Rifleman Archive
Thread: The range mod posts in Corre Forums
(from the shooter)
- Weapon range mods (bonus/distance x3)
- Pistol accuracy mod
- Pistol accuracy while standing mod
- Pistol accuracy while moving mod
- Creature to-hit mod
(from the target)
- Ranged defense mod
yazule you are the one trolling. no rifleman would have given any negative comments about fixing broken pistoleer skills. the proposal simply got many people mad and i bet it wouldnt have been posted like it was if it wasnt for jaegens speed calculation thread. no matter how hard you try to defend your class you didnt want a fix you wanted to nerf the 2 other ranged elite professions. now aldeon is trying to fight for a compromise so EACH elite prof will have it pros and cons. this should have been done via testing between the correspondents but aldeon never got a response to it.
Actually, nerfing pistol is a good start.
The nerfs are gonna hit everyone, get used to it. They CAN NOT bring everyone up to the level of pistoleer. This will negate all existing content. Red Cons are not meant to be soloed period. It doesn't matter if you a BH pistoleer hybrid or what. Red = Dead. They are not going to raise everyone up and THEN make new creatures and npcs to fight. It's stupid and a waste of their time.
What the dev's want to do is make more distinction between weapons. A ranged cap is a good idea, or at least alot higher penalties for outside of the ideal range.
And cover is no solution for rifleman. Unless "god mode" is given with it. If a rifleman is under cover no attack would reasonably be able to hit him. And keep in mind if you are right on top of someone prone they can't shoot at you anyways.
Since this has become a Pistoleer v. Rifleman issue...
The mainissue with the pistol in comparison with the rifle: Suppressing Fire. I've heard Pistoleers use this argument that Rifleman should use this ability more to keep the target at a distance. WIth a Pistol, I can shoot almost non-stop, so when I supress, I can usually get off 2 more specials b4 the target is able to recover...then supress again. VERY effective with the inherant spd of the Pistol.
Supress is infinately more important to a Rilfeman though. They NEED to use it to keep their opponent from closing to melee (else the x2.5 extra dmg). However, when the Rifleman uses it, he has to wait infinately longer...well 3+ seconds longer. By the time that the Rifleman is able to fire again, the target has recovered and closed (albeit only slightly). If the Rifleman doesn't use Supress again (minimal dmg if any), the target has plenty of time to close to melee attack, where the Rilfeman doesn't stand a chance. I don't think the Rifleman should have much of a chanceagainstmelee attack, but the melee attacker should be able to close to attack in just one shot. The rilfeman should have greater range so that the target has a greater distance to travel to close to melee.
Point being is that the same specials being used by a pistoleer are far more effective for them, even though they are needed more by the Rifleman.The only other issue is that Pistoleer skill mods (and Carbineer) are just as effective with other professions (and certs), and the rifle skill mods aren't (like using w/ the LLC or Acid Rifle).
I don't think there are any other issues about Pistoleer v. Rifleman though. We both have broken professions that need fixing.
K aldeon i guess we interpet holo's post differently, i seen it as they wouldnt drop the hard cap for pistols below 1 second due to latency issues, you see it as those affected by latency issues wont get the full benefit of the reduced speed cap.But im pretty sure i even seen jageen state that .5 second hard cap for pistols is to much.Sure i would love to fire twice a second, but its way to much when they are dropping the speed of carbines and rifles, and im sure most pistoleers will agree too.So im pretty sure in the end 1 second will be the hard cap for pistols.
Are you sure they wont double your damage?Have you asked?Have you been given an indication that a 20% boost is all you can hope to get?Right now their allowing commandos to run around 1 shot killing people why not let riflemen do the same?If any proffesions should be able to one shot kill it should the riflemen and commandos, they are after all the masters of sniping and heavy weapons respectively.The snipers motto is one shot one kill afterall isn't it?Of course if the opponenet is wearing good armour with a good PSG it may take several shots.After all people need to relize that in order to participate in PVP they should have good armour and psg's spices etc.
The big problem i'm starting to see is they may be reluctant to increase yourdamage appropriately because they view it as unbalancing in PVP.This is a problem because it also screws the riflemen in PVE, any increases the pistoleer/carbineer gets need to be matched to the riflemen in PVE, they can't up our damage signifigantly and riflemens only slightly when it comes to PVE.I'm pretty sure even the most hardcore PVP'ers out their still spend more time in PVE then PVP.They can't ( or shouldn't at least ) hurt the riflemen in PVE just so they're balanced in PvP.
But when i do the math i dont really see how doubling your damage would be really unbalancing in PVP.Say you have a 540 dmg rifle (using this as a figure cause i know my buddy has a 540 rifle) with the 75% PVP reduction thats 135 damage if ya got yer damage doubled with the 75% reduction that would only be 270, altho when ya add in AR 2 and 3 factors this may still be considered unbalancing by the devs.But would you settle for double damage in PVE but a higher reduction in PVP say like 85%ish.
Anotherproblem i do see from this whole increase to damage thing is that the rifle i used as an example was my buddies laser rifle.Correct me if im wrong but thats a tier 2 marksman rifle weapon and 1080 damage like that would just be way too much for mobs at that level range the way mobs are curently set up.This is an SOE issue the devs need to adress because as it sits im not sure most mobs will be able to stand up to increased damage they need to give carbine and rifle users in order to properly balance everyone out like they want to when they introduce the hard speed caps.Perhaps they need to make these hard speed caps a little closer like pistol 1, carbine 1.5, and rifle 2 secondsthat way they don't have to increase damage as much.Or perhaps they are going to have to increase mob hp across the board in order to balance it out.
Anyways these are just my thoughts.I couldnt stand to see another pistoleer vs random class001 start.I think we should all work together to improve,fix and balance our classes.This includes our correpsondents.
The difference between a commando one shot and our one shot would be, is there is only in 15 meter range and only on rifleman. Were ours would be wereever we can hit you from. Commando weapons are considered melee, so there shots gain 2.5x damage to us.
SOE isnt stupid enough to double our damage and give us one shots nearly 75 percent of the time. With commandos there one shots are limited and hard to achieve. Us, we would be able to do it at 60 meters, or whereever we can shoot you and hit. Doubling our damage would pretty much negate the reason they put in the 75 percent damage reduction.
AldeonAvardulin wrote:
He had no scout, so no creature to hit mods, but Im not sure what the range mods were on his FWG5, Ill ask him, or Hhel when one of them gets back. Hhel is the one who crafted it and has alot of them.
Thanks. Also, it probably isn't necessary for you to be the target again - the important question I think for this purpose is the bonus from the specials. You can just get relative values by doing a control run with autofire, and see how much your hit rate improves. I'm not sure how you did the 'moving' test (seems like it would be hard to control range, unless you happened to have two buildings corners that were 60m apart) so having the target prone and the shooter standing would probably be your best bet (the lower the control accuracy, more 'room' you have to accurately determine the specials accuracy - you seemed to have run into this problem with the high BS3 accuracy mod, I think).
You have to realize that by taking doctor your defense mod is really pretty low. I think it's much less obvious (and common) for people to have high defense mod relative to high accuracy mod, since all the accuracy mods are all located more or less in the same place (except BHs) while defense mods are all over the different classes. You can get +30 ranged defense from TKA precision, +19 from fencer stances/grips (+5 from novice fencer included), +18 from rifleman and +17 from marksman. This gives a total of +84 defense, and if you're grouped with a master SL you get another +30 ranged defense, putting you at +114 ranged defense. The difference between the hit rate on you and the guy with +114 ranged defense would be -44% in each respective category (so down to 31%/56%/18%) which is a HUGE difference. Note that if the pistoleer wasn't using specials, he'd have a -7% hit rate with autofire against the +114 ranged defense guy (probably caps at 5% though).
Defense is just harder to get, it doesn't necessarily mean accuracy is borked, just that you have to really build for defense if you want to avoid getting hit.
Aldeon can u run those 60m tests again using our point blank ideal range zero, DX2?DX2 is our acid based AR1 weapon with good wound percent.Thats what most pistoleerpeeps chose to use in PVP (unless they dabbled into BH)
I would love to see jaegen get together with ya and run some tests because i would like to see if both your logs match up.I'm one the biggest supporters of getting you riflemen buffed up and im a pistoleer.No offense but i don't know if i can really trust your logs as not being edited to reflect your point, because you have stated so many times that you are specifically trying to get pistoleer nerfed.
All you arguements about range revolve around PVP, so i need to ask why you chose to use our highest accuracy AR0 weapon instead of low accuracy AR1 PvP based weapon.I at least hope that when you run your tests on the rifle you chose to use your highest accuracy rifle so the comparison is fair between the fwg5 and whatever rifle you chose to base it against.
Like i say i would like to see you and jaegen get together and run the tests,unfortunately he has dabbled in the BH proffesion which may whack the results, perhaps thsi is why he doesn't want to do tests with you.Or it could possibly be that relations are at such a low between you and him that he just doesn't want to spend anytime with you.
I hope you and jaegen can mend fences and get a good working relationship going because having you two at each others throats does neither side any good.If the correspondent can work together alot more good can be accomplished.
And please stop trying to say that we will be shooting 6 to 1.Jaegen himself has already stated it's too much and holo said pretty much it probably won't happen.I can almost assure you their is no way that we willbe dropping below the 1 second cap.By keeping us at the one second cap they will have just cut the the upping needed to the other classes in half.Their gonna have a hard enough time trying to balance things out with pistols at 1 second with the hard caps for rifle and carbine, their is no way their going to magnify it by dropping us tohalf asecond.
Im not trying to offend you when i question the authenticity of yourlogs, but i find it hard to 100% trust your logs when i have seen you state so many times you want pistoleer nerfed plain and simple.