Shipwright Archive
Thread: The People Have Spoken... (poll results)
Kalano wrote:
SW is a true dabbling crafting profession.
What sense does that make? Think about it.
Starships, dabbling, no factories... Huh? This aint cupcakes we're talking about. Of any profession in the game, starship manufacturing runs counter to your statement more than any other product in the game.
Peta is not me. If you're laughing, you're not reading son.
CerionSkydreamer wrote:
Oh, I read the posts, all 5 pages of them. And it did make me laugh, just not in the way you intended it to Destiny/Petabyte/Industry/
Jacquelyn wrote:
Other"AFKpower players" who have tons of money and can just buy up all of the best resources,popa schematic into a factory, and run do other things or even log off while killing the game for the ones who actually playthe game as aMMORP rather than a RTS.
Nonsense. I've got lot limitations and the same limitations that all the other players do, learn to be productive. If you choose to craft by hand and sample by hand rather than use a harvester, that's role playing? When did we learn that they didn't have technology in Star Wars? Are you confusing Sci-Fi Star Wars with Fantasy Sword epics? Last I looked Star Wars had industry and cities, and technology, and mass produced items. Where's that in your role playing?
Factories are what put the "real" artisans out of business by the "power" players who dont even want to waste the time of being in their shop and greeting a customer as they come through the door.
Thelack of factory support give a little protection to the people who are actually in the shipwright business because they want to work on ships and their components.
Nonsense, read below (and all the posts preceding yours that you didn'tread.)
I slaved for over a year as a weaponsmith tryting to put together all of the good resources that I could. I would make some very exceptional weapons at times, but I saw other weaponsmith house which were completely filled with enough mass produced high level weaponry that they did not even need to "play" a weaponsmith anymore. They just visited their shop occasionally and popped a few hundred mass produced goods onto a vendor and went back to what they were doing before while killing off the people who actually wanted to roleplay the profession.
Cant say what you were doing wrong if you actually did this for a year. But my suggestion would be to get informed, apprentice to someone who know how to get the job done, or join a supportive guild, rather than presume that the factories are your downfall.
Factories, like harvesters, are a matter of convenience, enabling us to keep vendors stocked in x-% of the effort and repeated, redundant processes that we would otherwise have to do, so i can do it once every two weeks instead of every 3 days, for example, impacting my gametime, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the game, my time spent... not anyone elses.
RedDestinyCC wrote:
Kalano wrote:
SW is a true dabbling crafting profession.
What sense does that make? Think about it.
Starships, dabbling, no factories... Huh? This aint cupcakes we're talking about. Of any profession in the game, starship manufacturing runs counter to your statement more than any other product in the game.
Have you tried looking into what i see? all other crafting professions you must master or at least get 2 tiers for experimentation to work and have any compentency in making good product.
SW, you only need one tier if you just want to do engines. yeah, i make mark v at master, but not everyone will use a mark v and all i lose is 1 to 2 points in experimentation? Now, if i just specialized in engines. How much better will i be over those who do everything? i will learn the in's and out's better than others since that will be all i do. Why do i need a factory then? i am only doing engines.
The only people who need factories are those who are trying to capture the whole market. not going be easy and will be time comsuming. But heck, i can specialize and be the go to guy for engines. Now that is something that others will see and come by saying, i got a Dune Lizard, make me the best engine for that. And i will be able to do that right off the bat, i would know the tricks, the level able to fit and get the best out of the engine for that ship type.
Now, what if i also like to do a bit of armorsmith on the side, ie: it is for my characture template type. I would want to be best at that part of the armor, maybe i just want to do PVG (that right? been so long) and since i love commando, i do heavy weapons as an armorsmith. That would be dabbling, wouldn't it? but right now, can't, have to have at least two tiers in both armor and weapons. to many points, and really no dabbling in the same sence.
You don't have to agree with me, but do try to understand where i am coming from before saying that dabbling needs factories. Because it wouldn't be fully worth it. yeah, a few sub parts i need a factory, but no need for the end products now would i? i would be making custom because i am making the stuff for specific perposes. now i just beat out a factory guy who makes cookie cutting items. grind sucks, but factories is just another grind also.
RedDestinyCC wrote:If all the major crafters I actually see in our server today, all the major armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, meds etc. banded together, dropped their professions and all became shipwrights, I would still be able to practice my Shipwright profession unmolested by their efforts. To make a claim that factories used by others materially affect my ability to flourish is sillyiness.Factories, like harvesters, are a matter of convenience, enabling us to keep vendors stocked in x-% of the effort and repeated, redundant processes that we would otherwise have to do, so i can do it once every two weeks instead of every 3 days, for example, impacting my gametime, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the game, my time spent... not anyone elses.
Is that so? Could you still sell all your stuff, if every other crafter was an SW? And, even more important, could everybody of those crafters still sell all their stuff? This would mean, we have in infinite demand.
I seriously doubt this. As a customer, I would not start buying more ship chassis, just because there are more SWs with a larger production.
Maybe, you would not feel the impact, because you are selling to friends. Could be. But imagine there was not one but 10 SWs in every guild. Do you think those 10 shipwrights could sell their guild members 10 times as many components?
The ammount of stuff I am buying is not very much influenced by the number of things I can buy. If I was shopping for a chassis, I would not start buying 2 of the same, simply because there are two chassis in the vendor instead of just one. I just have no need for the second chassis. Which means, if the production increases by 1000%, much of this additional production would stay in the vendors...
At least for me, the goal is not to have full vendors, but to sell stuff...
Regards
Niacia
RedDestinyCC wrote:
If all the major crafters I actually see in our server today, all the major armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, medsetc.banded together, dropped their professions and all became shipwrights, I would still be able to practice my Shipwright profession unmolested by their efforts. To make a claim that factories used by others materially affect my ability to flourish is sillyiness.
Factories, like harvesters, are a matter of convenience, enabling us to keep vendors stocked in x-% of the effort and repeated, redundant processes that we would otherwise have to do, so i can do it once every two weeks instead of every 3 days, for example, impacting my gametime, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the game, my time spent... not anyone elses.
pervel wrote:
RedDestinyCC wrote:If all the major crafters I actually see in our server today, all the major armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, meds etc. banded together, dropped their professions and all became shipwrights, I would still be able to practice my Shipwright profession unmolested by their efforts. To make a claim that factories used by others materially affect my ability to flourish is sillyiness.Factories, like harvesters, are a matter of convenience, enabling us to keep vendors stocked in x-% of the effort and repeated, redundant processes that we would otherwise have to do, so i can do it once every two weeks instead of every 3 days, for example, impacting my gametime, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the game, my time spent... not anyone elses.
I agree with you. I would also be able to sell my products even if there were more shipwrights. Why? Because crafting is about quality - NOT quantity. Being a successful crafter is about being smart. It is first and foremost about resources and resource qualities. It is about knowing what resources to look for and stock. It is about knowing exactly how experimental properties are calculated based on resource quality. It is about managing X number of harvesters and factories so that you always have optimal resources and optimal quality in stock.I am sorry but I do feel that some of the factory-haters are simply mediocre crafters that are hoping that by limiting the availability of items on vendors they can hide the fact that they have inferior products. The net result is forcing all crafters into the mind-numbing process of hand-crafting (which very much resembles a pure grind) and causing frustration to the vast majority of pilots who just want an easy and fast purchase so that they can get into space.
Crafting is about both, quality and quantity. If quantity was not at least an aspect of this, you would not need to ask for factories. After all, factories are about increasing quantity while reducing effort at the same time.
Furthermore, you may be a better crafter then me, that I cannot know, as we are not even on the same server. Still, I would be surprised if of the full magnitude of crafters there were not at least a few, just as good as you are. If those people put there shops right next to yours, would you not think, your sales would suffer?
Even worse, if you were new to the game and did not have stock of the uber resource that spawned 2 months before you even bought that game? Did you not think, that you would suffer? And remember, many of the best spots for shops are already taken.
Yes, I believe, you might not be hurt by increased production capabilities. Still, this game is not a single player game. It is not only for you to have a flourishing business. The devs also have to consider the other players. They also pay for this game and they have just as much "right" to have fun then you have.
It might be possible, to tweak this game in a way, that is perfect for you. Only, should this be the goal of tweaking? If the game was perfect for you, and boring for everybody else? You will understand, that this cannot be the goal of game design...
Regards
Niacia
pervel wrote:
Factories are first and foremost a way to automate a task that is otherwise a mind-numbing and error-prone manual task.
If this is all you want, how about this compromise:
Add fall factory support but change factories in the following way. Instead of providing x copies of the same result, the factory repeats the experimentation the SW did. With the same chances of amazing sucess or critical fail for each experimentation point spend. In this scenario, the factory would only have a quantity advantage over a handcrafter, not a quality advantage, as the quality would be about the same.
It is was done that way, I suppose, I could live with factories.
Regards
Niacia
Niacia wrote:
pervel wrote:
Factories are first and foremost a way to automate a task that is otherwise a mind-numbing and error-prone manual task.
If this is all you want, how about this compromise:
Add fall factory support but change factories in the following way. Instead of providing x copies of the same result, the factory repeats the experimentation the SW did. With the same chances of amazing sucess or critical fail for each experimentation point spend. In this scenario, the factory would only have a quantity advantage over a handcrafter, not a quality advantage, as the quality would be about the same.
It is was done that way, I suppose, I could live with factories.
Regards
Niacia
No, I specifically mentioned that hand-crafting is "error-prone". Factories are there partly to limit the randomness in crafting. That is why I actually made a suggestion in the focus thread that if they completely removed randomness in crafting, I could probably live without factories.
pervel wrote:
Niacia wrote:
pervel wrote:
Factories are first and foremost a way to automate a task that is otherwise a mind-numbing and error-prone manual task.
If this is all you want, how about this compromise:
Add fall factory support but change factories in the following way. Instead of providing x copies of the same result, the factory repeats the experimentation the SW did. With the same chances of amazing sucess or critical fail for each experimentation point spend. In this scenario, the factory would only have a quantity advantage over a handcrafter, not a quality advantage, as the quality would be about the same.
It is was done that way, I suppose, I could live with factories.
Regards
Niacia
No, I specifically mentioned that hand-crafting is "error-prone". Factories are there partly to limit the randomness in crafting. That is why I actually made a suggestion in the focus thread that if they completely removed randomness in crafting, I could probably live without factories.
Only for me, the randomness is part of the fun. Remove it, and crafting really becomes dull. How about this:
For factory crafting, remove the randomness of crafting. Grant sucesses. For handcrafting give the full range of succes from crit fail to amazing succes.
In this way, factory crafting and hand crafting give similar results on the average, only hand crafting gives a chance of exeptional items and absymal fails.
This would probably also work for me.
Regards
Niacia
Niacia wrote:
Only for me, the randomness is part of the fun. Remove it, and crafting really becomes dull. How about this:
For factory crafting, remove the randomness of crafting. Grant sucesses. For handcrafting give the full range of succes from crit fail to amazing succes.
In this way, factory crafting and hand crafting give similar results on the average, only hand crafting gives a chance of exeptional items and absymal fails.
This would probably also work for me.
Regards
Niacia