Shipwright Archive

Thread: Shipwrights Unite!!! Pricing issues

Emenikan
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:26 pm
#27






Yeorg wrote:





Brilyn wrote:

No, but it's a lot of effort.


And someone may not have 110k starting off.



They may be able to afford the Chassis, Engine, Capacitor, Reactor and 1 Gun.


Then they'll do a mission or two to get money. And come back, and buy more.



If I'm sticking the Chassis *deed* in that bag (as opposed to the Blueprint), then I have an additional cost of 25k (and up) that I'm not going to recoup until someone buys that bag. And I don't think I'll be risking that......







Okay, if I have a custom order (I assume this is what you are talking about), then yes I would raise the price a little. But not much more. I mean, come on. 110k for a novice ship deeded form fully equipped with level 1 components. I still think 110k is too much, even for that. Yes, it is a lot of effort, but are we not supposed to put a lot of effort into our profession and make the customer happy. When a player purchases a ship, he should be able to jump into it and go, unless he just wants the blueprints.



Smelli







Yes. When they buy a ship they should be able to jump and go...too bad they are just buying a chassis eh? I have been crafting non stop since JTL was launched...which is a lot of effort...if i put all the components onto a starter ship with the chassis...i would also sell for 110k...maybe more, i mean the shipwright could've been crafting 10 other chassis during that time and made alot more money in doing so. If the customer isn't up to paying that price...theycan go ahead and pay 18 million to grind it out and provide master shipwright quality within the first week of release as i have.





I R WOOKIEE SOLDAT
Master ShipWright -FLooD- Ship Systems
GalacticHustler
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:29 pm
#28

actually the only point in this thread that is important has to do with long term viability of the profession. People say we have no right to say people shouldn't give away ships but we do because we are the ones that actually care about the profession. Lowering the long term viability and then getting out is just another form of griefing no matter how you spin it. It may not be intentional griefing but it achieves the same result. I just wish they raised the barriers to entry even higher to prevent FOTM crafters from ruining yet another prof before it even gets a chance to get off the ground.



Carg Starslayer
The Chef
"Often imitated but never duplicated""


Cargs Cuisine Valcyns #1 source for all things food corellia UAT Mall 972, -5572 only a short bike ride from the coronet starport.


Yeorg
Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:44 pm
#29






Emenikan wrote:






Yeorg wrote:


Okay, if I have a custom order (I assume this is what you are talking about), then yes I would raise the price a little. But not much more. I mean, come on. 110k for a novice ship deeded form fully equipped with level 1 components. I still think 110k is too much, even for that. Yes, it is a lot of effort, but are we not supposed to put a lot of effort into our profession and make the customer happy. When a player purchases a ship, he should be able to jump into it and go, unless he just wants the blueprints.


Smelli



Yes. When they buy a ship they should be able to jump and go...too bad they are just buying a chassis eh? I have been crafting non stop since JTL was launched...which is a lot of effort...if i put all the components onto a starter ship with the chassis...i would also sell for 110k...maybe more, i mean the shipwright could've been crafting 10 other chassis during that time and made alot more money in doing so. If the customer isn't up to paying that price...theycan go ahead and pay 18 million to grind it out and provide master shipwright quality within the first week of release as i have.






Who says it just has to be the chassis. I am not Master Shipwright yet. I just haven't had the time to fully master it with work and all, but I am halfway there.I believe that Master Shipwrightsshould sellcomplete ships (stocked with components). The better the components inside the ships are, the higher the prices are. Custom orders can be taken. Yes, you can also sell chassis, but not at 110k for a Z-95 chassis. Sheesh. Also, components can be sold seperately for those who have bought completed ships and wish to upgrade or adjust any of the components inside their ships.


Smelli


<KD>


moody628
Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:28 pm
#30






Brilyn wrote:

Your mathimatics is bang on.


But lets clear up a completely erroneous assumption:


That we all buy our resources.



Mining one's own resources costs:



Steel at 0.2cpu

Aluminum at 0.2cpu

LGO at 0.2cpu

Inert Petrochem at 0.2cpu



2k of Steel = 400c

1k of Aluminum = 200c

1k of LGO = 200c

1k of Inert Petrochem = 200c






The fact that you grow your own food does not depreciate it's value.


Therefore, the base assumption is not wrong on my part, but rather, wrong on your part. If you don't agree with me, then sell me YOUR resources at the 0.2cpu that you quote. If you won't sell it to me for that, then it's value is actually higher, isn't it?








JOS Outfitters & Supply

Kakita Jammo, Owner

Silent' Bob, Manager

Look for JOS on Tatooine!!!


moody628
Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:33 pm
#31






Lumpi667 wrote:

If you gain one time 10k or 10 times 1k there is no difference, but you will allow others to have more fun, play the game, earn money and come back to you and spend it at your Vendor...

I could imagine that it wouldnt hurt much to sell Tier1 ships for production costs and starter ships on the bazaar or cheap on your Vendor, as they will remember you and come back to buy other stuff like components, ammo, reapair tools higher Tier's ships...







Unfortunately, you've sort of missed the point here. If it costs ME 2k to make the item, and I sell 10 of them for 1k, I've lost 10k. Whereas, if I sell 1 for 10k, then I've made 8k.




JOS Outfitters & Supply

Kakita Jammo, Owner

Silent' Bob, Manager

Look for JOS on Tatooine!!!


moody628
Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:39 pm
#32






Yeorg wrote:



In real life, when you purchase a new vehicle, you don't purchase a blueprint, then take it to a chassis dealer and pay more money to make the chassis, then go find or purchase an engine,wheels, windows, or doors for it. It all comes in one package. Am I the only one seeing the sense in this?


Smelli


Message Edited by Yeorg on 10-30-200411:27 PM


Message Edited by Yeorg on 10-30-2004 11:28 PM




Just as a point of order, if you've ever purchased a NEW car, this is not the case.


There's the price of the car. There's the price of the ABS. There's the price of the power steering and locks. There's the price of the undercoating. There's the price of the sound system upgrade. Yadda, yadda, yadda.








JOS Outfitters & Supply

Kakita Jammo, Owner

Silent' Bob, Manager

Look for JOS on Tatooine!!!


Yeorg
Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:48 pm
#33






moody628 wrote:





Yeorg wrote:



In real life, when you purchase a new vehicle, you don't purchase a blueprint, then take it to a chassis dealer and pay more money to make the chassis, then go find or purchase an engine,wheels, windows, or doors for it. It all comes in one package. Am I the only one seeing the sense in this?


Smelli


Message Edited by Yeorg on 10-30-200411:27 PM


Message Edited by Yeorg on 10-30-2004 11:28 PM




Just as a point of order, if you've ever purchased a NEW car, this is not the case.


There's the price of the car. There's the price of the ABS. There's the price of the power steering and locks. There's the price of the undercoating. There's the price of the sound system upgrade. Yadda, yadda, yadda.











lol, yeah, but my point is, when you are buying a vehicle from a dealer, you can get in and drive it away (hopefully). The better the componentsare in a vehicle, the higher the price will be.


Smelli

Munkie
Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:27 am
#34

I was sick by how people sell their grinded crap ship for 10k while I try and ensure the best quality resources in the ships, and I still get people buying the grinded crap telliing my prices are too high.


My solution...


I go to the offending SW vendor, clean it out at his crap price, and sell it as budgeted grind ships at a 10% profit over what I paid.


I keep the crap grinder happy, I INFORM people what they are buying, and I price fix on my own terms.


Simple.


Munkie!



Munkie!
DiceDuP
Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:15 am
#35

One thing i have noticed is a lot of first time crafters have taken up SW. Myself being a crafter since I bought the game and having done various professions over time tend to see people come and go from crafting professions that they suddenly realise that they cannot make profit as easily as they first imagined.


Shipwright, as far as I can see is in my mind, the worst ever profit maker in the game, and in a few weeks, once the majority of the harcore players have reached Master Pilot, will have a severe lack of return business, even worse than Architect. You will get those players who believe pricing their wares at a CPU rate that is way too low, simply dropping the profession once they realise that it is too much hassle to do. At least all the other professions can manufacture in factories.


The amount of time it takes to craft chassis, subs, and comps for ships is insane, those who price too low will simply find themselves never being able to keep up with demand, living in tell hell, and becoming frustrated with the profession. My advice to those who know what they are doing is to have patience, price your Ships and parts with a fair profit margin and sit back and wait for the casual dabblers to finally give up. After all, from what i've seen on my server, there isn't a single SW vendor stocking any items that are crafted correctly or experimented properly. I'm just glad I limited my SW business to friends and guildies only, I price my chassis at the moment at 8cpu and my parts at 12-15 (sometimes higher if i use really old rare spawns). I have sold more than I can craft simply working from my house with a vendor in it - I cannot ever imagine a SW being able to handle the business a shop vendor would bring.


I got JTL a day or so before most of my friends in game, im stuck on 1-1-1-1 pilot while all my friends are way up on tiers 3 and 4. Yesterday I spent 9 hours solidly crafting parts and I have almost no parts left already, and to stop all the tells coming again, im gonna have to spend another 5-6 hours solidly crafting bits. So, if you are a dedicated crafter and have taken up SW, and don't want to be doing it for nothing, price your Novice ships at just above cost so that people can get into space. Then start a sliding scale of profit from Tier 1 upwards. Most players seem to get a shock once they reach Tier 3 anyway, as the resource useage takes a major bump and prices shoot up.


However, from travelling around my server, I already feel that SW's have shot themselves in the foot like Architects did with their pricing. I'm happy with my prices, my customers are happy too, they know when they come to me that I know what I'm doing and they will get the custom order exactly how they want it - for that they pay a small profit on RESOURCES, a small profit on my KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS, and a small profit for my TIME. When you add all three up, then you make a fair profit, if you just wanna shove any old crap in and stare in amazement at the 8 or so experiment lines and just stick em where u think it looks good - then you will only be paid profit on the first part - the resources.


Good luck!



_____________________________________________
John'boy 12pt Master Weaponsmith/Shipwright
Zebulon 12pt Master Armorsmith - RIS Certified
"JB's Hypermarket" Commerce City, LOK 3300 -1000
VISIT COMMERCE CITY FOR THE 1 STOP CITY FOR ALL YOUR NEEDS WITH HUNDREDS OF TRADERS. New Mall now at Commerce City way 3300 -1000 LOK
GalacticHustler
Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:20 am
#36


PyronFirewalker wrote:


GalacticHustler wrote:
actually the only point in this thread that is important has to do with long term viability of the profession. People say we have no right to say people shouldn't give away ships but we do because we are the ones that actually care about the profession. Lowering the long term viability and then getting out is just another form of griefing no matter how you spin it. It may not be intentional griefing but it achieves the same result. I just wish they raised the barriers to entry even higher to prevent FOTM crafters from ruining yet another prof before it even gets a chance to get off the ground.

Long term viability isn't determined by the price that is charged for the items, it is determined by the decay rate of the item. Architect items don't decay (well, as long as you pay the maintenance on the houses and harvesters that is) so that profession was hosed from the start. Shipwrights will make their long term money on components since they decay.




We obviously have 2 different definitions of long term viability the arch problem is they thought it meant capable of surviving where most of the economically sane world would say it means long term success, two distinctly different things. Decay does play a role in that but what also plays a role is what do you need to charge to be a success in the long run. 6 months down the road if anyone that is making negligible cred being a SW is still a SW I owe you all an apology, but more than likely the rest of us will be left behind to clean up the mess they've made.

or

Maybe I'm just not understanding certain peoples reasoning so proponents of low cpu sales, why do you think this is the best way to go not for yourself but for the shipwright community as a whole?

Message Edited by GalacticHustler on 10-31-2004 08:22 AM



Carg Starslayer
The Chef
"Often imitated but never duplicated""


Cargs Cuisine Valcyns #1 source for all things food corellia UAT Mall 972, -5572 only a short bike ride from the coronet starport.


Brilyn
Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:19 am
#37

< If you don't agree with me, then sell me YOUR resources at the 0.2cpu that you quote. >


I'm not selling resources. Why is this so hard to comprehend?


Why is the immediate counter to any point "Oh, sell me your resources then"?




For the hard of thinking amongst you (and there appear to be a few), I'm saying the cost of the resources is 0.2cpu.


Did I say that was the sale price? No. I did not. Please feel free to start reading what I am writing, as opposed to what I am not writing.



< If you won't sell it to me for that, then it's value is actually higher, isn't it? >


Right, so you're going to start spouting the "oh, resources have a market value, therefore I lose money if I don't sell my items at the market value of the resources, minimum" right?



Tell me this:



Are you going to track what resources you used in each component? Track the value of them over time over the next 6+ months? And adjust the price of your components accordingly?



If not, you are a hypocrite, and are simply being argumentative. Get over it already.



Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider
Reijh
Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:30 am
#38

I been charging 6-8 cpu for chasis blueprints and and around 20-30 for components, as the resources i have arent junk. And I try to stay at 6cpu on the chasis and 20 cpu on components for guildies and 30 for others which i think is reasonable because f the fact i have done nothin but make stuff for other ppl to enjoy the expansion and considering msot the other shipwrights ive come across are going 6-8 cpu as well on the chasis and some are even going as high as 60cpu on components. Most the ones selling the stuff at giveaway prices are hurting themselves and probably wont keep the prof which i intend keeping.



(ggggggggggxnnnnnnnn Reijh Recoil
SITH
!!I'll "Krypt" your a$$
!!

ShimmeringStars
Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:13 am
#39






GalacticHustler wrote:


We obviously have 2 different definitions of long term viability the arch problem is they thought it meant capable of surviving where most of the economically sane world would say it means long term success, two distinctly different things. Decay does play a role in that but what also plays a role is what do you need to charge to be a success in the long run. 6 months down the road if anyone that is making negligible cred being a SW is still a SW I owe you all an apology, but more than likely the rest of us will be left behind to clean up the mess they've made.

or

Maybe I'm just not understanding certain peoples reasoning so proponents of low cpu sales, why do you think this is the best way to go not for yourself but for the shipwright community as a whole?

Message Edited by GalacticHustler on 10-31-2004 08:22 AM





I think that's the fundamental disconnect. Most of the shipwrights are either former master crafters or master combat types, for whom a million credits is meaningless. As a former entertainer turned Master Shipwright, I make more in one day (for the last four days in a row) than I have ever had at one time in months of gameplay prior to JtL launch - multiple millions of credits per day. Yet my even my most extravagant pricing is less than half of what the Coronet Mall vendors are selling for. One anecdotal component - Mid-Grade Blaster in South Coronet Mall (the prime shopping spot on Naritus) was 400-700ish damage rating and selling for 85k. Mine are 625-850ish and selling for 4k.



I have already replenished my materials stock twice over since JtL launch (some mining, mostly purchasing) and am still up more than I've made in nearly 8 months of SWG. So please remember that "negligible" is not the same for everyone.





Direnna Tocuri, Master Shipwright
Firebird Spaceworks: 4244 -4336 outside Moenia starport, Naritus server
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