell from 5 to 10 cpu with no problem because WS will buy for CD/OQ, Merchant for SR and so on. Even at 5cpu you are looking at 30 million credits for resources to grind, 1.2 million in mineral harvesters, and probably another million in the other harvesters. You need to pay maint and spend hours looking for a good buildable spot for harvesters at least once a week. You have to wait weeks/months for a decent spawn of a the named resources you need. With all that, I sell chassis at 5cpu and components at 10 cpu.


I have played most of the crafting professions. Yes, this hurts the Novice but all the crafting professions that I played you had to waste resources to master because you had to be a Master before you could make anything that could compete with the Masters who sold everything from the profession at better quality.
thecolonelcardaks
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:50 pm
#37

I need to use resources that are high in most stats not just one or two.


Dude, I am not established at all on my server... I had just started shipwright from total scratch and I have made well over 2 million credits, although I have plowed it all back into maintenance and harvesters. Honestly, their isnt too much difference between chassis made with crap materials and those made with good ones. Maybe components, but I have sold mostly chassis. One a week is enough to pay for my harvesters and I subsidize the rest with space missions. I am not sure what your individual circumstances are, but it seems like you must be doing something wrong if your not making ANY money, especially if your established.



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Cafa
Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:52 pm
#38

Gosh you are some lazy people.


By myself, on Tatooine, before buffs, before an AT-ST, I was making 100k a day BEFORE I made Pistoleer the first time.



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Ewach
Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:28 pm
#39

Stop feeding the Vaxon Troll - you can't argue free enterprise with a socialist. They'll never understand.



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