Shipwright Archive
Thread: Equipment Factory!
. You do save some clicks/time I suppose by not having to switch between schematics as often. But if you take the raw manual labor involved in making say 10 ships worth of parts itll still be close to the same regardless of how you divide it up between smiths.
My problem is the need for manual clicking all the time. Its an artifical delay to the system in a game where most delays can be automated. It's like we were deliberatly left out just to see what happens.. and in my opinion the result was negative... and should now be fixed. Does that make sense?
If someone came up with an alternate solution to this without factories, Id totally support it. What about better macros? Say I want to gather my resources, get my buff, and click one button per part... or something like that.
MrHawat wrote:
I decided to make only armor.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
I am sorry, but I strongly disagree here. This is not a slam or an insult but do you understand that you have adopted you playing style so that you are no longer a SW? You are a part maker. That is fine if it works for you but that is not shipwright. Granted I do not make every component myself, some can not compete with RE and others borked by the design or resources. I can make them but choose not to because I can usually RE a much better one. You playsyle works on a busy server and alot of burned out shipwrights only make factory consumables.
The problem is the missile and paint kit guys are off playing their alts while I have to deal with people trying to level and compete in space. I have to try to figure out just what I can craft and RE to outfit that shiney JSF some one got. To make him go WOW. If I wanted to just manufacture left chestplates I would use a factory not become one. lol How is what you are doing different than feeding a schematic and resources into a factory? Yep, you are clicking away and ATK for requests but could you stop and fit a complete set ofcomponents and armor around an Uber part after you RE'd it? If I leave more than 200 mass on a good ship, I apologize.
The fact that alot of shipwrights on alot of servers are either private, make only factory consumables, or have joined with other SW's to become parts factories tell me this needs to be looked at. I do two things I fly ships and make ships. I also harvest resources but have alot of help with that because people I help really appreciate it. Just being able and willing to equip ships for pilots, most pilotshave only a general idea about how everything works is appreciated. They appreciate my time and math. I know what you can fit into each ship. No, if being a part supplier in a consortium is the solution, I will move on.
I run 3 accounts, 4 characters one jedi, do miniumum 10 bh missions a day, grind my jedo to 6.5mil off full template in 2 months, and am grinding another FS character. SW takes barely any of my time 1-2 hours ever couple days and i am a very busy shipwright minimum of 4 mil a week. I keep a vendor stocked with at least 2 of every component. I have been playing a SW and been master since the launch of JTL and am still here.
No factory support required, heres an idea stop complaining and get to work on restocking, you'll find more time in game.
Oh and I have enoug time to come here and post.
Heck I even have time to go to the cantina and just hang out if I want.
pwiffo wrote:
The "uber crafter domination" argument doesnt work anymore.
The solution came not with making everyone suffer away their time clicking, but with the global vendor search. When players can quickly filter down and look at every single Mark IV engine in the galaxy to compare, you cant tell me a few crafters can dominate the market. It wont matter if you use factories or not, if you make a quality product at the lowest price youll succeed. Having this "uber crafter" rep isnt nearly as valuable as it used to be, plan and simple.
If you doubt me then try armorsmith or weaponsmith and have a buddy loan you a suit and resources. Stock a no-name vendor with low prices and good stuff. I promise you itll sell, and quickly at that.
I know this argument is been beaten to death, but things keep coming up that remind me how detremental this lack of support is to our profession:
-I see SWs quitting or going private all the time due to burnout, only adding more demand to existing public SWs.
-And now these "wonderful" buffs add a half hour to every crafting session due to the time it takes to track down an atk musician and get buffed.
SW is an awesome and fun prof, but all the manual clicking involved makes it feel like a job not a game. I want to spend time helping people and collecing sweet resources, not clicking away alone in front of a crafting station. Factory support is what sets SWG a part from other MMO crafting systems, and its a shame we dont have it.
MrHawat wrote:
_____________________________________________________________________________________
I am sorry, but I strongly disagree here. This is not a slam or an insult but do you understand that you have adopted you playing style so that you are no longer a SW? You are a part maker.
Perhaps I should explain a bit more then,
When I was running my own shop, my entire play experience was inside that little room. From the time I logged in to the time I logged out I was either with a customer helping them understand ships/parts, or clicking away making hundreds of parts. Now being a shipwright, I knew what items pilots had most requested. I knew what items would fit in what ships and began to make more of them. No body wanted mark III armor with a reduction kit, they'd always rather have just mark II armor and use the mass somewhere else.
So they day came when I realized that months had gone by and my guild didn't know me anymore and the whole game seemed to have changed around me while I sat in that shop. I was the perfect example of a shipwright as you define it. I even bought space loot and re'd it on the off chance that my stock level was ok. I had tells from new customers all the time. Sometimes I'd have 3 people waiting in my shop for service.
I was even harvesting 90% of all my resources. All of this by myself.
Well then real life started to get a bit jealous considering I was playing at least 3 if not 4 hours a day to make all of that happen. Doing nothing but sitting in that room and helping pilots be really powerfull.
What we have now is a shop that for the most part is always in stock with the best of each component we can make. The best armor, the best weapons (hvy dmg or quickfire), the best engines (fast or quick turn). The 3 of us keep this stocked on vendors so that if a pilot comes in to buy a whole ships worth of parts, we can say well, here... here... here... here.. .here... here... and here... oh and don't forget this ... and here. and here.
In 5 minutes the pilot has a new ship and walks out the door. More often that that though, pilots come in for one or two items they've seen on the bazaar. One of my main concerns when joining forces with this group was that we'd become some sort of walmart and drive everyone else out of business. I think in reality we've captured our own piece of the market and left plenty of room for new or up and coming shipwrights to still make a name for themselves as well as other masters.
Maybe I'm crazy, but when I walked out of that shop and for the first time in months just went and hung out at the cantina with people who were not buying something from me, I had a great time.
I have not forgotten how to outfit a ship or what to suggest to a pilot in need. I still do just about everything I did before except hand craft everything that goes on to the vendor and into people's ships. We share the load and the cost of tapes/resources.
I don't understand how this makes me less of a shipwright. Perhaps I just needed to explain better.
You offer a great alternative for a SW on the road to burnout, but I just dont see it as an argument against factories. Do you truly enjoy the hours spent making all that ship armor?
Just as you didnt want your SW time spent in your shop ever second, Tsam and I (and many others) dont want our time spent navigating through crafting menus. But trying to run a stocked public is downright impossible otherwise. I dont hit the numbers Tsam described, but two 3 hr crafting sessions translates to maybe a half a week of my vendor staying stocked. Raising prices also hasnt helped for me, and I know for a fact Im not the only SW on my server with this problem.
SW is one of the kewlest crafting professions, yet it seems to have the highest burnout rate. It makes sense to blame that on lack of factories.
SWs should have the same tools EVERY other crafting profession enjoys: the ability to automate the most mindless/boring part of crafting.
I'm not 100% on why the developers do not wish to introduce full factory support for shipwrights but I have a few thoughts.
Probably our worst fear as shipwrights is that we won't be able to sell our product. Seldom has it been heard in the commecial world of real life that it is a problem if something sells so well you can't keep it stocked. This is every marketer's dream. We currently have this in our game world shipwright market.
Crafted shipwright components (that don't require loot to manufacture) are in high demand. I've heard many shipwrights here claim that they cannot keep items stocked and must craft for hours only to have the items gone in a day or two.If shipwrights are suddenly able to use factories to increase the supply they have on hand to meet the demand head on, there is probably great concern that this demand will falter.
It is very possible that say 5 to 10 shipwrights per server could craft enough (using factories w/ guild support) to meet the demand. I know that the galactic search would still ensure that the best product for the best price would be found. Still, overall, with less shipwrights "burning out", and more able to meet the demand their shop calls for our magical "fantastic product sells super fast" days of now, would likely fade a bit.
Let's take what I do for example with making armor for my shop. What takes me 3 hours now, would take 20 minutes or less (not counting factory run time). I'd hand craft 3 reinforcement panels schematics (m3 m5 m7) and put them on thefactory to make 100 each. I'd go do something else and come back when the factory was finished. I'd then turn around and factory produce300 pieces of armor.
Let's say my counterparts did the same, that would put 100 of each item we make on our vendors in probably one day if we had enough factories placed. Now lets say that our stuff is really top notch and we are charging a fair price for it.
That's some pretty heavy competition. If we had hired miners or had our guilds mining for us (since ship parts don't require loot) we could do this everyday until we had hundreds of each item we make.
I knowmany arelooking at this from a personal desire to no longer cramp our hands trying to keep the shop stocked. I don't blame you. Yet, is this not a better alternative than to have your products sit on the shelf?
For myself I can easily see a group of shipwrights like I am a part of taking the majority of the component market. Sure factory support would enable a single shipwright to improve stock levels and have more time for RE'ing or whatever, yet the fear that shipwright corporations or partnerships would squeeze out the small "family business" if you will, is to great.
Though I've never heard this fromany dev, I'm not sure we were meant to be liketraditional crafting professions that run everything with one crafter.Our skills are stretched over so many areas, that a shipwright can easily make a living just picking one part of the profession.
Those are just some thoughts of mine that may relate to the decision not to include full factory support.
We seem to be a very successfull profession that has a high probabilty of return on investment to obtain the skill, and a very high probabilty that if you learn how to make great stuff, it will fly off the shelves.
that's my 20 cents at least hehe 
Oh...and I still have time to Hunt. and once a couple of week. I can do this........
My toon is also AS. They have factory support and yet I get custom work requests all the time.. and Im not a high rep smith either. The same would be for SW, you let the publics factory off lotsa parts, yet there will always be a demand for custom/in-person sales. You still hafta work at it to get business, but the type of work is far more intestesting.
So all I can really say to conclude is this: I think factory support would be a great addition to our profession, and I know Im not the only one.
Ill be quiet now