Shipwright Archive
Thread: Please post in the threads reached by the stickies at the top =)
IIscandar wrote:
silversaber wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
So you ARE going to dump the player based economy model.
You had managed to keep the rewards to quests in balanced with the player economy, but now you have given up on this eh TH?
Goes to show on how deep in trouble this game is.
I don't know, looks like Th said that it isn't going to be all crafted or all looted, but a balance between the two just like you mentioned "balanced with the player economy"
ok I'm unpluggin from the computer for a few hours, hehe long day!
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Just an FYI for Shipwrights. Crafted Engines and Capacitors should be getting stat increases across the board in the next live update. This should make it so that crafted versions of these ship components can be crafted at a higher quality than looted components.
This almost makes me want to subscribe again with my WS/Shipwright. I was very close to dropping SW a few months ago for this very reason. Crafted items should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be superior to looted items, except for a RARE occurrence on a loot (extremely rare). In other games, it's different mainly because crafting does not use up your COMBAT skill points. In this game, you have to sacrifice all the content of the game in order to craft. So we should definitely be rewarded.
I heard something about a very nice Carbine dropping in the new ROTW quests. I haven't checked into this myself to see what the stats are compared to crafted carbines, but I certainly hope it is not a superior item. Otherwise we'll be in the same boat we're in here.
Anyway... good news, TH. Thanks for the info!
There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
Thanks for the response, TH. I just want to clarify to make sure my point wasn't missed... I'm not saying that looted items shouldn't drop. I'm just saying that in a game where the crafting system is an option that you take in LIEU of a combat template, the reward should be that crafted items are ALWAYS superior to looted items.
Let's say you put one single carbine in the game as a loot drop. And let's say that particular cabine has better stats than the best standard crafted weapon. Who in their right mind wouldn't simply work at getting that quest complete, and get the looted carbine? Forget about the Weaponsmiths who have dedicated 50% of their template to CRAFTING? You talk about balance, right? This whole CU was supposed to be about balance? But points like this are not only overlooked... it seems that they are being stomped on until they hurt.
Again, I have NO problem with loot. I think loot is good. But for heaven's sake, don't make the best weapons (and/or other items) in the game a droppable item! If nothing else, just make it a schematic like you did in the old days. At least this still gives the crafters something worthwhile to do and accomplish.
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Just an FYI for Shipwrights. Crafted Engines and Capacitors should be getting stat increases across the board in the next live update. This should make it so that crafted versions of these ship components can be crafted at a higher quality than looted components.
This almost makes me want to subscribe again with my WS/Shipwright. I was very close to dropping SW a few months ago for this very reason. Crafted items should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be superior to looted items, except for a RARE occurrence on a loot (extremely rare). In other games, it's different mainly because crafting does not use up your COMBAT skill points. In this game, you have to sacrifice all the content of the game in order to craft. So we should definitely be rewarded.
I heard something about a very nice Carbine dropping in the new ROTW quests. I haven't checked into this myself to see what the stats are compared to crafted carbines, but I certainly hope it is not a superior item. Otherwise we'll be in the same boat we're in here.
Anyway... good news, TH. Thanks for the info!
There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
Remain that way as in won't be balanced with the old ships? 
Kitten
Montya_Quatun wrote:
Ashet wrote:
My main issue is that they will not let us build the new spaceships. The new ships are being given out as deeds at the end of quests.With Beserker rifles or AV-21s, they gave out integral parts but still needed crafters. The way the game is headed crafters will not be needed. You run through the quest that Darth Platypus laid ouit and you have everything you need to do space mining.
From an SW point of view, the cool part of the expanion are the ships. But we are cut out of that. There is no content on the expansion for a shipwright. What content there was, the schamtics, were in my datapad before the expansion.
The screwed the Entertainers. Squad Leaders. Doctors. Image Designers. Armorsmiths. Now Shipwrights. It is clear that everything being developed is soly for the combat classes, and to me there is no reason to continue in a non combat role.
So I cancelled my Shipwright
Heh what your upset we can actually get something through a quest instead of having to pay out in blood millions of credits for something only a crafter can make.. The AV-21, Mandalorian Armor, KSE Firespray all that stuff, crafters murder you on the price. Its nice to get things free every once in a while lay off a little bit eh? Thier 1 time quests its not going to destroy the economy besides I dont know about the ARC 170 but the Jedi Starfighter only has 90k mass, thats not alot for me, itsnice for a light attack fighter but not my main fighter.
And lets just have a look at how bad crafters hurt...
KSE firespray, the -lowest- price i saw the other day was 6.5 million (highest was around 10 mil)
AV-21 i think is what in the neighborhood of 2 million?
Mandalorian armor? I dont even want to know....
These ships are not the biggest and the baddest in the game, thier just fun, trophy ships really. If you balance them right they can be good but that requires a good shipwright and sinking several million in RE'd componants into said ships.. So think more about what your complaining about.
I was a shipwright in the JTL beta, and im grinding up a SW on live now slowly but surely along with my other chars. Its a very viable profession and very needed. Hell im practicly looking for one everyday
If you dont want to pay millions for a firespray.
Hook up with some SW's
Provide them lots of RE so they get the disks.
Because of that I got my FS by just providing the resource lol
If you help the SW get the disks most are very willing to hook up who helped them. They will have 4 others on the schematic to sell
There are ways of getting crafters to hook you up.
silversaber wrote:
IIscandar wrote:
silversaber wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
So you ARE going to dump the player based economy model.
You had managed to keep the rewards to quests in balanced with the player economy, but now you have given up on this eh TH?
Goes to show on how deep in trouble this game is.
I don't know, looks like Th said that it isn't going to be all crafted or all looted, but a balance between the two just like you mentioned "balanced with the player economy"ok I'm unpluggin from the computer for a few hours, hehe long day!
Im sorry, but I dont equate giving out chassis that are FAR superiour to what we can make "balanced".
These chassis are not "forever" either. Just like our ships they will get blown up and slowly reach 1/1 condition. They can't be replaced though. Your ships can.
You are still making parts, as I have said before, and those parts all cost money. You are also the only profession that can RE anything. You can make money off of that as well.
I have my Y-8 but I'll be damned if I fly around in that all the time. I still use and need Shipwright ships and parts. Those parts cost more than a ship does and use far less resources. You guys make a killing off of these things and if you aren't then it's probably because you are overcharging and people are going elsewhere.
I used to have a shipwright. I made a ton of cash wth her. I had to get rid of the account though, otherwise I still would have one - making a killing as usual. Heck, I was giving away parts to friends, mining up resources and STILL making a killing off of parts I sold. I don't see a problem with a 1-time reward being in the game like this. The game is still economy based, those ships still need parts in them and you still make those parts.
Plus, with the expansion came 3 more slots BECAUSE of these ships. Do you really think people would be buying any more parts if they weren't there? Nope. Not many. You are making more cash now and using less resources than if you were just selling the ships.
Unless you planned on overcharging for those ships... and you weren't going to do that... WERE YOU???
Buka_Starwalker wrote:
One HUGE HUGE issue is the inability of a Master Shipwright to use that stack of 300k of SW xps we are maxxed out withto dump off in the village to gain a bonus for experimentation, assembly or crit fail negation. EVERY SINGLE OTHER crafting class can use their excess xps to dump off in the village EXCEPT shipwright. This is not fair. I would love to have force sensitive crafting experimentation and crit bonus additions the way other crafters do. BUT I CANT!!! =(
Even architects have a crazy 30 to 1 or 60 to 1 ratio (I forget which atm) to convert over in the village. We as shipwrights demand some sort of justice!!! lol
Give us something, anything 100 to 1, 5,000,000 to 1, something!!! so we don't sit on stacked xps that do nothing when it comes to village crafting bonuses. This is completely crazy and very biased versus shipwrights.
I have had to pick up weaponsmithing and grind out heavy warhead mechanisms over and over and over just to be able to generate force xps to get the first box in force experimentation. The only choice a master shipwright has to use crafting xps in the villageis generic craft xps. Do you know thats over 5,000,000 wind power generators grinded to get the complete force experimenation tree??? There is NO WAY im grinding 5,000,000 wind power generators, IM A SHIPWRIGHT!!! My thumb cant stand that much clickin =(
It would be nice to craft regularly all my parts and components and take the excess to the village and convert them to force xps and one day I will get another force box that boosts my experimentation. As it stands,we have to pick up (and waste precious skill points) a different crafting profession to just be able to convert to force xps. This is an insult to shipwrights =(
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Just an FYI for Shipwrights. Crafted Engines and Capacitors should be getting stat increases across the board in the next live update. This should make it so that crafted versions of these ship components can be crafted at a higher quality than looted components.
This almost makes me want to subscribe again with my WS/Shipwright. I was very close to dropping SW a few months ago for this very reason. Crafted items should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be superior to looted items, except for a RARE occurrence on a loot (extremely rare). In other games, it's different mainly because crafting does not use up your COMBAT skill points. In this game, you have to sacrifice all the content of the game in order to craft. So we should definitely be rewarded.
I heard something about a very nice Carbine dropping in the new ROTW quests. I haven't checked into this myself to see what the stats are compared to crafted carbines, but I certainly hope it is not a superior item. Otherwise we'll be in the same boat we're in here.
Anyway... good news, TH. Thanks for the info!
There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
Thanks for the response, TH. I just want to clarify to make sure my point wasn't missed... I'm not saying that looted items shouldn't drop. I'm just saying that in a game where the crafting system is an option that you take in LIEU of a combat template, the reward should be that crafted items are ALWAYS superior to looted items.
Let's say you put one single carbine in the game as a loot drop. And let's say that particular cabine has better stats than the best standard crafted weapon. Who in their right mind wouldn't simply work at getting that quest complete, and get the looted carbine? Forget about the Weaponsmiths who have dedicated 50% of their template to CRAFTING? You talk about balance, right? This whole CU was supposed to be about balance? But points like this are not only overlooked... it seems that they are being stomped on until they hurt.
Again, I have NO problem with loot. I think loot is good. But for heaven's sake, don't make the best weapons (and/or other items) in the game a droppable item! If nothing else, just make it a schematic like you did in the old days. At least this still gives the crafters something worthwhile to do and accomplish.
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thanks for the response, TH. I just want to clarify to make sure my point wasn't missed... I'm not saying that looted items shouldn't drop. I'm just saying that in a game where the crafting system is an option that you take in LIEU of a combat template, the reward should be that crafted items are ALWAYS superior to looted items.
Let's say you put one single carbine in the game as a loot drop. And let's say that particular cabine has better stats than the best standard crafted weapon. Who in their right mind wouldn't simply work at getting that quest complete, and get the looted carbine? Forget about the Weaponsmiths who have dedicated 50% of their template to CRAFTING? You talk about balance, right? This whole CU was supposed to be about balance? But points like this are not only overlooked... it seems that they are being stomped on until they hurt.
Again, I have NO problem with loot. I think loot is good. But for heaven's sake, don't make the best weapons (and/or other items) in the game a droppable item! If nothing else, just make it a schematic like you did in the old days. At least this still gives the crafters something worthwhile to do and accomplish.
The crafting system is certainly, "not an option". Crafters craft the vast majority of player used equipment in the game. Crafted items will always have a high value and so will some loot. Some crafted items will be better and some loot items will be better. Its never going to be an "either/or" situation. Sometimes great items will be craftable, sometimes they will be schematics and sometime they will be quest rewards.
I think the important thing to underscore is that the great RoW items are quest-loot, not loot drops. It important to have quest rewards that are satisfying and RoW is a very quest oriented expansion.
Palath's point is the best one. its fine to have loot drops but i would FAR prefer a schematic which i could take to a friendly weapon/ship/armour/clothing crafter to have the piece made for me. it would add a very cool dimension to the process of loot.
just getting the item as a reward... bleh i dont really care for that. its so one dimensional and detracts from the rest of the game. basically someone can just tag along on these quests and be fully outfitted with near uber gear and never really have done anything on the noncombat part of the game.
i liek the CU and the rotw has some good points but its far too dependent on super easy mini quests that give near uber loot.
Cutedge wrote:
Buka_Starwalker wrote:
Ok, as it stands crafters can't participate inmost (if any)of these new (or old)quests because our combat ability is so poor. My CL is at 7 and can't get any higher due to SW and merchent skills I MUST have to run my business. Since crafters can't participate directly in these quests we CAN participate on the back end. You bring us that shiny new schematic you just looted and Voila! instant MMORG. You MUST involve crafters more in these quests and you do it by handing in your schems to us so we can then take over and get you a KICK-ASS new widget you have been salivating over since you started this quest.
The problem is that even if you required NO resources for the item being crafted, you'd see (at least some) crafters charging horrendous amounts to essentially click the button once or twice.
If you want to skip the whole DWB mess and see a Jetpack in the window of your local vendor then thats your choice. Time = money. Your too busy or lazy to farm it and some crafter get his hands on a rare schem the price you are paying should be in correlation to skipping all the content to get to the goods directly.
The fault here would lie in the original procurer of this widget foolishly dumping it in the open market underselling themselves not the smart crafter that sees a good chance to make credits with minimal investment.
I buy factory crate items off the general city vendors and resell the individual parts all the time cause I know a good deal when I see one. I don't like to buy individual items and resell em cause I know this will hurt the original crafter. But crated items are fair game. They are begging for resale =)
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is that a crafter/merchent sells items ON BEHLF of the orignal procurer of the item too. The proceeds get split between the original person who gets the items and the merchent say 20/80 split for example. The majority of the money may actually be going to the actual person who farmed it. The merchent does the advertising and luring ppl to the tent and get a small cut even tho they incurred very little sacrifice doing the quest to get the item.
Message Edited by Buka_Starwalker on 05-10-2005 01:23 PM
Message Edited by Buka_Starwalker on 05-10-2005 01:31 PM
Before the CU, doing quests like the DWB was fine for crafters because anyone could get buffs and wear armor, nothing has changed since now you can get lvl 80 by just being in a group.
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Palath wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:Just an FYI for Shipwrights. Crafted Engines and Capacitors should be getting stat increases across the board in the next live update. This should make it so that crafted versions of these ship components can be crafted at a higher quality than looted components.
This almost makes me want to subscribe again with my WS/Shipwright. I was very close to dropping SW a few months ago for this very reason. Crafted items should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be superior to looted items, except for a RARE occurrence on a loot (extremely rare). In other games, it's different mainly because crafting does not use up your COMBAT skill points. In this game, you have to sacrifice all the content of the game in order to craft. So we should definitely be rewarded.I heard something about a very nice Carbine dropping in the new ROTW quests. I haven't checked into this myself to see what the stats are compared to crafted carbines, but I certainly hope it is not a superior item. Otherwise we'll be in the same boat we're in here.
Anyway... good news, TH. Thanks for the info!
There is a pretty good Carbine you can get on the RoW quests (along with some other nice items as well). As far as the new ships earnedon the RoWquests? They will remain that way. Looking to the future, players will get more items to craft and there will also be more quest/loot items - - it isn't going to be all one or all the other.
Thanks for the response, TH. I just want to clarify to make sure my point wasn't missed... I'm not saying that looted items shouldn't drop. I'm just saying that in a game where the crafting system is an option that you take in LIEU of a combat template, the reward should be that crafted items are ALWAYS superior to looted items.
Let's say you put one single carbine in the game as a loot drop. And let's say that particular cabine has better stats than the best standard crafted weapon. Who in their right mind wouldn't simply work at getting that quest complete, and get the looted carbine? Forget about the Weaponsmiths who have dedicated 50% of their template to CRAFTING? You talk about balance, right? This whole CU was supposed to be about balance? But points like this are not only overlooked... it seems that they are being stomped on until they hurt.
Again, I have NO problem with loot. I think loot is good. But for heaven's sake, don't make the best weapons (and/or other items) in the game a droppable item! If nothing else, just make it a schematic like you did in the old days. At least this still gives the crafters something worthwhile to do and accomplish.
The crafting system is certainly, "not an option". Crafters craft the vast majority of player used equipment in the game. Crafted items will always have a high value and so will some loot. Some crafted items will be better and some loot items will be better. Its never going to be an "either/or" situation. Sometimes great items will be craftable, sometimes they will be schematics and sometime they will be quest rewards.I think the important thing to underscore is that the great RoW items are quest-loot, not loot drops. It important to have quest rewards that are satisfying and RoW is a very quest oriented expansion.
Unfortunately, this is not accurate in the case of Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths. I have yet to see a single crafted weapon be more powerful than the quest weapons on Kashyyyk, nor have I seen battle armor reach the protection of Clone Armor.
As well, the single Weaponsmith schematic in RotW, the crystal knife in Myyydril Caves, is a 5.2 dps weapon certed for level 40 players. This may be due to the fact that the schematic requires no resources, just loot, but regardless...it is inaccurate to say that some crafted weapons are better than quest ones, at least as far as I have been made aware. If I am wrong, please let me know, as several WS friends have been discouraged strongly by the lack of anything worthwhile for them to do in RotW.
Imperio59 wrote:
But under the new System, crafters CAN take on these quests!!!! All you need is a combat novice and a lvl 80 combat friend who will group with you to raise your level!
Before the CU, doing quests like the DWB was fine for crafters because anyone could get buffs and wear armor, nothing has changed since now you can get lvl 80 by just being in a group.
LOL, thats just silly. What exactly willa crafterbe adding to this combat group? My 12 misses in a row plus a damage of a whole whopping 8-11 points LOL
If your CL 7-14ish crafter is there, your gonna not gonna do a whole lot of good. Taking up a precious spot in a combat group that can add yet another level 80 combatant into their mix to complete the quest faster with more firepower as their asset. Crafters should sit on the sidelines until the quest reward is brought before us and ready to be made, THATS when we are allowed to shine!