Shipwright Archive

Thread: Your 6k Kimogila

Ricven
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:26 pm
#14






Tlk wrote:


My personal feeling is that this forum should be used for discussing ways to improve crafting and experimentation. Discussions on the improtance of resource stats, not debates on the morale or economical pricing of chasis. No one will ever win that debate.






Sometimes this is impossible b/c people do not EVER see eye to eye. Plus we have yet to hear anythingfrom the dev's about our profession since launch. Aslo, its very hard to converse with some people about stuff b/c they feel that there not getting a fair end of the deal when people are charging "x" and others are charging "y". I like many other posts on the price care less about the going rate of others. As stated by Tanks, the "REAL SHIPWRIGHTS" will still be around for long term and the "Wannabes" will always come and go. This is not directed at any individual, its directed at a professional stand point, which I am sure that will go through many changes in the near future I can assure you!



Ric
Little-Green-Guy
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:31 pm
#15






Ricven wrote:





Tlk wrote:


My personal feeling is that this forum should be used for discussing ways to improve crafting and experimentation. Discussions on the improtance of resource stats, not debates on the morale or economical pricing of chasis. No one will ever win that debate.






Sometimes this is impossible b/c people do not EVER see eye to eye. Plus we have yet to hear anythingfrom the dev's about our profession since launch. Aslo, its very hard to converse with some people about stuff b/c they feel that there not getting a fair end of the deal when people are charging "x" and others are charging "y". I like many other posts on the price care less about the going rate of others. As stated by Tanks, the "REAL SHIPWRIGHTS" will still be around for long term and the "Wannabes" will always come and go. This is not directed at any individual, its directed at a professional stand point, which I am sure that will go through many changes in the near future I can assure you!







Well Said!


"The Real Shipwrights", alternatively, "The Real Merchants" will be able to adapt easily w/the economicchanges they are presented with.


Everyone is entitled to do as they wish...bottom line. Sell higher..Sell lower..just like the REAL WORLD....people will have a choice.


Just like IRL, people with complain and people will be happy.


Sieze the Day! (whatever that means to you, individualy)




Mucus' " tHe FiNe aNd gRiNd "
Specialty Resources - Premium Grade Resources - Grind Resources
South Coronet (SoCo) Ship Systems
Both located: 600m South of Coronet (JTL) Shop @ (-266 -5514), (Resources) Shop @ SoroSuub Mega-Mall (-235 -5560),
Uber Ships & Components for Uber Pilots (SoCo) Price List : -Clicky-


Little-Green-Guy
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:34 pm
#16

Yes, I agree.


please accept my apologies.


This argument just grows tiresome....and I hope not to see it in any additional threads.



Mucus' " tHe FiNe aNd gRiNd "
Specialty Resources - Premium Grade Resources - Grind Resources
South Coronet (SoCo) Ship Systems
Both located: 600m South of Coronet (JTL) Shop @ (-266 -5514), (Resources) Shop @ SoroSuub Mega-Mall (-235 -5560),
Uber Ships & Components for Uber Pilots (SoCo) Price List : -Clicky-


Tlk
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:35 pm
#17






instead, you "low ballers (and yes, its your right to do so) are selling your good so inexpensively, your not even breaking even on your sales.


In the REAL WORLD business like that..don't stay around long...they go bankrupt.


think about it.






I am bringing in a profit, how will I go bankrupt. And again, this is a game, so real world economics will not directly correspond to this system (except demand, as everyone can see that demand throws every other concept out the window in this game). I can see where I may have been condenscending on the original poster, for which I do apologize as i firmly believe in free trade. I just get so tired of people implying are stating that "low-ballers" are hurting the economy, they are not. They certainly are not operating a business to maximize returns that the more pricier sellers are, yet it is definately possible to still be successful.

Little-Green-Guy
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:41 pm
#18






Tlk wrote:







instead, you "low ballers (and yes, its your right to do so) are selling your good so inexpensively, your not even breaking even on your sales.


In the REAL WORLD business like that..don't stay around long...they go bankrupt.


think about it.







I am bringing in a profit, how will I go bankrupt. And again, this is a game, so real world economics will not directly correspond to this system (except demand, as everyone can see that demand throws every other concept out the window in this game). I can see where I may have been condenscending on the original poster, for which I do apologize as i firmly believe in free trade. I just get so tired of people implying are stating that "low-ballers" are hurting the economy, they are not. They certainly are not operating a business to maximize returns that the more pricier sellers are, yet it is definately possible to still be successful.







I do agree..and I apologize to you as well.


No, neither business strategy hurst the economy.


I disagree w/your economics statement. This game would server as a great model for an economics class (even though it does not resemble IRL).


All the basic and advanced Economic Principles are present on the SWG servers: supply/demand, oligapolies, monopolies (kinda), etc, etc.





Mucus' " tHe FiNe aNd gRiNd "
Specialty Resources - Premium Grade Resources - Grind Resources
South Coronet (SoCo) Ship Systems
Both located: 600m South of Coronet (JTL) Shop @ (-266 -5514), (Resources) Shop @ SoroSuub Mega-Mall (-235 -5560),
Uber Ships & Components for Uber Pilots (SoCo) Price List : -Clicky-


BadKarma777
Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:51 pm
#19






Little-Green-Guy wrote:

Yes, I agree.


please accept my apologies.


This argument just grows tiresome....and I hope not to see it in any additional threads.






I can fully understand that, and please don't think for one moment that don't understand your frustrations with the perception that all shipwrights are just 'greedy'.


Hey - I've mined and crafted before, so I do have some idea what goes into making a single item. Not just money, but time... lots and lots of time.


I know that there are many players out there that don't know how much resources cost - unfortunately, you just have to stand your ground and bear through it if you can.


Simple economics do apply, and yes, those shipwrights who are selling too low will fall from the profession. It's still relatively brand new and things have a tendancy to shake themselves out given enough time.


I realize that the price of steel has risen significantly across all servers as the demand for it has gone through the roof. I also realize that this will not always be the case - and that when it isn't the case anymore, prices willrecede accordingly.


Two things to keep in mind - 1 is that everyone is space crazy right now, and they want to get up there in the best ships they can buy as quickly as possible, and 2 there're alot of new players running around that have no idea how the economics play out in SWG. This is all new to them, and these ships seem insanely priced to a brand new player who's never made more then 2K for killing Sevorrts over a 20 minute time frame.


Lot's of misconceptions flying around right now - they'll get ironed out - in time.


In the meantime - all you shipwrights need to hang tough and keep your chin up. Remember this is all still in it's infancy, and considering the way the ground game launched, the future of JTL is looking pretty darn bright. =)



**I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick @ss... and I'm all outta bubblegum.**

StumanKadir
Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:23 pm
#20

And that's why I love finding vendors such as T'lks. You go there, buy up all their stock and then sell it at markup. Let them do all the work and let us reap the rewards.

Gotta love capitalism and cost sellers




Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

Scythe
Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:39 pm
#21

Tlk...quite frankly I don't think that ANY profession should be considered a "service" profession, and I'm offended by your insinuation that I "service" the SWG community. Why should I spend my hard earned credits so that others don't have to? Ships should cost what I pay in resources, be it harvested myself or purchased, PLUS the time I put into getting said resources. I've been on for 5 hours shopping for resources and maintaining my harvestors, and then I"ll probably spend an hour or so crafting the items themselves since I can't make a schematic and put it in a factory for chassis or main components. Why then should I operate at a close profit margin or a loss for my time investment? If you want to waste your time, that's fine by me. Please cease and desist however, such that the rest of us might be able to maintain our hard earned credits.



Scythykins - Starsider
Master Weaponsmith/Master Shipwright
Owner/Proprietor: Wraith Squadron Weaponry and Wraith Squadron Starships, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine

Please offer all auction winnings to the Wraith Squadron Starships Chassis Dealer, -6868 4780, Dantooine

"How many posts do I need to make before my opinion counts as much as yours?"
4Bidden
Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:14 pm
#22






Tlk wrote:



If you are on Naritus, feel free to visit my vendor on a daily basis and buy me out. Till then I will be more than happy to supply ships at a more reasonable price to those who for what ever reason do not have the multi-million credit bank roll.


Located South of coronet on the first Row: AubenCorp (third house on the eastern side of the peninsula just south of starport)


Tier 1 5k (Novice ships, costs 5k resources)

Tier 2 20k (Level 1 ships, TIE Figthers, Y-Wings, Dune Lizards, cost 15k resources)

Tier 3 40k (Level 2 ships, TIE/IN Fighters, Y-Wing LongProbe, Kimogilas, cost 30k resources)

Tier 4 80 k (Level 3 ships, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, X-Wings, etc, cost 60k resources)

Tier 5 110k (Level 4 ships, TIE Advanced, TIE Aggressors, etc, cost 85k(?) resources)

Tier 6 250k (Master ships, cost 150k+ resources)


And if someone gave me the resources, I would craft them what ever they wanted for a nominal fee of 5k per combine.


I mine all my own resources and power, and pass teh savings on, I do not support the proce gauging on resources and certainly would enver pass that onto a customer. I sell ships because it is fun when you are master, not because I want tomake millions of credits.



Message Edited by Tlk on 11-18-2004 04:40 PM


Message Edited by Tlk on 11-18-2004 04:41 PM




People like this either quickly change their mind, or give up the profession.. You are basically sellingchassis at cost.. I will tell you why, and I will be detailed.


I am assuming you are a merchant with "Efficiency 4" skill to reduce maintenance cost on a heavy mineral harvester to 72 cr/hr..power isnt effected and remains 75 units/hr. With that in mind I'm also assuming the harvesters are BER 13 and are on a high % area..lets say 85%. With those "assumptions" in mine, I can come up with some pretty accurate calculations. That harvester would be using 1728 credits and using 1800 units of power, per day. That harvester would be pulling 15912 units per day and your "break " cost per unit would be 0.1080cpu. The calculations I just did excluded the cost of power..


Now, with that in mind, you mentioned you sellnovice chassis (which take 5k in resources) for a nice price of 5k.The cost to make that shipwith the assumptions above would be542.5 credits, andthe profit would be 4457.5


A tier1chassis (15k in resources) would cost 1620 credits to make... w/ cost of power: 1735.5


A tier 2 chassis (30k in resources) would cost 3240 credits to make... w/cost of power: 3471


A tier3 chassis (60k in resources) would cost6480 credits to make... w/cost of power: 6942


A tier4 chassis (80k in resources) would cost 8640 credits to make... w/cost of power: 9256


Master chassis (150k in resources) would cost16200 credits to make... w/cost of power: 17355


With all this in mind, it may seem that you could be making a pretty good profit still.. But, you also have travel expenses, vendor expenses, and the expense of the structure the vendors are in. On top of that, you also have figure in the cost of power.... If you harvest your own power (BER 14 fusion on a 90% spot),the "break even"cost per unit goes from 0.1080 to 0.1157


I think I was pretty fare in my calculations. I allowed for high % resource areas to give good yield. I also factored in the maintenance reduction efficiency 4 would give. Now, if any of those %'s are lower than the ones I mentioned above, your cost per unit goes up. Example, if you are on a 70% area, your cost goes up to 0.1405 (w/power cost).


I dont know about everyone else, but I value my time. I feel if I have to sit infront of a crafting station for long periods of time, the customer should pay for some of that.. I charge 5cpu for all ship chassis. Now that is a factor that cant be figured in, cause Its different for everyone.



Edra's Architecture And Shipyard
---0---
Located On Bria, South Of Bestine At -1611, -4352
All Structure And Ship Orders Taken

DarthLithic
Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:23 pm
#23






Little-Green-Guy wrote:





Tlk wrote:

Keep up having fun DarthLithic, this is an interesting profession, do what ever you feel is right. One I have fun with. I like to see what I can craft better, what I can make better than what I can loot. I also try to remember all those trying times after launch having no money running from one city to the next, not affording to buy a gun. I like selling my ships to people that find themselves in a similar situation today as they start the game.


For all those that sell at higher prices, keep doing it, if that is what you want and brings you enjoyment, I and many others that sell at lower prices are not trying to make you lower your prices, we would simply appreciate you accepting us and learning to sell your products (you did choose to be a service profession) rather than trying to make us seem like we are inept at business or hurting the game in an attempt for us to raise our prices to your level. It simply will not happen. My personal feeling is that this forum should be used for discussing ways to improve crafting and experimentation. Discussions on the improtance of resource stats, not debates on the morale or economical pricing of chasis. No one will ever win that debate.







You are missing the point. These people are selling their products for EXACTLY , the amoumt, the RAW RESOURCES would sell at.


they are NOT jacking up prices..


instead, you "low ballers (and yes, its your right to do so) are selling your good so inexpensively, your not even breaking even on your sales.


In the REAL WORLD business like that..don't stay around long...they go bankrupt.


think about it.







It is my right to sell for what I want to sell, if I sell a ship for 2CPU that cost me .5cpu to mine, how is that going to put me out of business? that's still a 400% profit. you "gougers" ( and yes, it's your right to do so) are selling your goods so expensively that your customer base is not going to come back to you for a second ship. you are cutting off your own nose despite your face. Sure you're making $ now, but in the end people are going to feel cheated, and when it's time for their next ship, they'll look somewhere else. I will still be here. As will others who are selling their wares at fair prices.



Chalekazza Shipworks - Chilastra - outside Mos Eisley 3124 -6036
DarthLithic
Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:45 pm
#24

before you blast me, I only used the "g" word, it's cause he said low baller. I don't like that.



Chalekazza Shipworks - Chilastra - outside Mos Eisley 3124 -6036
RagNoRock5x
Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:53 pm
#25






DarthLithic wrote:





Little-Green-Guy wrote:





Tlk wrote:

Keep up having fun DarthLithic, this is an interesting profession, do what ever you feel is right. One I have fun with. I like to see what I can craft better, what I can make better than what I can loot. I also try to remember all those trying times after launch having no money running from one city to the next, not affording to buy a gun. I like selling my ships to people that find themselves in a similar situation today as they start the game.


For all those that sell at higher prices, keep doing it, if that is what you want and brings you enjoyment, I and many others that sell at lower prices are not trying to make you lower your prices, we would simply appreciate you accepting us and learning to sell your products (you did choose to be a service profession) rather than trying to make us seem like we are inept at business or hurting the game in an attempt for us to raise our prices to your level. It simply will not happen. My personal feeling is that this forum should be used for discussing ways to improve crafting and experimentation. Discussions on the improtance of resource stats, not debates on the morale or economical pricing of chasis. No one will ever win that debate.







You are missing the point. These people are selling their products for EXACTLY , the amoumt, the RAW RESOURCES would sell at.


they are NOT jacking up prices..


instead, you "low ballers (and yes, its your right to do so) are selling your good so inexpensively, your not even breaking even on your sales.


In the REAL WORLD business like that..don't stay around long...they go bankrupt.


think about it.







It is my right to sell for what I want to sell, if I sell a ship for 2CPU that cost me .5cpu to mine, how is that going to put me out of business? that's still a 400% profit. you "gougers" ( and yes, it's your right to do so) are selling your goods so expensively that your customer base is not going to come back to you for a second ship. you are cutting off your own nose despite your face. Sure you're making $ now, but in the end people are going to feel cheated, and when it's time for their next ship, they'll look somewhere else. I will still be here. As will others who are selling their wares at fair prices.






I have Several customers who return to me. I sell at 8 CPU for chassis and 20 CPU for components. Several people even advertise for me. I help out newplayers and give them sevier discounts on ships and components.


However, I will help them to a point. The totaly new players need to realise that this is an expansion and not a totaly seprat game. They must play and level up in the ground game inorder to get better stuff for space. The novice and tier 1 ships I will heavely discount, the rest the have to work for.


I am, however, concidering reducing my chassisprices another 20% of the original price, due to the "lowballers" on my server. (which there are quite a few of) This would bring my price down to 6 CPU.


I also do the ReSelling. I offer any resell items at a further discount, because I can not garentee my quality on them.




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moody628
Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:36 am
#26






DarthLithic wrote:

Just shows the greed.







Actually, it just shows the stupidity. Let me ask you in tems you might understand.


The Kimo requires 12k of Steel. 6k of ore. And another 12k of additional resources. Would you sell me the 30,000 units of resources for 6k?


I'm guessing your answer is probably something akin to "He** no!".


So, why would you craft 30k resources into a single package and sell it for that.


You can't buy steel on my server for less than 10cpu, so that's 120k just for the steel. Ore has always been 6-8cpu, so let's say 6cpu and make that a cost of 36k for the ore. Now, just for fun, let's say I could get the other 4 resources at grinding cost of 2cpu (please note, the fiberplast is the only thing I have an ice cube's chance of finding at that price), that still comes to another 24k for the rest of it. So, at a bare minimum, I would expect to pay 180k just to buy the resources.


Now consider the millions I spent to become a shipwright, make my tools (which, inexplicably, wear out when I die), my vendor and house maintenance, etc. It's about a 35% mark-up over cost... normal RL mark-up is 66% from wholesale to retail.


And you think that's greed? Then I guess you think 2% passbook savings interest is more than enough investment return on your money, eh?






JOS Outfitters & Supply

Kakita Jammo, Owner

Silent' Bob, Manager

Look for JOS on Tatooine!!!


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