Shipwright Archive

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Vaxon wrote:

They are not useless, people are still going to need them if they blow theirs up too badly.

As for you being charged 4 cpu then you need to find a better dealer. There is no sane reason resources should cost that much. make friends, and throw harvesters down with your account, and friends lots. Give them a deal if they wont just help you with lots they aren't using. Give them discounts or free stuff if they have good harvesters runing for you. Granted this means a little more work for you, finding the resource spawns, and then mailing the wps to friends, but that is better for you, and your clients than overcharging everyone for things. And yes, I do know how many resources go into ships, I am working on harvesting the resources I need now for a SW.

Right now miners can get away with charging super stupid prices for things because smiths are willing to pay super stupid prices for them. If people started harvesting their own stuff, things would change quite a bit. I assume more people will be harvesting more now because missions/grouping have changed, and there is no longer easy money in them.


Also, you talked about prices, how much do you charge for your components? I know many SWs charge 15-30+ cpu for items, That does pretty much fall in line with weapons smiths... so SWs have nothing to complain about there (and yes, I know cap's are better looted, but you still have 9 other compnnents in star ships that you can make well, not including reusables like missles/chaff packs and such.

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Miners are getting away with charging the rates they do due to demand, I emply over 50 miners (friends, guild and otherwise)at the moment and they still cannot keep up with my needs. The entire server sells out of Harvesters at an astounding rate as the average shipwright can go thru millions ofunits easilyin a day. Our parts and chasis take 10 times what other crafts do to make.

As for 15-30cpu parts - well in order to make COMPETITIVE parts (ie: not crap stats) you need the Uber 5-20cpu resources with stelllar stats. These don't spawn every day and are in limited supply. Nobody can make them appear.

With demand as it is for high stat parts - we have no choice but to charge more for parts, otherwise I will gladly craft you a 40 speed engtine you can chug around in space for 5cpu....

If you want a 90 speed engine, it costs me 40k to make it - should I not charge you 60-75K for it?

As I said before, I can charge Armorsmith prices - it'll be 500k for an engine now.

It's not us who gouged prices up, it's the Armorsmiths and Weaponsmithswho started all this -complainto them. They have billions of credits and snag up every Uber resource they see, so nobody can compete with them.

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Rogue1970 wrote:

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Vaxon wrote:

They are not useless, people are still going to need them if they blow theirs up too badly.

As for you being charged 4 cpu then you need to find a better dealer. There is no sane reason resources should cost that much. make friends, and throw harvesters down with your account, and friends lots. Give them a deal if they wont just help you with lots they aren't using. Give them discounts or free stuff if they have good harvesters runing for you. Granted this means a little more work for you, finding the resource spawns, and then mailing the wps to friends, but that is better for you, and your clients than overcharging everyone for things. And yes, I do know how many resources go into ships, I am working on harvesting the resources I need now for a SW.

Right now miners can get away with charging super stupid prices for things because smiths are willing to pay super stupid prices for them. If people started harvesting their own stuff, things would change quite a bit. I assume more people will be harvesting more now because missions/grouping have changed, and there is no longer easy money in them.


Also, you talked about prices, how much do you charge for your components? I know many SWs charge 15-30+ cpu for items, That does pretty much fall in line with weapons smiths... so SWs have nothing to complain about there (and yes, I know cap's are better looted, but you still have 9 other compnnents in star ships that you can make well, not including reusables like missles/chaff packs and such.

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Miners are getting away with charging the rates they do due to demand, I emply over 50 miners (friends, guild and otherwise) at the moment and they still cannot keep up with my needs. The entire server sells out of Harvesters at an astounding rate as the average shipwright can go thru millions of units easily in a day. Our parts and chasis take 10 times what other crafts do to make.

As for 15-30cpu parts - well in order to make COMPETITIVE parts (ie: not crap stats) you need the Uber 5-20cpu resources with stelllar stats. These don't spawn every day and are in limited supply. Nobody can make them appear.

With demand as it is for high stat parts - we have no choice but to charge more for parts, otherwise I will gladly craft you a 40 speed engtine you can chug around in space for 5cpu....

If you want a 90 speed engine, it costs me 40k to make it - should I not charge you 60-75K for it?

As I said before, I can charge Armorsmith prices - it'll be 500k for an engine now.

It's not us who gouged prices up, it's the Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths who started all this - complain to them. They have billions of credits and snag up every Uber resource they see, so nobody can compete with them.

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You have exactly the same arguments the other smiths do.. It isn't my fault, I need to charge this much to get good resources.

the resource doesn't know if it is good or not, it is going to spawn just like other resources. As a crafter/harvester, you need to jump on the chance when it happens, so you don't have to buy it from some gouger trying to screw everyone.

You already said that you have a newtwork of friends/guildies that harvest for you, so unless you are overpaying your friends, you are screwing your clients. In your case you don't even need to compete with other smiths because these are your friends/guildies.

Most people would be happy to pay reasonable prices for reasonable hardware and not have to deal with the super 200%+ prices that gets you 5% better hardware.

Also, keep in mind that this is only 1 I repeat "1" ship level that this is happening for, after 10-15 grinds for a novice SW, this isn't an issue any longer, and SWs can go back to over charging like every other crafter class does..

I know though, that I for one will not be following this route, I will be using my own harvesters, and those of friends/guildies and sell at reasonable prices because of it. Does this mean I will be out of stock more often, yeah, but in the long run, it also means that I will have people checking my shop first, and I will be one of the first people they buy from before they are forced to go to overcharging people.

The exception to this is of course PvPers or those people that are super rich, and don't care what the price is. But I wont miss those people anyway, because they are not repeat buyers, they go where ever the days best stuff is.

well.. the one or the other didn't read my initial posting well enough, it seems.
I don't care about my 20 startershipts within my vendor.. I reached 4 1 3 3 in the meantime and craft relatively good items by now.

And no, I don't buy resources which are higher prized than 4 CPU except they are really, really good! Then I spend the money and I know I will craft a good ship component.

As I also said. If the devs just spent the startships a hyperdrive, so the pilots can travell between the planets with their own ship, that would have been more than enough (from my point of view).

I am talking about the Novice Shipwrighters which just will start or have started. They loose money and they loose also resources.
It takes me almost two days to get my own harvested resources to kraft a Tier 4 ship! So there is no easy going for me to get MSW. But I don't complain about that. I take it easy.

But Novice SW's have to throw away about 50k of resources, because they won't be able to sell it. That will be fact. I'm absolutely sure about it. Before a Novice Pilot destroyes his ship, he will have reach tier1 and will probably get a Y-Wing.

It's just my opinion here. I don't expect, that everybody will agree with me and that is ok.

But not everybody did stockpile resources over resources. I, for example, did not. Even when I knew I will be SW as soon as JTL comes out.

cheers
Exi

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Isrem wrote:

even at half price of 35k, how is a newbie supposed to come up with that? It isn't like JTL is anything you can make good cash at

Having JTL is the easierst way to make cash at all. Any newbie can do it, you need no friends, no buff, just the starter ship you did not pay for. You need not buy any equipment for it nor for your character, the starter ship is enough.
Just do the first mission(s) and stay a while in space training, after an hour or two of playing you will be around 20-50k richer, maybe even more depending on your skill. Just visit the chassis dealer, he will buy all of your loot for 1k per level, and the low level enemies give you a large amount of loot.
And if one is smart try to find a Shipwright, they pay even more. Most pay 2k per level, me even 3k per level.

So don´t tell me newbies could not pay just because you never had the idea of using your loot for something else than just inserting it in your next ship or deleting what you don´t need.

When reading your post I get the impression one should start with the fully equipped master ship because one payed for the game. It is not this way in the ground game and it is not this way in space. You have to work for what you want to earn. And with JTL it is easy enough for no need to complain.

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I never said, nor implied that I think people should not have to work for their ships, but a starter ship isn't where SW's make money, they have said so in this thread already, so for the SW which is an elite profession, not a starter profession like pilot, they will end up wasting some resources. Ever crafter profession does. An artisan isn't able to sell his lowbie junk, nor for the most part can any other elite crafter profession. They need to grind a little bit to get to something useful.

I can't see why people are complaining about this. Even the person that started this thread said he harvested his own, so even at the worse case of .5 CPU you are looking at a WHOLE 37.5K big deal. Worse case is he buys some grind resources from friends at 1-2 cpu, ok, that is a little expensive, but still not a big deal, as it is 70k-140k. He is going to more than make up for this in the long run, even the short run when he starts selling tier 1 ships for 50-100k... at 2 cpu, thats 1-3 cpu profit per ship.

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Harkyn1 wrote:

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ExcaliburCH wrote:
I was just reading through the announcement of Publish 11.4, which will be set live today.
I also read something about it in this forum.

They allow the starterships to be upgraded!!

What does that mean now? Do we still have use of our startships? Does it still make sense to craft them? Does a new novice SW need them only for grinding now?

I'm absolutely unhappy with that change. Not that I need to craft them anymore (still have around 20 in my vendor), but they are of no use to be crafted anymore.

What does a new SW do? He will spend a lot of resources until he reaches the Tier1 chassis, so he can sell them. Until there, it is only a waste of resources and money. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of money only to get there, where I am now. Sure I harvest my own resources. But I still have to buy them.

They better would have spent the startships a hyperdrive, instead of making them upgradeable!

I am complaining here. Yes! This change makes absolutely NO sense!

What is your oppinion?

cheers
Exi

Ps. Don't flame me, because I don't agree with that change.

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No i totaly agree with you. Not only do we lose any revenue from Tier 1 ships chassis, PvPers no longer take permenanet damage in Deep Space so we won't have any PvPer's coming our way too often. (yes yes I know not many PvP now but that's not the point)
Meddigo

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There is no decay in ground based pvp

the decay is so hue in pve for space yuo arent losing much

Right now hardly anyone is pvping and one reason is because of the cost

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Vaxon wrote:

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ExcaliburCH wrote:
I was just reading through the announcement of Publish 11.4, which will be set live today.
I also read something about it in this forum.

They allow the starterships to be upgraded!!

What does that mean now? Do we still have use of our startships? Does it still make sense to craft them? Does a new novice SW need them only for grinding now?

I'm absolutely unhappy with that change. Not that I need to craft them anymore (still have around 20 in my vendor), but they are of no use to be crafted anymore.

What does a new SW do? He will spend a lot of resources until he reaches the Tier1 chassis, so he can sell them. Until there, it is only a waste of resources and money. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of money only to get there, where I am now. Sure I harvest my own resources. But I still have to buy them.

They better would have spent the startships a hyperdrive, instead of making them upgradeable!

I am complaining here. Yes! This change makes absolutely NO sense!

What is your oppinion?

cheers
Exi

Ps. Don't flame me, because I don't agree with that change.

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I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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In specific.

>>I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others...


I think this is exactly why SOE made the startership upgradable.

Any of you guys acutally try to start a new pilot from scratch on a server other than the one you nomrally play on?

It's bloody hard!
It doesnt take long before your 1000 or 11xx and you really can't afford anything. The chassis dealer alone gobbles up 15K for your first ship, let alone what the local money grubbers will ask for.

Vaxon, you missed the point. I did not reply to you but to Excalibur who complained that Newbies would not be able to get the money for what SWs are charging. My first sentence was a quote, I just did not manage to get the brackets around it, i deleted too much

For me I see no problem with the change, I did not craft any ship wihout practice before I reached 4xxx. Yes, there are people who are not "rich" and who would like to sell the starter ships which is now not possible any more at all. But be honest: I was able to buy them from the bazaar for 500 credits lately. Where is the profit on such a sale?
One did not need the player crafted starter ship before, if was just pure luxury to have it, one could do all starter missions with the free starter ship which I did with all 3 factions to test it out (I leveled up to 1111 with it). So there is in principal no change to now because the smart player with few cash did not buy any at all.

One could remove the starter ship from the crafting skills though, since despite using practise there is no need for them now any more. That is what makes me shake my head about the change.

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Scythe wrote:

New player in my guild can crank out a couple hundred K in a few hours doing the tier II duty missions. All he needs is his Y-wing, which I still charge 60k for. 60k is not hard to come by, not with the newbie missions and such. If a player wants his X-wing, just like if a person wants a Chevy Corvette, it's not gonna happen today, learn to save, Mildred!

Call to Shipwrights, let us all charge the profit margin of a Chef or an Armorsmith. If we all do it for a week, maybe it will shut all the newbies and trolls who complain about our prices.

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New player in my guild can crank out a couple hundred K in a few hours doing the tier II duty missions.

There is NO way this can be the case... I do tier 4 duty missions, and see the payout of a whole 300-600 credits a ship, and a loot item once in a while. There is no chance this is reality, I am lucky to get 100K per 500K exp I get. As e point of refference, it takes me about 3-4 hours to hit 1Mil EXP, so it isn't like I am screwing around or taking my time (blah blah, before you say "well, your exping too slow", I don't care if you can get 1 mil quicker, thats what it takes me , and I don't think that is bad)).

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Isrem wrote:
Vaxon, you missed the point. I did not reply to you but to Excalibur who complained that Newbies would not be able to get the money for what SWs are charging. My first sentence was a quote, I just did not manage to get the brackets around it, i deleted too much

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I guess, you mix something up here, hon I never made such a sentence. I just said, that the novice SW won't be able to sell their ships. It doesn't matter if they can compete with MSW for starterships

cheers
Exi

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Scythe wrote:

I take offense to being called a local money grubber.

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Sorry to say, SW's suffer from the repuations of some of their more nafarious collegues.

A dunelizard for example should not cost 75,000 credits. ESPEICLALY if its an older prepatch blueprint!!! Money grubbing is accurate, who in their right mind would expect to sell an outdated dunelizard for that high?! I have not seen many SW's come to the realization that no one wants a ship 15K mass smaller than what is current, and mark down the price on those so theyd sell better. Ive seen them sold as high as 100K, what are you people thinking?!?

I charge 80k for a dunelizard. And they sell just fine..

I'm sure that in the near future the prizes will drop a little bit. But right now, it seems perfectly fine for me to charge 80k. It's not even a 5 CPU charge here.. its something around 4.5 CPU. That isn't that much from my point of view.

cheers
Exi