Shipwright Archive
Thread: SPACE LOOT SYSTEM NEEDs BIG TIME CHANGE ASAP...PLEASE!
1st_Viduus wrote:
Well I mastered in 4 days, and do you know how many crafted components I used?
My chassis.
That's it.
Everything else looted ( & re'd after tier 3, didn't know about it until then).
To this day, (and I'm msw now) I'm using 85% LOOTed & RE'd components.
Pretty sad when most of myown crafting doesn't go in my own ships.
Most of what we can craft is not as good as what can be looted. I'm not asking for a(nother) nerf to loot.
I wouldn't mind a boost/balance to SW comps & crafting.
People are going on about the "Uber Crafted Engines".... uh-huh...
Make me a cert 7 engine with 74 on all YPR and 83 speed, please. Oh and make sure it's under 20k mass and uses less than 2k reactor drain.
You can't do it, I don't care what resources you have available. You can't RE a cert 7 like that either, but you certainly can do a Cert 6 like that. For the pilot, it's the same thing.
Or how about those shields...? I have a Cert 8 in my oppressor, 2555.3 front and rear, 13.85 recharge, 18k mass, and 2100 reactor drain.
Craft me one exactly like that or better...?
And no, I'm imperial, I didn't use any shield shunts to do it. Straight out of the sky like the parts came to me.
See the problem? Name a part, best you can make, and I bet I can find you a looted/re'd better.
I used 93% average resources on everything required to make a reactor, and the best I could do was a 38k mass 18.8k reactor.
That thing is HUGE. I have an 18.8 RE'd at the same cert level (9) that's 21k mass.
I have a 31.3k energy reactor that has 23k mass, at cert 10.
I've been noticing a tread here. I have not found a looted engine with over an 85 speed since that reward engine nerf. Even cert 10 engines are only droping with 87 speed rates. Granted their RPY are in the high 60s and low 70s though. All of my new craft are using overdriven cert-7 engines with 89 speed, 12.5k mass, and 49YPR. These are pretty popular, considering quite a few people missed out on themission reward engine.
In addition, I've been advocating that shipwrights should have YPR rolled into 1 experimentation branch, instead of 3. As it stands SW cannot make an engine with decent YPR period.
I've been able to craft some nice cert-9 shields with 2100 F/B and a 15.5 recharge rate. I believe they have a 23k mass and I couldn't tell you the reactor drain. Not as great as the shieldsyou RE'd. But again, these are still pretty viable. And again, I have not seen any shields drop recently with 2500 stats.
And I also think capicators need to be looked out. Shipwrights cannot produce good caps to save out lives.
Message Edited by rexan on 12-20-2004 05:08 PM
u962281 wrote:My apologies for saying this, it is close to a flame (ok, it is), but that may be the silliest thing (and I use silly to avoid swearing) I've ever heard. With very very few exceptions (NS Lances maybe?), what Master Crafter DOESN'T make "teh ubar" components? What other crafter has to compete with loot on so many levels? Now, please go find a "Shipwrights make too much money" thread to flame (and ignore that Shipwrights did not set the resource levels, SOE did, as I am sure you will.)
1. I AM a Shipwright, you daft git, try reading what someone posts before you respond.
2. You're right, they dont have to compete with loot, but they DO have to put a MASSIVE amount of effort into finding amazing resources, they spend time surveying for harvestor spots, they outlay huge amounts of cash. You, as a Shipwright, cant say ANYTHING about loot until you do the same, once you're crafting 105 speed engines with YPR in the mid-50s and reasonable mass/gen drain, then you can come out saying "loot is better than crafted, always, Im right, you're wrong, nya nya nya nya nya".
1st_Viduus:
Wowza, thats one big post, and Im not going to get into a huge debate at 2am, but I will say this: your friend was LUCKY, if you can grasp the concept. You can NOT go out and say "because me and 5 other people I know get good loot, that must mean all loot is better than crafted", it doesnt work that way, the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast(you see where Im going with this yet?), VAST majority of loot(excepting, of course, caps and boosters) is total crap compared to good quality crafted items.
Its just that simple.
Do you know what I do ingame? Im setting up a business around mid-high quality RE'd space loot. In fact, being a "salvage merchant" is the only reason I intend to Master Shipwright, so I can offer the full range of componants at any level.
So anyway, Ive been laying the groundwork for the business(not all of us can afford 12 million credits to grind to Master, hell, I cant even afford to run Harvs at the moment, my 'stick is broken and Im still levelling Carbineer). I scour the bazaar every day looking for componants which I can use. Now, I consider myself a developing-expert on RE loot, Im not at the stage I want to be, but I KNOW I have a good eye for parts. Do you know how many componants Ive found, not just on the galaxy-wide bazaar but on vendors, which are worthy of even a mid-range RE componant so far?
20.
In a week.
Now, thats not even taking into consideration the fact that those are an assortment of types, its not 20 good engines, 20 good caps etc, its 20 componants TOTAL, that are any good. Then take into consideration Im going to need a TON of crappy componants to "make up the numbers" for higher-level RE creations.
How is that unbalanced, 20 good componants on a whole bloody server. If the problem was as widespread as you say, there would be masses of AMAZING loot EVERYWHERE, no pilot can use that much great loot, somebody must be selling it all, right? Well, if they are, I cant find them.
Before my 'stick broke, I looted, on average, 20-30 componants per duty mission. Of which, perhaps, 3 were "usable", and most of the time, were still pretty average.Maybe once in every four or five missions I would loot something special, but not THAT special. The best item Ive ever looted was a 29k gen reactor with an ungodly amount of mass, the best I could get it RE'd down to was 45k mass, ie, 1k mass less than most of the local shipwrights make 19k gen reactors without breaking a sweat. It took me a week from finding the first one to locate a lower-mass reactor of the same level, and another three days to collect enough junk-parts to have it RE'd. Ive never seen anything that good since personally, and most shipwrights AND pilots I speak to ingame havent either.
Its still too big to fit into anything other than a Master level ship, so whats the problem? In the ground game, players buy crafted weapons, crafted armour, and then go out hunting for the best possible loot, geo weapons, acklay weapons, krayt weapons, DE-10s etc etc. Well would you look at that, shocking, exactly how it works in space.
The player buys crafted, mixes with a little average loot while he moves up the tree, hits master and buys a ton more crafted, then goes hunting for "space geo weapons". When he gets them, he takes them to a shipwright to have them RE'd, just like on the ground you take your krayt tisses to a weaponsmith to have them make you your special weapons. Dont blame the loot system if your local shipwrights are so desperate for a Firespray Schematic that they dont charge for RE'ing.
I'm reading it, and thinking.. fine fine as long as the stats on PC made parts are improved.
Then i got to this line:
>>My suggestion is to have upgrades drop rather than fully crafted items.
I guess he fails to recognize a little thing called Re engineering. You know if you would take the time to find and RE some good parts, i'll bet you most pilots will drop a good amount of credits on them, and not think twice about it... espeically engines and capacitors.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 12-20-2004 07:30 PM
Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 12-20-2004 11:15 PM
the only reason i use loot drops is most SW charge from 150k to 250k for level 7 blasters, and while this blaster are abit better then loot the mear cost is prohibative . i mean the two blaster i bought cost nearly 320k in fact if i wasnt a BE i would never of been ably to buy these blasters. most SW stuff is just to costly for me. only way to get me to buy more player crafted items is lower the price so i can affoard to buy it.
HEck the devs are soon giving pilots a free tier 2 ship and make it upgradable. the easy change is simple lower the amount of steel and stuff need for ship compents and hopefully Sw will lower their price. becouse there will be that one Sw that does
nagyt
****
If you are paying that much for level 7 blasters, then your being ripped off, plain and simple. I charge 25k for mine, and they are as good as any that I have seen, see sig for details.
On subject, rev eng weapons are the best in the game, so as such, they should be rare drop and difficult to create. After all, it is the only way I can get a 26.5k level 8 blaster on my A wing.
Regards
AnzelVincir wrote:
I understand why the loot system was introduced the way it was. The devs wanted people up in space and playing as quickly as possible. Having quality equiptment drop from enemies is a very effective way to achieve this and it has worked very well. Too well.
However that time has passed and we Shipwrights need an opportunity to make a long term living. Can you imagine if fully crafted DE-10's or LLCs were dropping at the same rate as space loot? Let me ask you this... What would Armorsmiths do if fully crafted pieces of high quality Composite or RIS were dropping regularly from MOBs? I'll answer for you. There would be a complete and immediate revolt.
My suggestion is to have upgrades drop rather than fully crafted items. This way the pilot has to take the upgrade to his/her local shipwright and have it REd along with other similar upgrades and then crafted into a component. This would create a bigger demand for player crafted items and make Shipwright a viable long term profession.
Otherwise head over to the Architect forum and take a peek at our future...
1st_Viduus wrote:
Hmm.
I'm not what I'd consider a 'lucky' person. Quite the opposite in fact.
And I loot, daily, components which are much better than anything I can craft with 90%~ish resources.
And of course you won't find good loot in the bazaar. Anyone who knows what it's worth is keeping it, and anyone who doesn't is selling it to the chassis vendor.
I collect my loot drops, RE them, and sell them on my vendor, and even using poor-grade loot I get as good or better than what can be crafted.
I'd have to say, from what I have seen, and every other pilot I know on Ahazi has seen, your experience is a-typical, not mine.
Granted there are differences server to server, and pilot to pilot, and day to day, and patch to patch.
But *one a day* for great - to - extreme - stat components is the norm, from everyone I've talked to on my server.
Even Gyorgy, who looted a Cert 10 cap the other day with over 50 recharge.
P.S.:
Even the crap loot serves a purpose though...:
I call it "filler".
Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 12-20-2004 11:15 PM
PaladinX333 wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
I understand why the loot system was introduced the way it was. The devs wanted people up in space and playing as quickly as possible. Having quality equiptment drop from enemies is a very effective way to achieve this and it has worked very well. Too well.
However that time has passed and we Shipwrights need an opportunity to make a long term living. Can you imagine if fully crafted DE-10's or LLCs were dropping at the same rate as space loot? Let me ask you this... What would Armorsmiths do if fully crafted pieces of high quality Composite or RIS were dropping regularly from MOBs? I'll answer for you. There would be a complete and immediate revolt.
My suggestion is to have upgrades drop rather than fully crafted items. This way the pilot has to take the upgrade to his/her local shipwright and have it REd along with other similar upgrades and then crafted into a component. This would create a bigger demand for player crafted items and make Shipwright a viable long term profession.
Otherwise head over to the Architect forum and take a peek at our future...
Your post is out of date. None of the components that I have looted in the last week have been usable. They are all junk. You can't hardly even find a 40 recharge capacitor anymore.
Right now in my ship I have a crafted reactor, crafted shields, crafted weapons andcrafted armor. The only looted parts are the capacitor, engine and booster (I love my booster).In the next few daysI am going to replace the engine with a crafted one. What in the world are you complaining about?
The current loot system is out of whack because the quality of most looted parts is actually too low. I like the idea of looting something good at least occasionally. It is the equivilent of finding an exceptional weapon on the ground. Only in this case you need to loot more than one so your friendly neighborhood shipwright can RE it.
I can't see why anyone would want to fly around with a ship equipped with average loot parts. You would be toast in seconds. Quality shipwright crafted components are in demand on my server. Too bad most of the shipwrights have none in stock.
I've also noticed a steady decline in the overall quality of looted components. I used to keep 90% of everything that I RE'd for the Firespray grind but this past week or so I only keep about 10%. While this is a step in the right direction the system is still fundamentally broken.
The system needs to encourage pilots to purchase crafted components over looted and RE'd components. My suggestion would be to have component upgrades or even single use shematicsdrop instead of fully crafted components.This ideacomes directly from every other crafting profession such as Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, and even Tailor.
In order to get a DE-10 you need to bring the looted components to a Master Weaponsmith. In order to get an AV-21 you need to bring the components to a Master Artisan. In order to get certain pieces of clothing you need to bring the schematic to a Tailor. In order to get a decent set of armor you need to bring Krayt components to a Master Armorsmith. This is the way every other crafting profession is setup... and for very good reasons.
As a Master Shipwright I can craft items that are just as good or even better than thier looted counterparts. Here's the thing though. Looted items are F R E E. Why would someone want to spend even 2K on my 103 speed engines when they can loot several 70 to 80 speed engines and have them RE'd to a 80 something engine? Additionally Shipwright takes an enormous amount of resources. Even the components take 4-6K in resources each...
I'm not crying nerf here in any way. Loot needs to flow 'freely' in space but we need to have it setup in such a way as to not completely circumvent Shipwrights altogether.