Shipwright Archive
Thread: SPACE LOOT SYSTEM NEEDs BIG TIME CHANGE ASAP...PLEASE!
Diorchas
Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:09 am
#27
That would depend upon how such attachments/enhancements were implemented, IMO.
Regardless, I'm not going to be one who advocates nerfing the loot system. I only want Shipwrights to be able to make the best stuff or, at the very least, be able tocraft comparably to loot in EVERYTHING.
There should be no way at all to get an uber starship component without the Shipwright being a substantial part of the process. And by substantial I mean that he is indispensible and, hopefully, actually crafting something in the process (as opposed to being an RE machine).
AnzelVincir
Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:37 am
#28
Diorchas wrote:
That would depend upon how such attachments/enhancements were implemented, IMO.
Regardless, I'm not going to be one who advocates nerfing the loot system. I only want Shipwrights to be able to make the best stuff or, at the very least, be able tocraft comparably to loot in EVERYTHING.
There should be no way at all to get an uber starship component without the Shipwright being a substantial part of the process. And by substantial I mean that he is indispensible and, hopefully, actually crafting something in the process (as opposed to being an RE machine).
Space loot can't be 'comparable' to crafted loot. For one really big reason. It's F R E E. If someone can buy my 103 speed engine for even 100K or have a 89 speed engine for free then guess what? The majority of people will take the free one.
Ever hear of Linux? Linux is complete garbage compared to Windows XP SP2 yet that statement will spark a firestorm of responses telling me how wonderful Linux is and how horrible XP is. However if it were the other way around... If XP was free to download and Linux were $199 the firestorm would be more like a tiny little flame.
It'd be cool if you killed a ship and the enemy dropped a '5K Mass Reduction Kit' that you took to a Shipwright to have crafted into some really cool component. Right now pilots can completely circumvent Shipwrights if they spend enough time 'loot-grinding'. I know this because I have some very very uber loot...
u962281
Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:28 pm
#29
I wanted to add to this thread one last time (perhaps in hopes of being called a daft git one more time. Bless the ad hominem attacks. For the record, Gadon, I am not a Shipwright, but a very successful Chef, and have been a Chef for a very long time. I am intimately familiar with the resouce hunt and the benefit of high end resources. You ask me to read posts carefully, and I do. I examined yours for any reference to you being a Shipwright, and the only reference is to how much you have paidOTHER Shipwrights. I however, not once in my post referenced myself as a Shipwright as you have referenced me.)
Also, to the poster that referred to a long fruitless search for Fiberplast worth a darn, please access swgcraft.com. Your life will be made much much easier, I promise. Great site.
The 90% of loot being better than crafted I referred to meant that, as a player of JTL since day one, you accumulate loot as you play. At this point 90% of my components are RE'd loot. (Not always, it's a mix. But once you find a killer piece, you'll keep it forever, in essence.) I realize that 90% of loot is crap, but, eventually, through playing you will always find components that are better than crafted. With a poor decay system, this negatively impacts Shipwrights. However, recent drop rate and quality changes may affect this, but the bottom line is that loot drops result in useful items to players, unlike, for example ye olde CDEF pistol drop.
The only point I was really trying to make is that Shipwright alone in the crafting professions have to compete with loot drops. This is contrary to the stated dev intention to let the player economy manage itself. Accusations of Shipwright gouging and high prices are immaterial. Prices vary from server to server, and vary widely on each individual server. The economies manage themselves when it comes to price. If you felt you got gouged, make sure you don't just search near Cnet. Bargains can usually be found.
I still feel that the original proposal to change loot drops toinclude upgrades and/or subcomponents has some merit. I am not advocating a blanket loot nerf. I have always liked high end loot drops. I just think that some change is necessary to make Shipwright a living profession, rather than the current Ship Component Slicer/Missile Maker it is now. That change may just be to improve the quality of the SW crafted items. But there clearly are some issues that need to be addressed. The SW I know are not trying to get rich, there are many professions that get you there quicker without a Godzilla sized resource hassle. They just want the profession to be fun.
rexan
Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:58 pm
#30
GadonThek wrote:
I scour the bazaar every day looking for componants which I can use. Now, I consider myself a developing-expert on RE loot, Im not at the stage I want to be, but I KNOW I have a good eye for parts. Do you know how many componants Ive found, not just on the galaxy-wide bazaar but on vendors, which are worthy of even a mid-range RE componant so far?
20.
In a week.
No offence my friend, but you are not the only person who knows how to identifygood loot. Any pilot worth his wings knows what loot is good and what isn't. Anything good goes into their ships, or hits the auction channel. Anything bad hits the bazaars and vendors.
So your observations to not form a representation of the quality of loot which is actually droping.
Seriah-EH
Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:42 pm
#31
OK, this debate is retarded. It's all luck. Luck on the loot. JUST LIKE IN THE GROUND GAME. What ground person would choose a crafted weapon over a good DOT weapon? OK, I'm sure there are a few players out there that hate everything about DOT weapons, but the only profession I know of that uses mainly crafted weapons is TK, and thats because DOT VK's are so rare as to be almost a myth. Riflemen/women use crafted rifles...but they are crafted WITH loot.
If the shipwrights stop RE'ing for free, then your problem would be over. Refuse to RE for free. Offer a slightly higher price for RE components than the chassis broker. RE the stuff and sell it back. I know you really want those Firespray schem pieces, so that you can sell them for 8 mil or so a piece, but isn't that YOUR problem? You have a ship. GO LOOT SOME CRAP YOURSELF.
Loot drops are no where near as uber as you all are trying to make them out to be. I am working on my 6th Ace badge, and I have garnered much loot....but 98% or so was trash. Credits? Negligable. When JTL was released, I had a little over 40 mil....i am under a mil now. Almost every dime went to shipwrights because of the speed at which i burn through my chassis. Because looted armor is a joke. Because until you get a good level 8 shield, crafted is the way to go. Because any pilot automatically HAS to purchase all those chassis. Because to GET a good looted component, you have to loot 90 or so crappy ones. Because you have to loot 30 good ones before you have enough to RE a really good component.(For some reason, I give all my chassi away when I'm done using them...so the next time I want to start on the same faction piloting again, I have to buy all over. But unlike all this whining, I'll admit that it's MY PROBLEM. I chose to do this, I have to drop my credits to undo it. You had to spend millions to grind Shipwright? YOUR CHOICE.)
Waaa it doesnt decay fast enought! Neither do my rifles, and I've been using the SAME THREE since I started playing the game almost 6 months ago. (Well, not counting the first week it took me to be ABLE to use these rifles.)
I know I ramble a bit, but what I'm trying to say is.......
I chose to grind all these different pilot professions. I chose to do that. It isn't my local shipwright or the Devs problem that it cost me so much. I CHOSE IT.
You chose to grind shipwright. That isnt my problem, and it isn't the problem of my fellow pilots. Nor is it the problem of the devs. YOUR CHOICE. You made it. Noone else made it for you. Everyone knew competition in the SW profession would be high. Yet there are still10-15 shipwrights for every armorsmith on my server. And you STILL chose to be a SW. Your choice, not ours....get off it and stop screaming for nerfs and skill boosts and crap. Or should the weaponsmiths start crying cause they can't craft the uber DOT weapons? Armorsmiths because they can't craft kimo scales?
GadonThek
Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:32 pm
#32
AnzelVincir wrote:
Diorchas wrote:Ever hear of Linux? Linux is complete garbage compared to Windows XP SP2 yet that statement will spark a firestorm of responses telling me how wonderful Linux is and how horrible XP is. However if it were the other way around... If XP was free to download and Linux were $199 the firestorm would be more like a tiny little flame.
Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about computers? Lets see, even discounting the fact that Linux is free, its more secure than windows, it has better performance, and, its now just as user-friendly.
XP SP2 is a pile of stinking crap, it causes massive compatability issues with dozens of programs, even ones which come WITH windows, how is that superior to Linux in any way? For the record: I use a Linux distro that you pay for, and its worth every penny.
Windows has given us such wonderful things as ActiveX, their piss-poor version of Java which can download and install programs(ie, spyware, virus and trojans) to your computer without even informing you, let alone asking permission.
Why do you think all the major virus-attacks target windows machines? Its because there are dozens, if not hundreds of exploits in Windows. Imagine, if you will, a spiders web. At the center of this web is the first Windows PC to be infected with a self-replicating virus. The virus sends itself out through email to all the users in the First PC's contact list. When the next circle out in the web accesses their email, the virus downloads and installs itself, you dont even need to open the attachment thanks to ActiveX and a handy exploit or 200 in Outlook Express. This continues on, and on, and on, the virus just mails itself out and spreads, and it cant be stopped until an update is released and enough users install it.
Now, lets see what happens in the same situation, assuming all the PCs involved run Linux. The First PC is infected, and the virus sends itself out to the next circle in the web. And thats it. For starters, most Linux users will be using something like Mozilla Thunderbird as a mail utility, which doesnt have half of the exploits of Outlook Express, so its highly unlikely you could design a virus which would self-download without any user input. Then, and here is the thing that sets Linux apart from Windows: the program cant do bugger-all even if it manages to download itself, because it doesnt have Root. It cant install itself, so it cant self-replicate anymore. There are a couple of dozen ways to get easy access to the Administrator privaleges on a Windows machine, but to get Root on a Linux system(if its set up properly), you need to be right there, at the keyboard.
The virus is now dead, having infected, say, a maximum of a couple of hundred machines, depending on the size of the First PC's email contact list.
Apologies for the OT ranting, but your comment was just such total rubbish I had to respond.
rexan:
Rubbish. Sorry, but it is. Many pilots dont have the first idea of what constitutes good loot, and Ive found some real bargains on the bazaar in the past. Any idiot can monitor the Auction channel for someone spamming "sellin teh UBAR COMPONANTS, just 500k EACH PST!!!!11",and for the record, Ive never seen one that was actually worth the asking price there. You will also notice, if you dont selectivly quote whatever suits your argument, that I check vendors as well, I know exactly what Im doing, and Im telling you right now, there are simply not that many good componants out there.
Pilots will usually want to obtain one or two "uber" componants of each type for themselves, and will sell anything else. You wouldnt believe the proportion of items which I buy that are listed because "it has low gen drain, but the damage, mass and EPS are so crap its not even worth RE'ing".....
Ive met, out of about 100 pilots, 2 who have a fully RE'd loadout, many use 50/50 crafted/loot, and the (large) remainder use all crafted or only one or two looted componants.
Diorchas
Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:51 pm
#33
Gadon,
That was not my quote. You just attributed to me an opinion of Linux that I did not profess. Please be a little more careful in how you cut and paste quotes. Thank you.
That was not my quote. You just attributed to me an opinion of Linux that I did not profess. Please be a little more careful in how you cut and paste quotes. Thank you.
Marzuk147
Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:50 pm
#34
"I had a little over 40 mil....i am under a mil now. Almost every dime went to shipwrights because of the speed at which i burn through my chassis. Because looted armor is a joke. Because until you get a good level 8 shield, crafted is the way to go. Because any pilot automatically HAS to purchase all those chassis."
You know what they say about a fool and his money. If you spent 39 MILLION credits on ships, you got bent over, just admit it.
You know what they say about a fool and his money. If you spent 39 MILLION credits on ships, you got bent over, just admit it.
Rhysen
Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:08 pm
#35
Honestly, I feel that Shipwrights should produce the best items. The same way Armorsmiths produce the best armor and Weaponsmiths produce the best weapons (barring DoTs which will prolly get nerfed in the CU). BUT there also has to be something to RE. And that does include the participation of the Shipwright.
My best suggestion would be to modify the enhancements system found in armor/weapon creation. Leave loot as it is but the loot itself not usable until it's combined with a working component during the creation process. People kill Krayts for enhancements to take to a weaponsmith to make a better blaster. And that system works. If the Krayt dropped a fully functional rifle or carbine, the system wouldn't work. Weaponsmiths would have no business and Krayts would be an endangered species.
warrenbassist
Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:08 pm
#36
I've enjoyed the "free ride" this far into JTL. Can't complain if it ended. I'm a bit afraid if they try to fix this they will mess up the firespray disc drop.
As far as being a ship weapons launcher and chaff dispenser vendor that is the biggest waste.
Marzuk147
Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:22 pm
#38
From the tone of your post, it seemed as though you spent a stupid amount of money on shipwright goods, so shipwrights must be fine. IMO come to ahazi, I have a 15 million CDEF pistol Id like to sell you too.
Seriah-EH
Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:37 pm
#39
hehehe i came to ahazi once, the ground loot there looks good. ive never seen so many people in BH armor as i saw there.