Shipwright Archive
Thread: Aniketos Pricing Guide
moley
Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:56 pm
#27
Figures. Here we go with the insane prices. Seems I remember what Luke Skywalker said in Star Wars. "wow, we could almost buy a ship of our own for 10,000 credits." Something along those lines anyway. Funny, not many things go for 10.000 credits in SWG. Maybe some people can set a trend and lower the economy instead of trying to hoard credits for some dumb reason. Wow, you have the most credits on the server. Good for you. Don't charge huge prices like that. A newbie comes in, he can't do anything except jump into a starter ship and get blown up every 10 seconds. On top of that, component breaks, you have to buy another. Running boring mission after boring mission to get the credits just to get a new deflector shield, again and again. And if you say, SWG doesn't follow story lines, well, maybe it should. MaybeSOE should cap everything. Put a cap on all things sold so everyone doesn't have to grind to buy something, and grind to support it. That way, some of us can actually play the game the way it should be played.
CapnKate
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:06 am
#28
moley wrote:Figures. Here we go with the insane prices. Seems I remember what Luke Skywalker said in Star Wars. "wow, we could almost buy a ship of our own for 10,000 credits." Something along those lines anyway. Funny, not many things go for 10.000 credits in SWG. Maybe some people can set a trend and lower the economy instead of trying to hoard credits for some dumb reason. Wow, you have the most credits on the server. Good for you. Don't charge huge prices like that. A newbie comes in, he can't do anything except jump into a starter ship and get blown up every 10 seconds. On top of that, component breaks, you have to buy another. Running boring mission after boring mission to get the credits just to get a new deflector shield, again and again. And if you say, SWG doesn't follow story lines, well, maybe it should. Maybe SOE should cap everything. Put a cap on all things sold so everyone doesn't have to grind to buy something, and grind to support it. That way, some of us can actually play the game the way it should be played.
Maybe you could stop trolling the Profession board and find something constructive to do, while we're on the topic of things we feel people should do. It costs more than 10K just to make a starter ship chassis with anything but grind materials, and even with grind materials, a starting ship *with* components takes 6400 resources, assuming NO upgrades. Now, I don't know if you've noticed, but on our particular server, grind materials generally go for 2 cpu at a minimum. So to BREAK EVEN, we're already talking at least 12,800 for a kind of terrible ship. naturally, breaking-even scales up from there. And no, I'm NOT going to go grind TKM Janta missions all day so I can hand out ships below cost to people. I'm all for reasonable pricing and such, but that isn't reasonable, period.
FSCSexplorer
Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:55 am
#29
S_Thark wrote:
Nah... the price guide is actually pretty fair. In averages it goes by about 6.5 cpu for chassis and 10 cpu for components. And if you consider in what kind of insane amounts a shipwright will need ressources to be able to make chassis and that all components and chassis have to be made by hand, it is rather fair. I am a lot more expensive as a tailor charging about 10 cpu to 18 cpu there.
a tier 1 ship @ 100k is 20 cpu
****edit umm n/m I was thinking of novice. Dang the more I do the math the more those prices are too cheap !!
Xwing 60k resources Tier 3 @ 7.5 cpu that's 450k !! Man that's cheap cpu crafting ! *****
Origianlly I thought that was a fair price as other crafter get 20 cpu to 40 cpu profit.
A long time ago I rebutted an Armorsmiths post stating they had to charge said prices to make a profit.
I told her that she is making over 40 cpu profit not a base price of 40 cpu !!
No wonder a full suit of Comp was costing 525k !!
So anyways I was reading some other posts and since I'm creating prototypes and not "practice crafting" I have those crappy resource made /non experimented tier 1 ships @ 40k a blueprint.
We'll see I guess.............. server is coming up
Message Edited by FSCSexplorer on 10-27-2004 07:53 AM
warrenbassist
Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:13 am
#30
I'm sure prices will drop if they are "overpriced". Seems like every new feature put in, is uber expensivefor at least the first month. Like the 50-60k speed bikes, and 100k mounts. =P
Saagaloo
Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:10 am
#31
A quick price comparison on Chimaera;
1x set of ubese armour = 120,000
1x set of comp armour (80% kin,eng,elec) = 450,000 to 550,000
1x set of stun comp armour = 550,000 to 650,000
1xAcklay bone = between 2m and 5m depending on stats
2h melee speed SEA = 1m per point
Sofully loaded tier 3, 4 and 5 ships should enable skilled players to perform well in space based PvP, plus provide the ability to gain additional cash from auctioning space based loot. And yet the prices shipwright's are expected to sell these for are considerably less than the cost of aset of armour or aground based pvp set up (stun comp armour+psg+half decent weapon+the odd SEA).
So isthe space expansion worth so much less than the ground game? Are armoursmiths "worth" more than Shipwrights? This isn't intended as a flame on anyone that's posted here, I'm just continually surprised at the double standards applied by people in this game......particularly when money is so easy to come by in this game. So a top level ship might cost 4m or 5m - you might have to do 2 buff sessions running missions instead of one.....oh dear what a hardship.
The fact is, the people that are crying about gouging are the people that want uber ships on the very daythey qualify for the next level of ship BUTthey don't want to spend any time raising the cash to pay for it or dip into the millions they've already got from selling ground based loot. The sad thing is, shipwrights are already talking down their own prices. How many chassis's do you really think you'll be selling in 1 month or 2 month's time? This is going to be swoops all over again......a 1.5cpu sale price profession in the making. Shipwrights : your time is worth something!
Your dedication to collecting all those resources is worth something! Charge for it!
Miners are already jacking up resource prices to more than what's being suggested shipwrights should sell complete finished goods for, you might as well sell the resourcesand get more cash and save yourself a whole lot of time.Oh sorry but I forgot that it's okay to gouge on resources isn't it as combat types mine and sell resources on the side so that's perfectly acceptable yes of course it is. But you still gotta sell ships for next to nothing.....
Sevardos
Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:15 am
#32
Ummm... pricing discussions are generally useless. You're not going to convince anyone what is or is not a fair price.
One thing that seems to be under-estimated (or ignored)is the cost and market value of quality resources. These will go up and will be fought over - just like AS and WS resources are now.
This is NOT architect where all you use is grind resources. Some of the resources you will use for components, sub-compents (and maybe even chassis) will have market values ranging from 6 cpu to 15 cpu (some 50 to 150 cpu if it has ridiculously high stats).
Again, this is NOT architect. Every ... single ... piece .... needs to be experimented on and can only be made by hand (i.e., no factories). So you're not going to have someone spewing out 1000 ships in a factory which would flood the market with product (and lower prices).
There is no way by any stretch of the imagination that I would sell a product at a price that is the same or lower than the market value of the resources that make it. I'd be better off just selling the resources then. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
It's your $$$ to SOE every month so you're free to price anyway you like. But as the market matures, prices will actually go higher (my opinion of course). Unless ... you believe people will want grind ships with grind components for higher tiers (although I highly doubt it).
pneumonic81
Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:19 am
#33
Sevardos wrote:
Ummm... pricing discussions are generally useless. You're not going to convince anyone what is or is not a fair price.
One thing that seems to be under-estimated (or ignored)is the cost and market value of quality resources. These will go up and will be fought over - just like AS and WS resources are now.
This is NOT architect where all you use is grind resources. Some of the resources you will use for components, sub-compents (and maybe even chassis) will have market values ranging from 6 cpu to 15 cpu (some 50 to 150 cpu if it has ridiculously high stats).
Again, this is NOT architect. Every ... single ... piece .... needs to be experimented on and can only be made by hand (i.e., no factories). So you're not going to have someone spewing out 1000 ships in a factory which would flood the market with product (and lower prices).
There is no way by any stretch of the imagination that I would sell a product at a price that is the same or lower than the market value of the resources that make it. I'd be better off just selling the resources then. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
It's your $$$ to SOE every month so you're free to price anyway you like. But as the market matures, prices will actually go higher (my opinion of course). Unless ... you believe people will want grind ships with grind components for higher tiers (although I highly doubt it).
i wouldnt say they are useless. i think as a new profession all of the shipwrights need to be thinking abotu priceing as the game moves forward. so far my pricing seems to be doing well btu as time goes on prices will fluctuate.
as long as the conversaion doesnt erput into some pi44ing conterst and everyone getting offended i think pricing debates can eb very useful.
ZenDragonMLS
Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:26 am
#34
In general, I agree with Sevardos - these seem to rarely result in people changing their minds and as soon as the accusations of "gouger" and "undercutter" start flying then they go into the toilet pretty quick.
If people say: here are the prices I'm using, why I'm using them, and how the customers are responding, then that is *great* information, particularly as we all get started.
But when people issue "moral" judgements, based on *their* playstyle and values (never considering that the other guy may be coming from a different perspective) then it's down the rathole we go.
If people say: here are the prices I'm using, why I'm using them, and how the customers are responding, then that is *great* information, particularly as we all get started.
But when people issue "moral" judgements, based on *their* playstyle and values (never considering that the other guy may be coming from a different perspective) then it's down the rathole we go.
Subedeimatt
Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:43 am
#35
Totally agree with Sevardos, and I will be basing theprices of all shipwright items on the cost of buying the resource plus amark up (for the time spent making the item). If you can't make more money than just selling the resource then there's no point in selling shipwright goods in the first place (from an economic point of view).
ZenDragonMLS
Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:48 am
#36
To me, putting aside any of the economic / business reasons, there is a deep philosophical thing for me.
If I have a pile of resources that would fetch some number of credits (e.g., 300K) on the open market, and I make products from that pile instead of just selling the resources, if I sell the products for less than 300K that means that by my efforts I just *reduced* the value of that pile - my work added negative value. I just fundamentally won't do that - it makes my labor worse than worthless.
If I have a pile of resources that would fetch some number of credits (e.g., 300K) on the open market, and I make products from that pile instead of just selling the resources, if I sell the products for less than 300K that means that by my efforts I just *reduced* the value of that pile - my work added negative value. I just fundamentally won't do that - it makes my labor worse than worthless.
Iwami
Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:53 am
#37
How much do you suppose that you will charge to RE loot components for people? They will provide all the necissary stuff to do so, except for the 1 charge from your tool and about 10 seconds of your time.
ZenDragonMLS
Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:58 am
#38
It doesn't take 10 seconds of your time. You meet with the customer, they hand you one or more pieces of loot, you talk about them, you look to see if they take multiple items to do the RE on, then you put them in the tool, hit the button, hand it back to them, and talk about how that impacted their loadout.
How much do you pay a slicer to do your weapon or armor? That only takes them "10 seconds".
How much do you pay a slicer to do your weapon or armor? That only takes them "10 seconds".
loonatik
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:02 am
#39
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
It doesn't take 10 seconds of your time. You meet with the customer, they hand you one or more pieces of loot, you talk about them, you look to see if they take multiple items to do the RE on, then you put them in the tool, hit the button, hand it back to them, and talk about how that impacted their loadout.
How much do you pay a slicer to do your weapon or armor? That only takes them "10 seconds".
Exactly, not only that but we have to make a per use tool to combine the loot.