Shipwright Archive
Thread: Please post in the threads reached by the stickies at the top =)
IIscandar
Fri May 06, 2005 12:52 am
#14
Lots of good input in this thread and I will save it, but for now, let's just move out of it and into the stickied stuff.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-10-2005 05:55 PM
Sar-larid
Fri May 06, 2005 4:23 am
#15
Added to the issues of certain starship weapons that still work but are not showing a physical graphic on the hullsof certain ships or in certain slots(a lot on the Krayt, for instance):
The Tractor Beam does NOT appear on the Hull of the Rihkxyrk when in Slot 1. It still fires, but has the "Center of ship/or/all the other gun mounts" firing effect.
Rypht
Fri May 06, 2005 4:32 am
#16
I would be interested to see if the new POB capacitors actually are decent now, still not happy with the quality of crafted capacitors (and engines for that matter).
We really need some kind of random event within crafting to allow an exceptional item to be created, I mean we're forced to hand craft, its not like we could exploit it.
Allow me to throw my name in the list of highly disappointed shipwrights, only reason I even bought wookiee world was to craft the new ships.
Ashet
Fri May 06, 2005 5:21 am
#17
Myself and another correspondent have posted about this issue to the devs. It's kinda late though, not sure we will hear anything tonight.
Here is my take on this.
Yes, there are a few chassis out of all of them that we cannot make as shipwrights. While I'd like to be able to craft every ship related object in the game, I can spend 4 hoursa day doing nothing but crafting and still not keep a fully stocked shop when I am really on a run. The high end market for shipwright components on corbantis is very good. The market for reverse engineered items of high quality is doing very well.
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components. Now we have even more parts to create, includingcomponents needed for these miners to go out and get big loads of the resources fast.
Many pilots will want these new ships, and they will want components for them. We always made more credits off the components anyway since they are not high sounding prices like those resource hogging chassis. =)
Its true we make more money off componenets, but ship chasis are often the first interaction we have with a new customer. Most ship chasis on my world are not built by MSW, and the fact that I do and get more mass and hit points has always been the start of a new relationship.
Its true we have good business, but the fact that is that its still a kick in the teeth. We are no longer about starship constructioon, but about aftermarket improvements. But my point is not that we are losing money on this, but the direction of the game is to minimize the importance of crafters and make life easier for the all mighty combatant.
Ship chasis was soley in our hands, the only part of the ship trade that was. Now they are making inroads. We ought to fight like heck to maintain it.
*edited for spelling*
Message Edited by Ashet on 05-06-2005 08:53 AM
Rilnax
Fri May 06, 2005 5:49 am
#18
What is this loot'centric mentality!? Crafted parts, for the most part, have always been inferior to looted parts. ALL of the new ships are quest rewards. What's the point of being a shipwright? Why not just make munitions and texture kitsan engineering 4 thing and do away with the class entirely?
The new heavy varient novice level ships are INSANE, the new add on's (strakes and such) are utterly worthless, and combined with the glories brought to crafters by the CU I'm having a much harder time justifying keeping my account active.
RE parts should be the best. Crafted parts should be next, with straight looted parts being the worst. ALL ships should be craftable. The new ships can be quest rewards in the form of limited use schematics. The heavy varient novice ships should not out perform ships at higher pilot ratings period.
There needs to be alot of work on these issues.
Jagged-F3l
Fri May 06, 2005 6:13 am
#19
The following list summarizes my issues thus far:
- I don't have a problem with the components given to you throughout the space mining quest. In a work, they "suck". I have crafted at least one of each cargo holds, mining lasers, and tractor beam and can definitely conclude that crafted components are superior to the "salvaged" components given to you. However, I am disappointed that the mining quest ends with the Y-8 being given to the player as a reward in deed form. I shudder to think how many resources the Y-8 would consume; however, why are we being cut out of the loop here?
- Why do ALL the new schematics require asteroid resources? Given the effort required to obtain some of these resources, it is my opinion that it is simply stupid that we need them for some of the new items, with emphasis on texture kits and chassis (and maybe the mass enhancement items, like strakes).
- I've said it before, and I'm saying it again, I think the proliferation of texture kits has reached the point of madness. Not only did the devs give us new texture kits 7 & 8, but these texture kits have ship-specific variants. This is simply madness. It isn't just driving us shipwrights crazy, but customers as well. I'm so utterly sick and tired of trying to come up with a response to the question, "What texture should I buy?" I usually resort to telling my customers to buy one of each, try them all, and them come back and buy the one they really want. I propose that all texture kits be collapsed into a single texture that allows the player to choose between all the particular styles according to the ship that it is being applied. If the devs did this, then I would not even mind if the schematic be made a little more complex, like droid or vehicle customization kits.
- I'd like to propose that the devs do one of the following. Either change the resource requirements ofpaint, texture, and repair kits to use "Chemical", instead of "Inert Petrochemical" or "Fiberplast", ormodify chemical recyclers to recycle polymers/oils into "Inert Petrochemical" and fiberplast insome "Recycled Fiberplast" (or something like this).
- I don't know if this is the right forum to bring up specific ship issues, but the Y-8 has a lot of problems. First, there aren't nearly enough weapon slots tosupport a serious mining operation from a Y-8. Myself and my friends have found it faster to do this from a starfighter. Second, the positioning of the weaponhardpoints is simply terrible. Who designed the Y-8? Have they attempted to carry out serious mining operations given the current design? I don't think so. Finally,the "captain's chair" (i.e., thepilot's position) has been placed waytoo far back from the windows to be practical. Either it has to be moved forward, or the canopy needs to be"opened up" (more transparisteel).
- Again, don't know if this is the right forum to bring up component issues, but mining lasers and the tractorbeam bothcreate this vertical lighting effect when fired that makes it impossible to see through the cockpit with this effect. I don't know ifthis effect is intentional or not, butI'd like to see it go away. In addition, can we loose the particleeffects as well. They're just plain stupid looking.
- The categorization of our schematicsneeds to be tidied up. Thereare new categories for "unknown items". There is actually a ship chassis that we can craft into deed form (not a schematic) in a category by itself.I haven't actually crafted it, butthe item says its a deed, not a schematic.
That's all I can think off the bat. IfI think of more, I'll edit this message.
silversaber
Fri May 06, 2005 8:19 am
#20
IIscandar wrote:
Myself and another correspondent have posted about this issue to the devs. It's kinda late though, not sure we will hear anything tonight.
Here is my take on this.
Yes, there are a few chassis out of all of them that we cannot make as shipwrights. While I'd like to be able to craft every ship related object in the game, I can spend 4 hoursa day doing nothing but crafting and still not keep a fully stocked shop when I am really on a run. The high end market for shipwright components on corbantis is very good. The market for reverse engineered items of high quality is doing very well.
A few? Can we say ALL of the decent ships are quest given? Tell me, where is my market for selling X-wings where the players canbe givensomething FAR superiour just by doing a quest? Or Tie fighters?
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components. Now we have even more parts to create, includingcomponents needed for these miners to go out and get big loads of the resources fast.
So what your saying is,the focus for our profession is making COMPONENTS?And not ship chassis? I don not know about anyone else, but this is NOT why I made a Shipwright, not to just make or RE components!
Many pilots will want these new ships, and they will want components for them. We always made more credits off the components anyway since they are not high sounding prices like those resource hogging chassis. =)
So we are just supposed to smile and say OK, I am no longer a Shipwright but a Shipoutfitter?
What in blue bloody blazes madedo you think that this is acceptable?
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-06-2005 01:00 AM
BonesDragon
Fri May 06, 2005 8:40 am
#21
Jagged-F3l wrote:
- Why do ALL the new schematics require asteroid resources? Given the effort required to obtain some of these resources, it is my opinion that it is simply stupid that we need them for some of the new items, with emphasis on texture kits and chassis (and maybe the mass enhancement items, like strakes).
- I've said it before, and I'm saying it again, I think the proliferation of texture kits has reached the point of madness. Not only did the devs give us new texture kits 7 & 8, but these texture kits have ship-specific variants. This is simply madness. It isn't just driving us shipwrights crazy, but customers as well. I'm so utterly sick and tired of trying to come up with a response to the question, "What texture should I buy?" I usually resort to telling my customers to buy one of each, try them all, and them come back and buy the one they really want. I propose that all texture kits be collapsed into a single texture that allows the player to choose between all the particular styles according to the ship that it is being applied. If the devs did this, then I would not even mind if the schematic be made a little more complex, like droid or vehicle customization kits.
- I'd like to propose that the devs do one of the following. Either change the resource requirements of paint, texture, and repair kits to use "Chemical", instead of "Inert Petrochemical" or "Fiberplast", or modify chemical recyclers to recycle polymers/oils into "Inert Petrochemical" and fiberplast in some "Recycled Fiberplast" (or something like this).
- I don't know if this is the right forum to bring up specific ship issues, but the Y-8 has a lot of problems. First, there aren't nearly enough weapon slots to support a serious mining operation from a Y-8. Myself and my friends have found it faster to do this from a starfighter. Second, the positioning of the weapon hardpoints is simply terrible. Who designed the Y-8? Have they attempted to carry out serious mining operations given the current design? I don't think so. Finally, the "captain's chair" (i.e., the pilot's position) has been placed way too far back from the windows to be practical. Either it has to be moved forward, or the canopy needs to be "opened up" (more transparisteel).
As far as the resource requirements, with all new items requiring asteroid materials, I consider that to be a good thing (considering they left existing schematics alone). It means that the new items will have a certain price-floor to them, unless some SWs simply enjoy mining so much that they don't care about profit. It also means that the abundance will be lower than a lot of other items, making them slightly less common. Some of the cosmetic customizations will likewise be a little more uncommon OR more money goes in our pockets. Either way I think it's a win.
For the texture kits being consolidated... yeah, I agree.
There are websites that have the pictures, and that's what I go by. But it would be nice to have an in-game method of picking the one you want from an interface.And I also agree on the resource generality for basic items like paint and repair kits. It would be great if they just required "metal" and "chemical". It's so easy to end up with material remnants after building chassis and components that can't easily be used for something useful. It would be nice to be able to at least put that towards paint kits or something.
I don't mind the seating position in the Y-8 so much, but I agree the turret placement seems odd. If the rear turret were moved to the underside of the bridge, it might be significantly better. It seems to me that there's really no practical way to use a tractor beam on this ship, and insetead you'd want to load up on mining lasers, and use the forward (pilot controlled) gun to break chunks off, and have the turret gunners just blast the chunks. I have a feeling my Y-8 is going to be more of a yacht than a practical ship.
Or perhaps, allow a tractor to be added to each turret that the gunner can control. That would probably work very nicely.
Message Edited by BonesDragon on 05-06-2005 11:41 AM
IIscandar
Fri May 06, 2005 8:45 am
#22
My replies in blue
silversaber wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
Myself and another correspondent have posted about this issue to the devs. It's kinda late though, not sure we will hear anything tonight.
Here is my take on this.
Yes, there are a few chassis out of all of them that we cannot make as shipwrights. While I'd like to be able to craft every ship related object in the game, I can spend 4 hoursa day doing nothing but crafting and still not keep a fully stocked shop when I am really on a run. The high end market for shipwright components on corbantis is very good. The market for reverse engineered items of high quality is doing very well.
A few? Can we say ALL of the decent ships are quest given? Tell me, where is my market for selling X-wings where the players canbe givensomething FAR superiour just by doing a quest? Or Tie fighters?
I'm only giving you my personal opinion. I've already passed your concerns as well as everyone else on this shipwright forum to thedevs. These newships are on the higher lvl side pilot wise, so for Tier 3 and below, there is still a very viable market for chassis. You have to be a tier 4 pilot to get the new Xwing, and only a tier 3 to get the old one. It seems to me that a rebel pilot who just hit Tier 3 will still want an Xwing. Same situation with the new red Tie interceptor. Tier 3 pilots will probably still want an interceptor crafted by a shipwright to help them get to the red one.
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components. Now we have even more parts to create, includingcomponents needed for these miners to go out and get big loads of the resources fast.
So what your saying is,the focus for our profession is making COMPONENTS?And not ship chassis? I don not know about anyone else, but this is NOT why I made a Shipwright, not to just make or RE components!
The new chassis we can make require the new resources.
Many pilots will want these new ships, and they will want components for them. We always made more credits off the components anyway since they are not high sounding prices like those resource hogging chassis. =)
So we are just supposed to smile and say OK, I am no longer a Shipwright but a Shipoutfitter?
What in blue bloody blazes madedo you think that this is acceptable?
No, as I said I've already expressed the concern shared by several of you to the devs.
Golrok
Fri May 06, 2005 8:46 am
#23
I mainly deal components so not being able to craft those new ships is kind of a blessing to me. I was not looking forward to everyones tellswanting new chasis's crafted. I love being in the tailgun of some Tier 4 ship thats top speed is like600 and a capacitor max of 850. They go through all that trouble to get a top chasiswhile everything else lacks.
IIscandar
Fri May 06, 2005 9:24 am
#24
WaiterFurall wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components.
How much are you paying them on your server?
Not sure where the prices will end up, but I've just made a deal that should keep the empire out of ... hehe 5cpu for now is what I will pay for a regular supply. We'll see where it goes from here.
Tartuffe
Fri May 06, 2005 9:27 am
#25
IIscandar wrote:
Myself and another correspondent have posted about this issue to the devs. It's kinda late though, not sure we will hear anything tonight.
Here is my take on this.
Yes, there are a few chassis out of all of them that we cannot make as shipwrights. While I'd like to be able to craft every ship related object in the game, I can spend 4 hoursa day doing nothing but crafting and still not keep a fully stocked shop when I am really on a run. The high end market for shipwright components on corbantis is very good. The market for reverse engineered items of high quality is doing very well.
...um, as I recall one of the key points that SOE was making (at least until recently)about how SWG was better than the other MMOs was a "player-based" economy. Have the Devs decided this was a bad idea? The "Current Mannual" on the SWG site still says:
"Crafting is a key component of the economy in Star Wars™ Galaxies. Artisans and other related characters (including Weaponsmiths, Tailors and even Cooks) can build virtually anything..."
IMNSHO, 'Virtually anything' and a 'Player-based economy' would indicate that a player should not be able to fundamentally bypass the crafting community for equipment, and with these new ships being deeds coupled with the superior loot vs. crafted components the SW profession is quickly headed towards being revamped to becom Missle Engineers.
Has anyone brought up to the Devs they are failing to deliver on one of the features they were so proud of 2 years ago? If so, do they have a response? If not, why not?
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components. Now we have even more parts to create, includingcomponents needed for these miners to go out and get big loads of the resources fast.
Many pilots will want these new ships, and they will want components for them. We always made more credits off the components anyway since they are not high sounding prices like those resource hogging chassis. =)
To me this is not about the credits... it is about the player-based economy I signed up for and how it is evaporating
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-06-2005 01:00 AM
IIscandar,
I'm not trying to rail on you about this, but I don't have a direct line to the Devs and there is no good indication they even truely read our posts anymore. I just want to make sure they realize they are not only failing to deliver, but actively dismantling,what was (at least from my perspecticve)oneof a fewkey componenet of SWG
I'm not even currently a ShipWright (will be again as soon as I unlock my second character slot), but I want to buy my ships from one, not have generic, non-experimental versions of them handed out by NPCs
I appreciate everything you do for this group and wish you luck trying to wake up the Devs
IIscandar
Fri May 06, 2005 9:33 am
#26
Tartuffe wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
Myself and another correspondent have posted about this issue to the devs. It's kinda late though, not sure we will hear anything tonight.
Here is my take on this.
Yes, there are a few chassis out of all of them that we cannot make as shipwrights. While I'd like to be able to craft every ship related object in the game, I can spend 4 hoursa day doing nothing but crafting and still not keep a fully stocked shop when I am really on a run. The high end market for shipwright components on corbantis is very good. The market for reverse engineered items of high quality is doing very well.
...um, as I recall one of the key points that SOE was making (at least until recently)about how SWG was better than the other MMOs was a "player-based" economy. Have the Devs decided this was a bad idea? The "Current Mannual" on the SWG site still says:
"Crafting is a key component of the economy in Star Wars™ Galaxies. Artisans and other related characters (including Weaponsmiths, Tailors and even Cooks) can build virtually anything..."
IMNSHO, 'Virtually anything' and a 'Player-based economy' would indicate that a player should not be able to fundamentally bypass the crafting community for equipment, and with these new ships being deeds coupled with the superior loot vs. crafted components the SW profession is quickly headed towards being revamped to becom Missle Engineers.
Has anyone brought up to the Devs they are failing to deliver on one of the features they were so proud of 2 years ago? If so, do they have a response? If not, why not?
As soon as the asteroid miners get in full swing, we will see a steady supply of resouces to make the new POB ship components. Now we have even more parts to create, includingcomponents needed for these miners to go out and get big loads of the resources fast.
Many pilots will want these new ships, and they will want components for them. We always made more credits off the components anyway since they are not high sounding prices like those resource hogging chassis. =)
To me this is not about the credits... it is about the player-based economy I signed up for and how it is evaporating
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-06-200501:00 AM
IIscandar,
I'm not trying to rail on you about this, but I don't have a direct line to the Devs and there is no good indication they even truely read our posts anymore. I just want to make sure they realize they are not only failing to deliver, but actively dismantling,what was (at least from my perspecticve)oneof a fewkey componenet of SWG
I'm not even currently a ShipWright (will be again as soon as I unlock my second character slot), but I want to buy my ships from one, not have generic, non-experimental versions of them handed out by NPCs
I appreciate everything you do for this group and wish you luck trying to wake up the Devs
Thanks for clarifying your intent =)
Here is what I posted to them on this issue. A few other folks have chimed in on this issue as well.
Shipwrights, for the large part, seem to be focusing on learning how to make the new components, start space mining, and the new quests. There are some that are making it very clear they are unhappy about the decision to makeso many ships"reward only". While, I've suggested that these ships will still need new components, I think most shipwrights are wondering why the new shipswere implemented in this way.
Anything I could tell them that mightcool downsome of thesehot coals that have suddenly shown up on the shipwright forum?
Thanks!
I know this will be read. What I don't know is when I'll hear something back about it. Still, the word is out there.
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-06-2005 11:34 AM