CUEmu - Thread Posts

Jagged-F3l

Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:14 pm

I just have one question:

How do the devs expect SWs to survive. Since the beginning of the game that have touted this philosophy that they would never do anything to hurt the player economy. These changes definitely hurt the player economy.

Contrast this to past changes:

When mounts came out, I didn't see the devs giving players free mounts.

When vehicles came out, I didn't see the devs giving players free vehicles.

When the politician profession came out, I didn't see the devs giving the a player that took up the profession a free city hall.

What's next? A pilot gets a free upgradeable ship, they loot all the components they need from space, and now they have missions.

Now, I will admit that the PvP decay situation parallels the ground game. It does promote PvP. However, I see the devs have repeated all the same mistakes with regards to the GCW in space, so I really don't have too much more to say about this (it would be nice if the GCW had a point--there is no goal; how do we know when someone is winning?)

010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101Jagged' Fel
010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101"The Oppressor"
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throktar23

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:34 pm

#41

I am a master Sullustan SW. I sell all my chassis for 5cpu and i can't seem to sell them at all. I have a great location and have it advertised on the planetary map. I used only really good resources in my ships and I am being told that 5 cpu is to much....I guess now i will just use crappy resources in all my ships because i can make twice as much money just outright selling resources that doing SW. I now have 80 heavy harvesters set up totry and recover the millions of credits i lost on SW.I haven't made a component or chassis in a couple weeks, because all my other chassis are still for sale at 5 cpu using 800-900 oq resources, and i am a money grubber...../sarcasm. I just don't know what to do to keep everyone happy and make a living in the stupid SWG economy.

------------------------------------ Gemini Industries -------------------------------------
Master ShipWright and Miner
Master Sullustan and Master Ithorian
Always more than 6 Million Resources Stocked
Vendors located 900m outside Theed
-4620, 10, 3284
Make drop offs to Gemini Industries Drop-Off Vendor

PetaByte32

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:49 pm

#42

Vaxon wrote:

I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

People like you were what hurt the architect profession so bad. I know because I was one of them complaining about Arches charging to much. Then I actually did the profession and realized they were right.

And as a pilot I made alot of money. You have to actually go out and kill stuff to get the credits. You wont get alot just from the missions. Go find a nice spawn of ships and start shooting.

Tyranus

Yoda: "When I die, the last of the Jedi, you will be!"
Luke: "Really? what about those 50,000 Jedi Masters outside comparing Saber Size?"
Yoda: "Sorry I am, My Bad it is"

Alyxian

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:20 am

#43

Hmm, I am still not sure why people are arguing the "Well for some one just starting it is hard!"

I remember starting this game a long time ago, in what feels like a galaxy far far away

and let me tell you, I was certified for an FWG5 long before I could buy one!

I ground through smuggler with a personal mineral harvester, let me tell you that took a while, because I could not afford a medium.

Yeah, ok, so you actually have to PLAY THE GAME for a few DAYS before you upgrade from Tier 1 to Tier 2 ships!!! Wow, that is so horrible for the new people! God forbid you actually have to look at the ground game, or possibly even start using your lots with your first 60k to get some resources to sell to a ShipWright, or trade a ShipWright the resources for a chassis. It is so horrible that you actually have to become a part of the galaxy community in order to advance! /sarcasm_off

Come on people! Hello!!! Getting started shouldn't be a cake walk. You are owning your own ship! Yes, this is gonna take creds, and yes it is going to take a lot of steel. Think about getting out of High School and trying to buy a car, and then gettin the next one, all the way up toa lambourgini. This is gonna take creds, and hard work!

Is it so unfair that people who have played this game for over a year have an advantage? Is it surprising? Buck up, play the game, don't expect to start a brand new char and be done Master Pilot in a couple weeks. Play the rest of the game, make friends!! Hell you never know, the Carbineer you are hunting with to make some creds, may turn out to be a fun person to play with!! and hey, they might even BE that shipwright you need to make a good deal with.

More play, less whine, less Devs babying people.

-Alyx

Alyxian Gorgaan

"Just an honest Trader"

Will Fly for Booze

Ships, Paint, Missiles, Droids, and More!

Shop located in Tal Kyrte on Lok, in the Mall

StarSider

Bermag

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:23 am

#44

Red-Dwarf wrote:

Hmm, saw this response coming, sorry I couldn't convince anyone

Vaxon - can we all get free novice armoursmith armour and novice weaponsmith weapons, not the CDEF stuff, when we pick up novice marksman or brawler. The issue is that it takes 80,000 units of resource before you can even start selling anything now, an armoursmith will have started making basic Ubese armour by this point.

Most WS and AS will not be able to sell anything before they are master. We SW have it easy, we can start making sellable stuff from Tier 1. or Tier 4 if you are more quality minded.

I think we might even get more proffitable out of this change. Since it is upgradeable people would like to get better component that they have on thier starter ship. Many have probably not bothered to buy a novice ship and waited until they get to tier 1 to upgrade. Now they might start buying components from start.

---
Bermag [SiyBer Arms]

ex-NGE 12 pt Master Weaponsmith/FS Crafting Mastery- Wanderhome
Corellia: (Coronet -200, -5500) Dantooine Imp op -4422 -2383
High quality and low price
Now playing Eve

AngamarBlackrock

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:23 am

#45

You have exactly the same arguments the other smiths do.. It isn't my fault, I need to charge this much to get good resources.

the resource doesn't know if it is good or not, it is going to spawn just like other resources. As a crafter/harvester, you need to jump on the chance when it happens, so you don't have to buy it from some gouger trying to screw everyone.

You already said that you have a newtwork of friends/guildies that harvest for you, so unless you are overpaying your friends, you are screwing your clients. In your case you don't even need to compete with other smiths because these are your friends/guildies.

Most people would be happy to pay reasonable prices for reasonable hardware and not have to deal with the super 200%+ prices that gets you 5% better hardware.

Also, keep in mind that this is only 1 I repeat "1" ship level that this is happening for, after 10-15 grinds for a novice SW, this isn't an issue any longer, and SWs can go back to over charging like every other crafter class does..

I know though, that I for one will not be following this route, I will be using my own harvesters, and those of friends/guildies and sell at reasonable prices because of it. Does this mean I will be out of stock more often, yeah, but in the long run, it also means that I will have people checking my shop first, and I will be one of the first people they buy from before they are forced to go to overcharging people.

The exception to this is of course PvPers or those people that are super rich, and don't care what the price is. But I wont miss those people anyway, because they are not repeat buyers, they go where ever the days best stuff is.

You really have no clue how an economy works, do you? Yes, I can mine my own stuff for cheap. But there is rarity to consider. Not all resources spawn everywhere. Not every spawn location is a 100% location. And most importantly, most resources are not renewable. You get a small window of opportunity to mine what you need before the resource shifts out of phase. And if that is a resource you have to have to make good equipment, then you canlt just go mine something else. You have to go to someone who has a surplus, and that person can charge you whatever the market will bear.

I can dig two holes in the ground and pull iron from one and gold from the other. Its the same effort for me to do both. Should I sell you the gold for the same price as the iron?

Angamar Blackrock

Blackrock Industries, Inc

Mos Imperious - Tatooine

Bermag

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:31 am

#46

CPU is not everything. Time is even more important. Put a price on your time, for example compare it with something else that you get paid for ley say running missions.

That give you a value for your time. Let say the time for naking an item is 10k. If it take the same time to make an item requiring 100k resources or 100 resources then of course that 10k will make the item that take 100 units a lot more expensive if you look at CPU price. That is why wepaons and armor cost a lot more CPU wise than ships or houses/harvesters.

---
Bermag [SiyBer Arms]

ex-NGE 12 pt Master Weaponsmith/FS Crafting Mastery- Wanderhome
Corellia: (Coronet -200, -5500) Dantooine Imp op -4422 -2383
High quality and low price
Now playing Eve

Kalano

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:33 am

#47

Vaxon, i strongly feel you don't have much of an idea on how to earn credits and what it really takes to be a crafter at all.

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever worked a day in your life? I mean, serious job where you got up in the morning, worked at least 8 hours and then got to go home to get ready the next day.

Crafters are the same. Except, they own there own business. They have to work to make it stay in business and make credits. I'm a crafter, and i have had many business tries that have tanked and price wasn't the problem. It was trying to get in a market where i was too weak in skills and schematics to compete and to poor to afford to get any large amount of resources. This long before JTL was even in our minds.

I'm also a pilot. I never had any need to do a ground mission ever. I make enough credits to support my needs. Some days i have to save up a bit, other days i get lucky and score big. If you don't the credits, take more missions, that is what their there for. To earn credits and some more xp. If you don't want to do a mission, go find a tier 1 spawn. I rarely lost a ship to them, and that was if i wasn't paying attention and got swarmed. I failed many missions and retook them, why? Well, i needed more credits to get the parts i need to finish the mission. Only one time had i asked for help, and that was a tier 3 mission that no matter what i had under the chassie would help. I made credits long before they had the chassie broker pay for parts. Now, i buy a bunch of stuff for my ground game while i buy all the ship stuff i need and want.

The trick of being the first tier or two, is to use good loot parts. THERE FREE. Not bad and if your skills improve a little, which mine did, and JTL is my really first main experience in a twichy game, I got many many parts and i rarely died till i got up a tier and was swarmed with higher tier ships.

If i can do it. By all means, any one can do it. Oh, and if you still think they charge to much, then by all means, be a SW yourself. No one is stopping you. Oh, and one last thing, Artisan does nothing for SW, its just a pre-requisite, nothing more, so you only need the one tree, the second does nothing for ya. Please try to get your facts straight.

_______________________________________________________________________

Blah, Blah, Blah, Yackity, Smackity. Its all the same bull, just new packaging

Ithorians do it in stereo - Ikkoso Ylise

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Diorchas

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:07 am

#48

I admit, I don't really understand the Vaxons of the world.

I'm a "money grubbing" resource manager (and Master Shipwright/Merchant. Formerly Master AS and Tailor). I provide a service and goods for the crafting community. If everyone wanted to mine their own resources I'd be out of business. If crafters thought the prices for my goods were high, I'd be out of business. If I were charging "insane" rates for my time and resources I would not have repeat customers and a spotless record of fair and pleasant business dealings.

Vaxon, the animosity generated in the SWG economy comes from people like YOU who piss and moan about a living, breathing, self-regulating economy. It's not like money is difficult to make in this game, so shut up and go EARN the money you swear up and down you can't afford to spend. You like to put the blame on the crafters and miners of the world when, in reality, the people whining are people just like you who can't stand that they can't have exactly what they want at the price they want it WHEN they want it.

If you can't comprehend supply and demand then you have no business talking about economic models. Plain and simple.

ravingbantha

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:33 pm

#49

it's so nice to know all those lowbie ships I have are now completly worthless. Thanks Dev's

Corsican_Ogre

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:10 pm

#50

I am not sure this will be such a bad thing. Starting pilots will of course love it and Starting Shipwrights will be hurt (the ones that are not converted from other crafters) but in truth as the system is they are gonna struggle any way.

The amount of metals and ore in even starter ships are staggering for a novice to the game to try to collect so yes a new player who wants to be a shipwright is going to struggle.

But on the other hand staring pilots will be able to explore and learn the systems with out risking everything they own to go to the higher end systems. This combined with the pvp changes will encourage more pvp participation which I think is a good thing for the game.

Vrailus Novawolf

12 Point Master Armorsmith Master Shipwright Master Merchant

Daragon V Mall At Lake Destiny (Near Keren) 3125 2819

Astev_Aris

Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:20 pm

#51

Vaxon wrote:

there isn't any reason to spend 4+ cpu on something that costs .5 credits worse case to get.

I hope you never go armor or weapon shopping. Let me rephrase that line for you and put it into perspective as far as WS and AS goes:

"there isn't any reason to spend 200+ cpu on something that costs .5 credits worse case to get."

Now that makes sense. Go complain to your local Weaponsmith that newbies can't afford a good starter gun and see what kind of reaction you get.

The people that this will really kill are the novice SWs hoping to sell their chassis to novice pilots. I charge 30K for a tier 1 chassis and they're selling fine. If I screw up on the experimentation, I drop the price to 15-20K depending on how bad the results are. I don't think that's unreasonable, and if the starter chassisdon't sell, the other chassis do. Novice SW have no options, the have to make the starter ships, and if no one is buying them, this move will further stratify Shipwrights into the masters who can make the best stuff, and the rest who can't sell chassis to save their lives, and thus cannot level without practicing away resources or letting largely unwanted ships stagnate on a vendor

And for all the defenders of the n00bs who claim that this is an outlandish price because new players can't possibly make that kind of money, I want some of what you're smoking. Even as a lowlyartisanin my first week ofthe game, I could make 30-50K in a few hours running crafting missions between Tyrena and Vreni Island. Crafting missions... No armor, buffs or weapons needed. With the shuttle wait reduced to 5 minutes, it should be even faster. Bloody hell, I funded a fledgling city with the money from these missions, and yet n00bs can't afford a starter ship for 30K? Get off your horse, buddy. I'm all for helping new players in my PA and city, and I do it all the time - heavily dicounted prices, custom orders delivered on the promise of future payment, etc., but I won't do that for just anyone.As many have said here before, I will not charge 2cpu for a chassis when I could sell the raw resources for three (or more) times that amount. There is selling at a reasonable rate, and there is shooting yourself in the foot. I think a few people here don't understand the difference.

Bottom line, if you have customers buying your product at the prices you are charging, carry on and don't let the whiners bother you. The people selling at very low cost will either a) go broke, or b) burn out attempting to maintain the harvesters required to generate a sufficient amount of quality resources for SW. Only those who are very established and have a lot of help will be able to maintain such a pricing structure for longer than a few months.

___________________________________________________________________

Astev Aris. (Formerly) Master Artisan/Architect/Shipwright

Founding Mayor of Skyfar (Retired) - Naboo, Bloodfin, -3980 6350.

For those who may be unaware, this is a lame-a$$ sig.

Bumpinthedark

Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:30 pm

#52

I'm sorry to complain on this but novice shipwrights are now screwed royally! The whole masters only make money crap is BS. How am i supposed to pay for harvestors to make ships when in order to get the resoureces needed i need to A: find a good spot, hard enough when people dump so many harvestors in them that unless you have ten you can get anyhting. B: it takes several K of resources to make a basic ship. And C: Pilotswhine about high prices when i see ships for sale for 5K or LESS! That ONE CPU PEOPLE! You pay more fora pistol than a STARSHIP! THis is ridiculous. We put in huge amounts of resources and get the LOWEST pay on ANY artisan elite profession! WT*! And then to make matters worse sony makes the starter ship upgradeable! HOw am i supposed to sell a ship to somebody who already has something better FOR FREE! I think novice shipwrights have a right to complain here. We are the lowest grossing most depedent on recources and the most USELESS profession! Until i have the resources to craft 12-15 ships FOR WHICH I WILL EARN NOTHING i cannot amke a SINGLE sale!

Excuse the overuse of the caps but i think i have a valid concern here.

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