Shipwright Archive

Message Edited by Fishbreath on 02-17-2005 08:24 PM

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

Hmm, whoever it was 1-starred me too. Eh, ignore them - For some reason people think this actually hurts people's feelings or makes their points less credible - funny actually. Anyway, I've pretty much come to an understanding of how you guys feel and what yall are saying, really. Only 1 question though. Regarding the earlier comments:

Yes, he's a Master, providing a "premium" service no one else can.

He's a Master providing a "premium" service no one else can.

He's a Master providing a "premium" service no one else can, and deserves to be adequately compensated.

Yes, all of that is true, but doesnt that apply to EVERY ship that only a MSW can craft, not just the firespray? And, if it does, your saying you should getas huge a pay asfor the firesprayfor anything you do since your a master, providing a premium service no one else can, be it a firespray or any other ship only the master can craft? The reasoning your giving is not because its a firespray here, its because your a master providing a premium service. So it cant only apply to one thing and still make sense. Otherwise, its only because its a firespray and nothing to do with being a master.

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It's both. Look at crafted items that are relatively the same in game - A Scythe for a weaponsmith, RIS armor for an Armorsmith, Mandalorian Wine for chefs - They take on a "mystique" because they are rare, and with rarity, comes expense.

Or to put it more succinctly:

Master Levels ships we can make as a matter of level are considered "normal" goods.

Master level ship (Firespray) is extremely limited, and considered "premium" goods.

The easiest "real world" example I can use is a "custom" car. The Shelby GT is very close to a normal GT in quality (Just as the Firespray is to a Krayt fighter). When you go into a dealership, and order a standard vehicle in a special color, you will receive a car that color (Unless it's a "special" paint, then there's a small upcharge) for the same amount of cash you'd pay for one in another color already in the dealership. But if you go to buy a GT, and decide you'd rather have the Shelby version - you pay more, *even though it is essentially the same vehicle*

Message Edited by amandastarcrest on 02-19-2005 03:57 PM

:** A'manda Starcrest **

*Starcrest Manufacturing*

WP -3950 4050 Theed Naboo

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Phaelyn wrote:

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

thnx for replies everyone. Can I ask a question though? It seems like, in all those senarios, I owe the shipwright something other than a fee for crafting and his resources just because he's making MY firespray? Why is this? Nothing to do with the firespray what-so-ever is the shipwrights. I'm supplying the firespray disks, not him. Why would I give him one of the blueprints or part of the proffit of selling them? I'm paying him for work and resources, but the disks and firesprays are not his, so, and I'm not trying to be smart, can someone explain this to me, as its confusing.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 02-17-2005 06:56 PM

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A fair question, and I'll give you my view.

You see, if you bring it to ME, there's a reason - You can't do it yourself. You are bringing me what is essentially one of the more rare things in the game, and are expecting me to craft it for the same price I would craft a common item. In turn, I am considering several factors - Those being:

1. Prestige: I want other people to know I made this. It is the Shipwright's crowning achievement, after all.


2. Reward: May sound like Greed, and in essence, it is - But why am I going to make a Rare item for Common prices? After all, I can refuse you outright, wait till I get the disks on my own, and keep ALL the profits.


3. Expertise: As I said, you need my experience and skill level - Without me, you plain can't do it, whereas I CAN do it all myself.

What it really all boils down to is this - You are looking at it as any other commodity, which it really isn't. It's rare, and in MY opinion, should be treated as such. If I make you 4 Firespray at 450k, I make 1.8 million. If I make 4 Krayt master ships, I make 1.8 million. - Where is my incentive?

Also, let me give you a review of the crafting process involved:

1. Insert 8 disks into a Component Analysis Tool, RE the disks and get the Schematic.


2. Learn the Schematic. (Key point here: Once learned, Schematic can only be used by me)


3. Compare needed stats, and select appropriate resources to use.


4. Input Resources, experiment for optimazation.


5. Rinse and Repeat steps 3 and 4 till all ships are complete.

I understand how you wish what you went to the effort to buy to be yours. It's only common sense. But, common sense also dictates that if you provide a schematic, and *I* provide the expertise, we are in essence partners for a limited duration of time. Consider that I can do it without you at all, and you cannever do it without me.

I'm not sure if I really made it clear in my first response to you - But I for one wouldn't take your contract, no matter how much you offered. For a Shipwright, making a Firespray is essentiallythe professions'"end game", and in a very real sense, I feel that unless i "earned" all the parts through RE, and did it all myself - I have taken a shortcut to that end.

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 02-17-2005 11:00 PM

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:** A'manda Starcrest **

*Starcrest Manufacturing*

WP -3950 4050 Theed Naboo

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 02-19-2005 09:01 PM

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

Hi again ; ) Hopefully no hard feelings to anyone throughout this whole discussion. I decided it wasnt worth all the hassel, sold the 2 disks i DID have, and bought a firespray chasis. I still, however, disagree to an extent about some of the views here. If somone provided an av-21 schem and powerplant, along w/ all resources necessarry to make it to(whoever makes it, not sure), should they charge more than normal only because its an av-21 their making, and their not even paying for the resources? If someone provides a de-10 schem, barrel, AND resources to a master weaponsmith, should he charge them more to make it just because its a de-10 than any other master level weapon, even though he's not paying for the resources used or any of the parts, only crafting? If mando didnt have to be made in the DWB and required everything it does now except maybe also a schem, and somone provided all the things, including the BH armor, and resources to an armorsmith, should he charge more just because its mando, even though he didnt provide ANY components? I say no to all of those, and its the exact same situation w/ the firespray.

Well, not sure what it's like on your server, so I can't speak to that. but on Radiant, we have a group that's VERY proficient at doing the DWB and crafting jetpacks. Now, while they are in there, they get XP, a fun time, and the satisfaction of crafting a rare item. Do you think they do it for free? No - In fact they place a charge that must be paid to EACH member of the group. They don't even get the parts for the player - they just construct it. And they charge a premium for doing so. It's the same situation I explained - It's a rare item, and the expertise to do the job deserves to be paid for.

If the shipwright provides NO components, only the service, the actual service itself is no different than the same service he provides by making any ship. Its just construction w/out having to provide any of the essential materials. I think any crafter who charges someone extra in any of the examples I just mentioned is taking advantage of their customer, and having a double standard, and it wouldnt take them any more work(actualy less if the person provides all the materials) to make what the person is ordering than any other regular item.

Did you see my key statement in my responses to you? I would never havetaken your job, because simply it's against my principles. I too have a problem charging extra for doing what's considered "my job" - And to avoid that, I just would outright refuse to do it. But, if I *were* to take your job, I would charge you a premium.

All that said, however, i really have no stake in the whole thing anymore, as i have my firespray, but it still saddens me a little to know that people would treat other players like this. But I guess everybody has to make their own decisions. And I'm not saying the crafter who did this is wrong, i dont presume to be able to say what is right and wrong. All I have is my humble opinion.

Look on the flipside for a moment. You in your original theory would have had me make the ships for a pittance - And then turned around and sold the ships for a fortune. Is this any better way to treat another player?

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 02-19-2005 09:01 PM

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No one has indicated that they would get a 50-50 split with you....I said earlier keeping 1......

Done.