Shipwright Archive

I was just reading through the announcement of Publish 11.4, which will be set live today.
I also read something about it in this forum.

They allow the starterships to be upgraded!!

What does that mean now? Do we still have use of our startships? Does it still make sense to craft them? Does a new novice SW need them only for grinding now?

I'm absolutely unhappy with that change. Not that I need to craft them anymore (still have around 20 in my vendor), but they are of no use to be crafted anymore.

What does a new SW do? He will spend a lot of resources until he reaches the Tier1 chassis, so he can sell them. Until there, it is only a waste of resources and money. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of money only to get there, where I am now. Sure I harvest my own resources. But I still have to buy them.

They better would have spent the startships a hyperdrive, instead of making them upgradeable!

I am complaining here. Yes! This change makes absolutely NO sense!

What is your oppinion?

cheers
Exi

Ps. Don't flame me, because I don't agree with that change.

They also gave them a hyper drive.

It's a real bad idea, in my viewpoint as well.

Heck, the novice tier ship isn't flown for more missions than it takes to get to 1-1-x-x pilot as is.

Mass is too low.

hehehe...I was a cheapskate and waiting for a couple of components to drop as loot, so I flew my starter ship up to 1/1/1/1...and for a tier 2 mission where it nearly got blown apart by a missile or three. Good times....Good times...

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ExcaliburCH wrote:
I was just reading through the announcement of Publish 11.4, which will be set live today.
I also read something about it in this forum.

They allow the starterships to be upgraded!!

What does that mean now? Do we still have use of our startships? Does it still make sense to craft them? Does a new novice SW need them only for grinding now?

I'm absolutely unhappy with that change. Not that I need to craft them anymore (still have around 20 in my vendor), but they are of no use to be crafted anymore.

What does a new SW do? He will spend a lot of resources until he reaches the Tier1 chassis, so he can sell them. Until there, it is only a waste of resources and money. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of money only to get there, where I am now. Sure I harvest my own resources. But I still have to buy them.

They better would have spent the startships a hyperdrive, instead of making them upgradeable!

I am complaining here. Yes! This change makes absolutely NO sense!

What is your oppinion?

cheers
Exi

Ps. Don't flame me, because I don't agree with that change.

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No i totaly agree with you. Not only do we lose any revenue from Tier 1 ships chassis, PvPers no longer take permenanet damage in Deep Space so we won't have any PvPer's coming our way too often. (yes yes I know not many PvP now but that's not the point)
Meddigo

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ExcaliburCH wrote:
I was just reading through the announcement of Publish 11.4, which will be set live today.
I also read something about it in this forum.

They allow the starterships to be upgraded!!

What does that mean now? Do we still have use of our startships? Does it still make sense to craft them? Does a new novice SW need them only for grinding now?

I'm absolutely unhappy with that change. Not that I need to craft them anymore (still have around 20 in my vendor), but they are of no use to be crafted anymore.

What does a new SW do? He will spend a lot of resources until he reaches the Tier1 chassis, so he can sell them. Until there, it is only a waste of resources and money. I know what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of money only to get there, where I am now. Sure I harvest my own resources. But I still have to buy them.

They better would have spent the startships a hyperdrive, instead of making them upgradeable!

I am complaining here. Yes! This change makes absolutely NO sense!

What is your oppinion?

cheers
Exi

Ps. Don't flame me, because I don't agree with that change.

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I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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Vaxon wrote:



I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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What are you talking about? Do you have any idea how many resources goes into a ship?

I pay 4cpu for my resources - and charge 5cpu for ships. A X-wing runs you 300k - thats 240k to the miner and 60k to me. The miner makes a 200k+ profit - I get 60k. This is the norm pricing for 90% of shipwrights on chasis right now.

I'm overcharging?!?!

Maybe we should charge what an Armorsmith charges - that'll be 1.5million creditsper X-wing please....

The noobie ship chasis is almost exactly the same stats I can craft btw - so the 30 I have on my vendor are now worthless.

I find these new changes entirely frustrating to those of us that became shipwrights, not to generate tons of credits, but to simply be able to craft starships. The original reason I bought, installed and setup an account for Star Wars Galaxies on day one was purely for the reason of being able to craft Starships.

I understand that adding JTL took more then 6 months, that's entirely forgivable. I can partly understand the higher resource requirements for starships, compared to other items, I still wish they were lower then they are.

However, these new changes will only negatively impact those of us that sell starships for an affordable price range. I have no intention of ever charging the exhorbinant prices most Shipwrights charge for their wares and have been known to let A-Wings go for as little as 160k, which is only 2 Credits Per Resource Unit used, BTW.

I was seriously hoping that the Devs would have lowered the resource requirements and thus prices for starships and at the same time institute some kind of penalty for flying a ship that originally had 2500 Hit Points maximum but has decayed down to 500 Hit Points, like a percentage drop off in YPR and Max speed modifiers and or periodic power issues that could disrupt components.

Then, in order to offset those issues they could create 'half-chassis' schematics that would allow shipwrights to craft 'Chassis Refresh' kits that would use half the resources of the original chassis and are used to simply refresh the existing chassis to the Hit Points and Mass of the 'half-chassis'.

I am very unhappy with these new changes being put into place. I really had hoped that the devs do something to add more actual benefits as well as penalties to the game. Taking away all the penalties only cheapens the Star Wars Experience.

I seriously have more fun playing the Old d6 West End Games Star Wars the Role-Playing Game, Second Edition, where there is actual danger and penalties to my character. Which, by the way has lost a limb and has been scarred from fumbling a few times during some lightsaber duels. It's a Jedi Campaign, all PCs are Jedi of various disciplines.

My play experience would be far greater if such things were indeed possible in Star Wars Galaxies. I would even move to a different server, which would be difficult to do since I have played almost exclusively on the same server since day one, in order to have that play experience. I am certain that a large number of players would follow me and a large number would return to SWG for that kind of play experience. It could be advertised as an 18 or over server with a more 'gritty' reality rules in place.

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1st_Viduus wrote:

How did we do this to ourselves?

Most SW sell their grind hulls at 1/2 cost... that's a 50% loss on resources... to try to recover a little of the 35mill it costs to produce the crap.

If you want to blame someone for the prices, blame SOE for making the resource requirements too high.

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Many SWs had a large stockpile that they and or their guild collected themselves or continue to do so. If you are paying 6cpu for resources, then think about where you are buying your stuff from. Maybe choose a different vendor.

If you think about how much it costs to collect the resources, it comes out to less than .5 credits a resource unit (some are much cheaper, like energy).

and you only talked about the chassis, that doesn't even touch the other stuff that is needed to make a ship work. I have seen many vendors charging 10k for level 1 parts.. How is a newbie supposed to get that kind of cash? You are looking at an outlay of 20K just to move from planet to planet. Now, if you want to fly this in space, you are looking at 70K+. even at half price of 35k, how is a newbie supposed to come up with that? It isn't like JTL is anything you can make good cash at (which I personally think sucks because I would be happy never touching the ground game again).

Think about this, and see what the starter ships are actually like before you start to complain about them.

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Vaxon wrote:

I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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Vaxon wrote:

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1st_Viduus wrote:

How did we do this to ourselves?

Most SW sell their grind hulls at 1/2 cost... that's a 50% loss on resources... to try to recover a little of the 35mill it costs to produce the crap.

If you want to blame someone for the prices, blame SOE for making the resource requirements too high.

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Many SWs had a large stockpile that they and or their guild collected themselves or continue to do so. If you are paying 6cpu for resources, then think about where you are buying your stuff from. Maybe choose a different vendor.

If you think about how much it costs to collect the resources, it comes out to less than .5 credits a resource unit (some are much cheaper, like energy).

and you only talked about the chassis, that doesn't even touch the other stuff that is needed to make a ship work. I have seen many vendors charging 10k for level 1 parts.. How is a newbie supposed to get that kind of cash? You are looking at an outlay of 20K just to move from planet to planet. Now, if you want to fly this in space, you are looking at 70K+. even at half price of 35k, how is a newbie supposed to come up with that? It isn't like JTL is anything you can make good cash at (which I personally think sucks because I would be happy never touching the ground game again).

Think about this, and see what the starter ships are actually like before you start to complain about them.

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Most shipwrights go thru 4.8million units of resources to grind to Master. Most shipwrights do not have guilds of that size to support them either.

Parts going for 10k+ are using HIGH Stat resources costing in the 5-20cpu range - again take it to the miners who are gouging, not the shpwrights. Shipwright has one of the lowest profit margins in the game.

I HAVE seen how the starter ships are going to be - on TC, so I can complain all I want.

You seem to be the one whithout a clue here.

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Rogue1970 wrote:

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Vaxon wrote:



I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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What are you talking about? Do you have any idea how many resources goes into a ship?

I pay 4cpu for my resources - and charge 5cpu for ships. A X-wing runs you 300k - thats 240k to the miner and 60k to me. The miner makes a 200k+ profit - I get 60k. This is the norm pricing for 90% of shipwrights on chasis right now.

I'm overcharging?!?!

Maybe we should charge what an Armorsmith charges - that'll be 1.5million credits per X-wing please....

The noobie ship chasis is almost exactly the same stats I can craft btw - so the 30 I have on my vendor are now worthless.

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They are not useless, people are still going to need them if they blow theirs up too badly.

As for you being charged 4 cpu then you need to find a better dealer. There is no sane reason resources should cost that much. make friends, and throw harvesters down with your account, and friends lots. Give them a deal if they wont just help you with lots they aren't using. Give them discounts or free stuff if they have good harvesters runing for you. Granted this means a little more work for you, finding the resource spawns, and then mailing the wps to friends, but that is better for you, and your clients than overcharging everyone for things. And yes, I do know how many resources go into ships, I am working on harvesting the resources I need now for a SW.

Right now miners can get away with charging super stupid prices for things because smiths are willing to pay super stupid prices for them. If people started harvesting their own stuff, things would change quite a bit. I assume more people will be harvesting more now because missions/grouping have changed, and there is no longer easy money in them.


Also, you talked about prices, how much do you charge for your components? I know many SWs charge 15-30+ cpu for items, That does pretty much fall in line with weapons smiths... so SWs have nothing to complain about there (and yes, I know cap's are better looted, but you still have 9 other compnnents in star ships that you can make well, not including reusables like missles/chaff packs and such.

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Loki_Ashaman wrote:

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Vaxon wrote:

I would say you all did this to yourselves. I am starting a new character and there is NO way I can afford the prices SWs are charging for anything unless I get help from others... It isn't like most crafters especailly SWs are going broke... most of them charge WAY too much for their ships as it is.

I think this is a wonderful change, especailly for those people just starting out.

Also, if you look at it from a logical standpoint, a chip is a ship is a ship, there isn't any good reason the starter ship shouldn't have been upgradeable to begin with.

Also, I am sure that the ship isn't a great quality ship, I am sure it has limitations to it that will make the novice pilot want to upgrade. Why not wait and see before you start whining about something you have no practical knowlede of.

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It take 5000 units of resources to make a starter ship, a novice ship wright has to make somewhere between 10 and 15 to get their first box... and now every newb pilot gets one for free. As a master SW, I don't really mind - it sucks, specially since I've built a few for stocking, but its not a hard hit to me - but to a NOVICE SW just starting his grind, this sucks immensely.

Shipwright is a profession where the casual player is supposed to be competitive against the powergamer, where the starting craftsman has a market compared to the master... but now the market has been effectivily pulled out from under the novice, screwing him out of the only revenue he has. Many new shipwrights don't have hoards of resources and money, for them they are just starting out. They won't plan to grind straight to master, but will slowly build their way up, trying to build a name for themselves - only now, their first source of revenue is obsolete. SOE has just told them to take 50K+ units of resources, and throw them away.

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Look at this the other way around... SW is an elite profession, not a starting profession, you have to grind through at least 1 tree in artisan to get there, 2 if you want better results..

Pilot is a starting profession. Who has the worse deal here, and who should be catered to? Yeah, SW is going to go through some credits to get profitable, but you have a much higher profit margin than a pilot ever will. Also, if a SW harvests their own resources, you can still sell on a bazaar for 5k and make almost 50% profit, which is a very good profit margin.

Like I said before, with the insane decay of 10% many newbie pilots are going to need a new chassis before long anyway, so this isn't really that big a deal. Event worse case, they have to grind through 10-15 ships, and dump them, they can still start making other ships and selling those for profit as soon as they sell them. Look at every other profession that has to craft. They craft a ton of stuff in practice mode just to get to a useable product. Why would SW be any different?