Scout Archive
Thread: Camps will no longer be required to pull vehicles/mounts/droids as of Mid-Mar Patch (7)
Then why would giving people the ability to call vehicles without a campresult inthescout/ranger "professions loosing their viability"?
OberSenf wrote:
Nope, not stating that at all.
Bad_Bad_Leroy wrote:
Are you suggesting that the only thing that made scouts and rangers viable is that you need one around tocall your vehicle in the wild???
Hakai wrote:
*stares in silence*
oh crap...there goes my cash cow.
How much were you making?
How much could you make selling things to people who can make them on their own?
You should be able to make way more cash going out with a group and being able to provide them with a haven while they are on a hunt.
Bad_Bad_Leroy wrote:
Then why would giving people the ability to call vehicles without a campresult inthescout/ranger "professions loosing their viability"?
Allowing pets and vehicles to be called from anywhere, in-and-of itself, is not the bane of our profession. It is simply another 'nail in the coffin' of our Survival/Frontiering lines. As it stands now what are the uses of camps? Calling pets, healing and rally points. Well, calling pets is going away. Healing will be better accomplished by sitting and getting your droid out. Rally points are arguable in that camps don't repel aggro well and disband during combat. I'm sure people will still use camps to write and respond to e-mail out in the wilds, craft and do other things. They will probably still use them to heal and as a rally point eventhough, strictly speaking game mechanics, these facets are broke or have other ways of accomplishing the same thing in less amount of time. I know I will still use them, but just because I'm a stubborn Ranger and not because they're neccesary.
Camps are loosing their effectiveness and practicality as a game mechanic, IMO. They are becoming less successful as a professional feature of the Scout/Ranger trees. This, along with the other points I've stated, meansbeing a Scoutand being a Ranger, in general, is loosingits' effectiveness in-game. Exploration was good for the group (ie: scouting ahead). With vehicles now it's only good for the individual. Camo was good for the group. It will soon not even be good for the individual. Camps were good for the group and individual. Arguably, obviously, they will soon serve little purpose for either.
I have not stated we have lost our usefulness. I have stated we are loosing some of it.
Thunderheart wrote:
I like the idea that if I want certain perks ie. pulling a pet / droid / speeder I have to find someone with scouting abilities.
This is a severe minority. The skill that most players in the game have as scouting to get camps and to get slope modifiers. What you see in the game world is everyone spending 15 points on the novice skill and a handful of points on basic camps and slope modifiers, so NO ONE needs a scout (when I say scout, I mean the people who actually want to play scouts and not just have a convenient skill).
Aye, that it is.
Thunderheart wrote:
The next step is gather the information from Delta and NRaas on how to make camps better and move on that - - thats the move thats going top count for more in the long run.
This move makes scoutsmore valuable and more unique, not less.
Absolutely. Make the ability to toss up a camp a positive asset, not a "I have to have this to call my swoop if the server crashes and I'm in the middle of nowhere on Dathomir" fallback position.
Make the aggro repel real. I've seen crazed durnis attack advanced ranger base camps. It's not working, not as advertised.
Make the camps more persistent. Make them real remote bases of operation, not just somthing that disappears if you get aggroed by a howling rasp.
Give the camps some of the benefits they're already supposed to have, like BF healing w/an entertainer, at a lower rate than a cantina, and no autoBFheal..
Give them some new benefits, like a reduced chance of a crit fail when crafting. This will be of tremendous benefit and will make camps very desirable.
Make progressively larger, more expensive, higher skill required camps actually have benefits. Right now basic camps rule...the more advanced camps don't confer benefit in relation to their higher resource cost and skill requirements.
Make the aggro repel real.
This is a smaller item Im working on getting in soon 
The next step is gather the information from Delta and NRaas on how to make camps better and move on that - - thats the move thats going top count for more in the long run.
ie shut up we arent listening to you whine anymore about us screwing your professions. I wonder if SOE gave this same speach when they laid off all their help. I am still waiting for my new ranger traps, hell i would settle for ranger traps that work. I am still waiting for the **edit** fps freeze and client crashes to be fixed. I am still waiting for the harvestor bugs to be fixed. I am sure glad YOU DEVS took time out of your busy schedule to wreck one more thing instead of fixing the hundred of things that really needed work.
I guess this is ok when they will all jump ship when EQ2 comes out anyway, as a paraphrase TH... see you in EQ2. Guess maybe SWG is just a beta for EQ2 since they are showing more and more they only really listen to the pvp whiners.
sorry delta
More valuable and unique? I'm sorry TH but you are wrong on the former. Tell me how we are in any way more valuable? In order for us to be more valuable, you would have needed to make scouts *more* useful in the wild, not less. I agree that having everyone be a scout isn't good either but we have to have some benefit to our point expendature. Right now it is just the hunting line and the ability to see CL at master which is useful for me. Camps, mask scent, and terrain negotiation are pointless to me by virtue of vehicles and the removal of the camp requirement to call pets/vehicles.
As a previous poster said, healing way out in the boonies in a camp is *very* rare. So rare that I haven't seen it since we were all running around shooting bunnies with CDEFs at launch (ahh those were the days). Now with everyone cash flush (or at least not cash poor), good stims, and food buffs make healing at a tent in the wild very rare. Plus with vehicles and player cities, it is really hard to actually get in the boonies on most planets.
Don't break a profession trying to fix other's complaints. Fix the profession first, then address their needs as appropriate to the balance of the game.
Grom
Honestly, I can't believe that people are making such a big deal out of this. On EITHER side of the argument.
It would have been nice if the technical flaws creating the need for this situation would have been fixed instead, but I'm not a Dev so I don't know what other issues are slowing down that process.
BUT.
I DO see this as "slippery slope" time. I'd really like the ability to heal myself while still in combat without it taking 20 to 30 seconds to happen. I HAVE Medic 1000. My Medic friends can spot heal me with no problems. But I can't do it for myself or others. If I can't do it, why should I have Medic at all?
Should I start whinging about how unfair/inconvienient that is?
Maybe I should complain about how, as a Artisan, it's unfair that Scouts can craft camps to begin with?
Maybe I should whinge about how the TEF'd Rebels I encounter in the field will be able to simply whip out thier speeder bike and run away? And vice-versa?
Healing in the boones isn't a camp benefit anymore now that people can simply pull out thier bike and head to town. Heck, with the advent of player cities, THERE ARE NO BOONIES ANYMORE.
As it is currently, A player has to either walk back to town, or find a camp to get their vehicle out. Most of the time (in my experience) having found a camp, they didn't bother going back to town because the camp saved them time!
Bah. Whatever. I'm here to have fun. When I stop having fun I'll go do something else.
As I've been saying elsewhere, the best option I reckon is to remove scout requirements from basic camp kits, but leave them only craftable by scouts - or have a survival box that allows you to craft an idiot-proof camp kit, this way you lose all the weefle-scouts (0000) and start making money off people who'd rather spend the 15 skillpoints elsewhere.
Anyone thencan drop basic camps and do their thang, but only scouts can make the things, so they're still invaluable in the grand scale of things.
Thunderheart wrote:
I like the idea that if I want certain perks ie. pulling a pet / droid / speeder I have to find someone with scouting abilities.
This is a severe minority. The skill that most players in the game have as scouting to get camps and to get slope modifiers. What you see in the game world is everyone spending 15 points on the novice skill and a handful of points on basic camps and slope modifiers, so NO ONE needs a scout (when I say scout, I mean the people who actually want to play scouts and not just have a convenient skill).
By removing the ability, people wont just take the basic skill to take out vehicles and pets and they will opt to keep their 15+ skill points. That makes scouts people who are valuable in the wilderness because you can be healed way out in the boonies without having to come back to a city.
The next step is gather the information from Delta and NRaas on how to make camps better and move on that - - thats the move thats going top count for more in the long run.
This move makes scoutsmore valuable and more unique, not less.
2 things I see glaringly wrong... pet droids have better medical mod then most camps made by scouts... they can pull pet droids out anywhere after the patch... double edged nerf there...
Slope mod.s were made almost useless by vehicle intro... add the fact that they can pull vehicles out anywhere there goes any need for scouts...
So basically with one key stroke the devs have effectively made scouts almost pointless... while your at it why not remove organic harvesting and rename the scout class to "mandatory skill dump for CH's, Rangers and BH's"...
Point is: whats the point of scout now? Answer that and I will give you a medical droid and vehicle...
Guys,
C'mon - be fair to TH here. We haven't had this much attention in while, so please - let's act like Scouts and keep the immature behavior over on the CH forums.
N'Raas has developed a big ole' plan for camps with the Rangers and I've signed on our support - go check it out over there.
I'm willing to accept the camp changes, and I have asked for a bit more developer attention in return. If losing camps means they're willing to give us some changes that we've been requesting, I think it could be worth it.
Remember - SOE and the guys are trying to make the game better for EVERYONE. Sometimes that means doing something to a small group of folks to make a larger group happier. That's what happened to us here.
But hopefully, it'll also give us the opportunity to make Scouting even better.
So let's work together and move forward, and leave this bit of unpleasantness in the past.
B
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Guys,
C'mon - be fair to TH here. We haven't had this much attention in while, so please - let's act like Scouts and keep the immature behavior over on the CH forums.
N'Raas has developed a big ole' plan for camps with the Rangers and I've signed on our support - go check it out over there.
I'm willing to accept the camp changes, and I have asked for a bit more developer attention in return. If losing camps means they're willing to give us some changes that we've been requesting, I think it could be worth it.
Remember - SOE and the guys are trying to make the game better for EVERYONE. Sometimes that means doing something to a small group of folks to make a larger group happier. That's what happened to us here.
But hopefully, it'll also give us the opportunity to make Scouting even better.
So let's work together and move forward, and leave this bit of unpleasantness in the past.
B
I agree with you Delta. I don't mind this change at all as long as the devs are going to revamp the camp system to make it more useful. It needed a revamp even without this change in my opinion. Now maybe it will actually get done.