Rifleman Archive

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smugglerkatan wrote:

well i cant fight TK while kneeling or prone...how about the other melee classes? adv strafe is still a extremely powerful shot that could still be fired while on the move.

Message Edited by smugglerkatan on 07-29-2004 05:57 PM

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Waste93 wrote:

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Sleksheea wrote:

You totally ignored the whole point of my post. You can't accept it can you. But I'm glad to see thatYOU AGREE WITH ME in the fact that riflemen are overpowered.

No they aren't. The problem is mostly with buffs. (Dude, LISTEN... it doesn't matter where the problem lays. Regardless of WHY riflemen are overpowered, they are overpowered!)

(You said "Riflemans advantage doesn't come from the rifleman profession itself, it comes from the HAM system, the pool it targets") So wait a minute!! Riflemen DO have an advantage!

All professions are suppose to have an advantage. (And riflemen have the advantage over every class out there)The Riflemans is damage. The carbineers is status effects. And the Pistoleers is suppose to be <--- 'suppose to be' but isn't--->defense.Riflemen have more than 10x the defence vs a pistoleer.

OMG does that mean OVERPOWERED!?! Hell ya.

No. The simple reason isn't even the HAM system. It's buffs. Buffs operate on two different systems. Health and Action get buffed X amount. It's an addition and the average is about 2300 I'd say. Mind buffs on the other hand operate on a percent system. They double the Mind pool and substats. Which often leaves the Mind about 500-1000 points lower. Anyone with common sense is going to attack the weaker pool. Especially once you factor in the lowered PvP damage. (Anyone with common sense? LMAO! I'm a master pistoleer/doctor, am I going to attack the weaker mind pool? HOW? Seems only swordsmen, riflemen, and CM's can do that (and TKA but not signifigantly).

However that doesn't mean that Rifleman are overpowered. What it means is that there is a problem with buffs. They shouldn't be operating on two different systems. If you lowered Doc buffs to be like Mind buffs then that pool would be about even. Which makes those pools more attractive to target. Or if you increase Mind buffs to the same level as Doc buffs you get the same effect. What that means is riflemen are overpowered in the current system. Nice try on trying to dodge the issue though. (oh wait, dodge is broken)

Then the only issue is adding Mind stims so that the Mind can be healed like the others or remove stims from Health and Action and you have your equality. Just another factor that makes riflemen overpowered.

The issue isn't Rifleman. It's a poorly implemented system that made the Mind the weakest and most attractive target in PvP. You can fix that with other doing anything to Rifleman as has been shown above. That's like saying your range of 89 meters from a combat medic throwing 90 meter poisons is to blame for the combat medic having a huge advantage over everyone else, and not his actuall poison range modifier. Ya, it's the system, combat medic was fine the way it was! (But they got the nerf bat!)You shouldn't have been standing in range of his 89 meter poison! ...pfttt

Like I said in my last post... the one you obviously didn't read, regardless of the source of the advantage, riflemen have one, thus they are overpowered.

Having an advantage is not overpowered. It is when the advantages are above practically every other class. You are suppose to attack an opponents weakness, not their strengths. What class doesn't have this weakness? If you try to attack their strength then don't expect to win. You can't even 'try' to attack this pool unless your a combat medic. All professions are suppose to have weaknesses and strengths. Rifleman have low defenses with the expception to ranged defense. LOL!!! Rifleman's melee defence is +40. Pistoleer's melee defence is +45 and they are supposed to be the big defence ranged attacking melee defence class! HAHAHA! BIG ADVANTAGE! LMAOThey are vulnerable to status attacks. (So are pistoleers, it just takes 1.4 times the effort to make them stick... again, wow! Big Advantage! LMAO)

Oh, and please show me where I said I'm trying to break riflemen? LOL, making stuff up now are ya? Also glad to see you agree with me on all the other stuff I said in my last post, as you didn't say anything about that either.

Rifleman is a mostly working profession. Most of the others are not. You can't compare the two. If you try to make Rifleman on par with a broken profession the only way to do so is to break it. That is if you don't fix the broken professions. So you are admitting yet another reason why rifleman is overpowred,,, it's not freaking broken like the other classes. I agree with the opinion that SOE should fix the other classes to balance the game, but that doesn't change the fact that riflemen are currently overpowered.

For your information, the star rating system here is not supposed to be used to 'hurt' the poster like your doing. If you disagree with a post it doesn't mean it's a 1 star post. The stars are supposed to represent the level of decency they are written with, the effort of a logical attempt to post one's opinions and the lack of flaming within. If I disagree with your opinion but your post is clean and tidey, I give you at least 4 stars and then make a post about why I disagree with your opinion. You obviously can't handle a mature system like that.

I will however agree with you here. And you will be getting multiple stars just for making that point. OMG, I'm stunned... despite my +40 defense vs. stun...

Just a last point about mind damage/mind buffs... Even if all riflemen could use was advanced strafe, no mind attacks, they would STILL be the most damaging, fastest shooting, most accurate, highest ranged defence class in the game. Unless a master pistoleer is using an uber geo pistol, his opponent buffed and wearing 90% composite will regenerate his HAM faster than the pistoleer can damage it... now that's SAD.

I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea

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smugglerkatan wrote:

I grabbed some stats from one of the highend smiths off of my galaxy and used the SWG Damage Calculator with the player speed mods of Rifleman 90,Carbine70, Pistol 74. The main difference between the professions are DMG ranges of the weps.

Please note that at 5.2 speed all mind damage shots are fired at the speed cap of 1.0. 5.6 all at capbut HS3at 1.1 6.2 allows 1.2 on HS3.

http://killyourpc.org/swg/swg_dps.php

DLT20 Starter Rifle 130-211 (5.1)
Tusken Rifle 195-272 (6.3)
Laser Rifle 85-453 (5.9)
SG82 124-201 (5.2)
Spraystick 48-186 (1.9)
Jawa Ion Rifle (PVP) 128-232 (5.6)
DXR6-B 187-350 (5.9)
T21 Rifle 174-404 (7.5)
SPECIAL EDITION T21 178-420 (7.1)

DH17 Starter 82-196 (2.5)

Enhanced E11 Carbine 76-157 (2.7)

Laser Carbine 85-322 (3.8)

DXR6 156-224 (4.1)

EE3 130-242 (3.1)

Elite Carbine 151-231 (3.8)

D18 Starter Pistol 56-134 (1.6)

DL44 "Han Solo" Pistol 62-173 (2.0)

Scout Blaster 80-157 (1.7)

DH17 Pistol 101-154 (1.8)

Power5 Pistol 63-190 (2.6)

Striker 81-130 (2.0)

FWG5 63-175 (2.1)

Featherlight FWG5 62-168 (2.3)

Modified Republic Blaster 69-209 (2.5)

DX2 106-165 (2.4)

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I'm not the brightest crayon in the box at times, but it looks to me like Pistols < Carbines < Rifles in firing delay.

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TenshiHanaKinu wrote:

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smugglerkatan wrote:

I grabbed some stats from one of the highend smiths off of my galaxy and used the SWG Damage Calculator with the player speed mods of Rifleman 90,Carbine70, Pistol 74. The main difference between the professions are DMG ranges of the weps.

Please note that at 5.2 speed all mind damage shots are fired at the speed cap of 1.0. 5.6 all at capbut HS3at 1.1 6.2 allows 1.2 on HS3.

http://killyourpc.org/swg/swg_dps.php

DLT20 Starter Rifle 130-211 (5.1)
Tusken Rifle 195-272 (6.3)
Laser Rifle 85-453 (5.9)
SG82 124-201 (5.2)
Spraystick 48-186 (1.9)
Jawa Ion Rifle (PVP) 128-232 (5.6)
DXR6-B 187-350 (5.9)
T21 Rifle 174-404 (7.5)
SPECIAL EDITION T21 178-420 (7.1)

DH17 Starter 82-196 (2.5)

Enhanced E11 Carbine 76-157 (2.7)

Laser Carbine 85-322 (3.8)

DXR6 156-224 (4.1)

EE3 130-242 (3.1)

Elite Carbine 151-231 (3.8)

D18 Starter Pistol 56-134 (1.6)

DL44 "Han Solo" Pistol 62-173 (2.0)

Scout Blaster 80-157 (1.7)

DH17 Pistol 101-154 (1.8)

Power5 Pistol 63-190 (2.6)

Striker 81-130 (2.0)

FWG5 63-175 (2.1)

Featherlight FWG5 62-168 (2.3)

Modified Republic Blaster 69-209 (2.5)

DX2 106-165 (2.4)

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I'm not the brightest crayon in the box at times, but it looks to me like Pistols < Carbines < Rifles in firing delay.

An aside, aren't some of these people that're saying "don't break a working class" trying to get Doctor nerfed? Hmm.

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I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea

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Sleksheea wrote:

(Dude, LISTEN... it doesn't matter where the problem lays. Regardless of WHY riflemen are overpowered, they are overpowered!)

You have to know where the problem is before you can fix it.

(And riflemen have the advantage over every class out there)

This is wrong in so many ways I'm not sure even where to begin. Over every class? I would suggest you look at the other professions before making such a blanket statement.

<--- 'suppose to be' but isn't--->

That's because Pistoleer needs to be fixed.

Riflemen have more than 10x the defence vs a pistoleer.

Really? Other than ranged defense please show me where it shows Rifleman with +500 vs KD as you are stating. Where is the +400 vs Blind or Dizzy? Or did I miss the +450 vs Melee? Maybe you were talking about total defense points? Pistoleer has 347 and Rifleman has 257. Nope, no 10X there either.

Pistol:
+105 Dodge
+7 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+40 Dvs Stun
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+20 Dvs Posture Change

Rifle:
+80 Block
+72 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+10 Dvs Dizzy
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+10 Dvs Stun

(Anyone with common sense? LMAO! I'm a master pistoleer/doctor, am I going to attack the weaker mind pool? HOW? Seems only swordsmen, riflemen, and CM's can do that (and TKA but not signifigantly).

And BH and Commandos can too. That's six combat professions that can target it. How many combat professions are there? I believe it's eleven elite. So that means just over half can target that pool.

What that means is riflemen are overpowered in the current system. Nice try on trying to dodge the issue though. (oh wait, dodge is broken)

Not a dodge. You are saying not to fix the problem which is buffs. But move the problem to Rifleman. I would say that you are dodging the issue. The question then becomes why? Seeing as you are a Doctor as you state the reason is probably obvious.

Just another factor that makes riflemen overpowered.

Most Rifleman wouldn't have an issue with making the Mind healable. Is that not a fix that helps resolve the problem without nerfing Riflemen?

That's like saying your range of 89 meters from a combat medic throwing 90 meter poisons is to blame for the combat medic having a huge advantage over everyone else, and not his actuall poison range modifier. Ya, it's the system, combat medic was fine the way it was! (But they got the nerf bat!)You shouldn't have been standing in range of his 89 meter poison! ...pfttt

The CM range was a bug. Are you saying that a profession is responsible for a bug in their profession? It wasn't a nerf, it was a bug fix.

It is when the advantages are above practically every other class.

All professions have their advantage and their disadvantages. Riflemen are not above practically every other profession.

You can't even 'try' to attack this pool unless your a combat medic.

Or a Swordsman, BH, Commando, or TKA.

LOL!!! Rifleman's melee defence is +40. Pistoleer's melee defence is +45 and they are supposed to be the big defence ranged attacking melee defence class! HAHAHA! BIG ADVANTAGE! LMAO

Melee have a to hit bonus vs Riflemen. That means their effective melee defense is much lower. Besides it's +45 not +40. However most if not all of that is negated by the melee to hit bonus. Because of the melee to hit bonus it also means that a Rifleman can not hit the +125 cap. Sure it will show +125 however the to hit bonus negates part of that and is not accounted for in the cap limit.

(So are pistoleers, it just takes 1.4 times the effort to make them stick... again, wow! Big Advantage! LMAO)

And I've repeatedly stated that Pistoleer defenses need to be increased.

So you are admitting yet another reason why rifleman is overpowred,,, it's not freaking broken like the other classes. I agree with the opinion that SOE should fix the other classes to balance the game, but that doesn't change the fact that riflemen are currently overpowered.

Overpowered? Or are the broken professions underpowered by nature of them being broken? You can't balance a broken and a working profession. Not unless you break the working one or fix the broken one. If you do balance without fixing then all the professions end up broken and very unlikely to be fixed since that would upset the balance. Do you even want your profession fixed?

OMG, I'm stunned... despite my +40 defense vs. stun...

Just a last point about mind damage/mind buffs... Even if all riflemen could use was advanced strafe, no mind attacks, they would STILL be the most damaging, fastest shooting, most accurate, highest ranged defence class in the game. Unless a master pistoleer is using an uber geo pistol, his opponent buffed and wearing 90% composite will regenerate his HAM faster than the pistoleer can damage it... now that's SAD.

And there you find the problem. Buffs and armor. Wouldn't they be more effective if Health and Action buffs were a percentage instead of a flat increase? And armor was capped lower at say 60-70%?

You should also rethink the fastest shooting comment. I shoot StrafeShot2 about every three seconds with my T21. Granted it is damage sliced and not speed sliced. However to fire SS2 at the speed cap with just the +90 speed mod in Rifleman would require a rifle with a base speed of 2.86. Ever seen one?

You also have to remember that both Pistol and Carbine can be stacked with BH to increase accuracy and speed to hit the cap. Rifle does not stack with any profession.

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Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-02-2004 05:11 AM

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smugglerkatan wrote:

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but please consider making the shots listed below contingent on akneeling or prone posture. This would allow the rifleman to still be the two part profession of heavygunner & sniper. Currently in game the sniper acc is spilling over to the heavygunner speed. This allows a rifleman to remain moving with a highly accurate mind pool shot. I believe changing these shots to posture specific will alleviate this inbalance.

/mindshot1

/mindshot2

/headshot1

/headshot2

/headshot3

/snipershot

Thanks

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Waste93 wrote:

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Xytroncore wrote:

I never once said anything about the 600max T21doing the1500 damage, you can leave that to the other rifles that have FAR higher max damages like the Laser (I have a 1200 max Player crafted one sitting in my house, I've had it since December) and Disruptors. I said 1000 damage is reasonable for a T21, and 600 is only a number I threw out there, middle of the pack in max damage for T21's as far as I'm concerned, I've seen many player crafted ones over 750 max after a perfect slice and PU (not double sliced). It's entirely possible to be hit for 1500 damage by a riflemen in PvP with strafe2, it's happened to me a lot before I started using stun armor (so yes, that was even with a jawa).

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Was that Laser crafted using an exploit or one of those multi sliced weapons? Or is it a Krayt with mutli sliced and PU? Sorry but the damage ranges you are talking about are still way to high to be realistic. Either that or the WS's on my server are all incompetent.

That 750 max you mention probably is also Krayt. I have a good T21 with a 32% damage slice and 33% powerup and I'm not even at 700 on it.

Sorry but 1000 is not reasonable for a T21. It's off by a couple hundred points. Nor is 600 the middle of the pack, it's the high end without Krayts. Plus that 600 is with either a slice or a PU. High end T21 without a PU or slice is 400-410.

Nor is your Jawa example too believeable. A 1500 shot from a Jawa prior to using Stun layers? That would require a 1200 max damage Jawa if using SS2 in the attack. That wasn't a player crafter weapon.

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No, it's not multisliced or exploited. Made with 186 tissues a LONG time ago (tissue's probably been nerfed since then, it wasn't exceptional/legendary tissues at the time). And just because the **edit**ing things aren't god damn stock weapons doesn't mean they can't **edit**ing exist, gee, my weaponsmith can't make stock scatters with 500 max damage, but gee golly I have 7 of them.

Of coarse I'm talking about krayted weapons, or gorax enhanced, or other looted components, and if you're NOT using krayt weapons then no matter what slice you get or PU you put in it you are using LOW end weapons, 600 max for a T21 is VERY reasonable, even for a noob riflemen with a bit of cash, 750 max for a T21 is ALSO VERY reasonable with good tissue and slice/PU. Don't even bother trying to tell me it's not because you seem to be **edit**ing fixed on only looking at god damn stock weapons and have no **edit**ing idea what krayt weapons even look like. Just stop even trying to understand it, you have no idea what good krayt tissue is.

And I'm not even going to begin with the jawa, it was multiple people that have hit me that hard, so it's VERY unlikely that it had anything to do with legendary weapons.

And that's it, this is getting stupid, I'm obviously talking with someone who has no idea what krayt tissue is, playing for at least a year and you're still a moron, congrats, that's quite an accomplishment. Don't worry, you'll get a krayt weapon sooner or later.

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Sleksheea wrote:

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DavidGX wrote:

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Sleksheea wrote:

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DavidGX wrote:
Uhg.. why do such stupid people continue to live?? Targetting the mind pool is overpowered?? THE MIND POOL IS UNDERPOWERED. How many times does this need to explained?

Seriously.. if you think rifleman needs to be nerfed please change your PA setting to "Special Needs" so we can tell you apart from the regular idiots. I can't believe this many people would totally ignore the real problems and go for the quick "OMGNURF!!111112" fix.

/sigh @ humanity

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Nice flaming there buddy. That all you can do here?

Think about it... if the mind pool is underpowered, and yet, that's the pool targeted by riflemen with such success, that causes riflemen to have a huge advantage, THUS riflemen are OVERPOWERED! DUAHHHHHHHHHH!

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I hate to say it but the "DUAHHHHHHHHHH" was the smarted thing you said in that post.

Riflemans advantage doesn't come from the rifleman profession itself, it comes from the HAM system, the pool it targets. The devs made it so mind can't be healed in beta because docs were able to keep themselves alive forever with stims. With the coming "sub-pool" HAM design this will be fixed. There's no need for such stupid "fixes" and "being prone/kneeling" or "capping speed" or any stupid ideas like that. You're trying to break one thing (rifleman) because something else (ham system) is broken. No good.

One-Star this post if you agree.

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You totally ignored the whole point of my post. You can't accept it can you. But I'm glad to see that YOU AGREE WITH ME in the fact that riflemen are overpowered. (You said "Riflemans advantage doesn't come from the rifleman profession itself, it comes from the HAM system, the pool it targets") So wait a minute!! Riflemen DO have an advantage! OMG does that mean OVERPOWERED!?! Hell ya. Like I said in my last post... the one you obviously didn't read, regardless of the source of the advantage, riflemen have one, thus they are overpowered. Oh, and please show me where I said I'm trying to break riflemen? LOL, making stuff up now are ya? Also glad to see you agree with me on all the other stuff I said in my last post, as you didn't say anything about that either.

For your information, the star rating system here is not supposed to be used to 'hurt' the poster like your doing. If you disagree with a post it doesn't mean it's a 1 star post. The stars are supposed to represent the level of decency they are written with, the effort of a logical attempt to post one's opinions and the lack of flaming within. If I disagree with your opinion but your post is clean and tidey, I give you at least 4 stars and then make a post about why I disagree with your opinion. You obviously can't handle a mature system like that.

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Message Edited by DavidGX on 08-02-2004 11:24 AM