Rifleman Archive

Thread: Rifleman/Sniper right? Wrong.

Owen-Lars
Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:40 pm
#92

i think there is.


Both use rifles yes but when someone says rifleman to me, i instantly get this image of the grunts of swg, long range weapon users.We specialise in range, power and accuracy. We can pull of sniper like moves such as headshots but that isnt our promary purpose. Our main prupose is to provide the power to take down targets, the damage to hurt.


Snipers as i would have them in swg are completely different to this and instead specialise in not getting hit, staying out of harms way and basically sneaking about without being seen.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
JuggernautRM
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:13 pm
#93

"I think we should think of ourselves as Riflemen (or Riflemaidens!) not snipers. We have sniper-ish skills, but we ain't snipers. (You are absolutely right, Avad) We are more of SAW gunner. (I tried on Americas Army. Its sweet.) I would love a special, "Vertical Butt Stroke." But I am ok with what I have right now."

Actually, Commando's are the "supposed" heavy weapon user's in this game, yet sadly are borked out of hell. And if any profession gets a SAW gunner sort of weapon, it would the commandos.



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FearlessBob
Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:19 am
#94






RogueII wrote:

So who thinks that the SWG Sniper class is a true sniper profession? Anyone that said yes is wrong, and I have proof.


A) Sniper's attacks should be HAM specific. The pistoleer shot's are closer to real life rifle shots. Eyeshot? When I'm shooting my .45 at atarget Im not aiming for his eye, it's "head, body, legs". When I'm sitting behind a nice .50 Barret using a 200x precision scope, covered in grass and a ghuille suit? (think about it for a second now)....Im aiming for pupil, heart, or kneecap. Period.


B) Rifleman have NO melee defense. When I'm in the field as a Sniper, and my position is comprimised, I'm gonna stand up and wack the son of a gun in the nose with the butt of my rifle. Novice rifleman should get a RifleButt attack. No specific damage, just a 2 or 3 second stun to give time to burst run out to decent rifle range.


Sniper is a support position, unless deployed as an assassin. In real combat, a Sniper is going to compliment the rest of his unit, doing damage that matches what the other members are doing and assisting in acheiving the mission objective. Applied to Galaxies, whoever wrote the Sniper and Pistoleer damage tables was either schizophrenic or sniffing too much glue in the closet at work. They're backwards.


I trained with a Spec Forces Sniper and can honestly say that after playing asa Rifleman, aiming is pointless and our attacks are all wrong. As a sniper, I should be able to choose where my shot goes, have better defense as a novice, and if anyone should have the ability to "one shot, one kill", it outta be a Sniper. Deathblowing an already incapped target is nice, but what do soldiers in combat fear the most? That oneround they don't see comin that goes right through their jacket and their heart. (And I might add that the Sniper who firedthatshothad been studying and placing that shot well before the round was fired, and he decided exactly where that round would be placed; i.e.eyeball, breastbone, or kneecap [in the case of an incapacitating shot for a snatch n grab mission.])


Just a few observations.


Grodaak


Wookiee Frontiersman
Sniper/Scout






1. It's a ghillie suit. I have no clue what a ghuille suit is.


2. There is no such thing as a 200x rifle scope. Unless you are shooting at the moon and then you'd need a special image-stabilized rig...and a tripod just for the scope.


3. No long rifleman, ever, under any circumstances, would attempt to "kneecap" a target.


4.If your position in the field is compromised, the enemy likely has at least 500m run to get to you. AT LEAST 500m, more practically 800m or more, leaving plenty of time for you and your spotter to fall back to your egress route/exfil point. Sticking around to "rifle butt" someone is not an option. Unless you want to dodge the incoming mortar rounds.


5. The manufacturer is BARRETT...with two "T"s.




Message Edited by FearlessBob on 09-13-2004 12:19 PM



&d FearlessBob d&
Primony
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:46 am
#95

Uh..guys...any good t21 has a scope on it...ask a master weaponsmith...same with dxr6's u cant use them but the weaponsmith puts them on to increase range...so we dont have unscoped rifles....we have scoped rifles with out being able to use them..so we qualify as a sniper...ty


primony intrepid

Owen-Lars
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:52 pm
#96

Erm having a scope on a rifle doesnt make you a sniper primony. It simply means you have a tool at your disposal that enables you to enhance your long range targeting when the time comes.


The power of the scope, the power/accuracy of the rifle and ultimatly the skills you have and usewould depend if you were 'trying' to be a sniper or not. Not simply if your rifle had a aiming aid on it.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
XaverriJade7
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:29 pm
#97






Primony wrote:

the weaponsmith puts them on to increase range...so we dont have unscoped rifles...




We do have unscoped rifles. They're the ones made without scopes. And WSs don't put them on there to increase range- that's impossible.They do increaseaccuracy though. You can say that scopes make us snipers when we use them to manually zoom in on targets. Which isn't likely to happen.

Message Edited by XaverriJade7 on 09-14-2004 06:30 PM





Kezia Sunshade
RIS Certified - Master Armorsmith - 12 Exp. Pts
Vendor locations:
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ZuluShin
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:59 pm
#98






Primony wrote:

Uh..guys...any good t21 has a scope on it...ask a master weaponsmith...same with dxr6's u cant use them but the weaponsmith puts them on to increase range...so we dont have unscoped rifles....we have scoped rifles with out being able to use them..so we qualify as a sniper...ty


primony intrepid







so if i put a scope on a geo blaster or scatter pistol (since a ws can put em) that makes me a sniper???or a laser carbine with a stock and a scope that makes me a sniper too?f*cking id*ot
guessit
Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:41 pm
#99

"Sniper is a support position, unless deployed as an assassin. In real combat, a Sniper is going to compliment the rest of his unit, doing damage that matches what the other members are doing and assisting in acheiving the mission objective. Applied to Galaxies, whoever wrote the Sniper and Pistoleer damage tables was either schizophrenic or sniffing too much glue in the closet at work. They're backwards"



Having played both pistoleer, and rifleman I can tell you havent played as a pistoleer.


Rifleman/ranger is UBER because you can whack an entire field of yellow/reds and they rarely see it; most of the time never.As for having melee defense, cmon, having the strongest range (which we do unless you are retarded and have crappy weapons) means we have to have a weakness; saying we need strong melee defense is like a tka saying he needs a devastating ranged attack.


"and if anyone should have the ability to "one shot, one kill", it outta be a Sniper."


One shot kills are lame dude. VERY lame in pvp, regardless of who is doing them; they are lame. People would be crying for more nerfs, the whole ball of wax. I can tell you dont have much experience with pvp games in the mmorpg genre or you would know these things. It is really amusing that you would want the ability to instakill your opponent; kind of negates the whole idea of competition.












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Owen-Lars
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:27 am
#100

I agree that one shot one kills are out of the question, however i believe the main contributer to why this would not work in SWG is the fact combat and more specifically PvP takes far too long to get into with too much investment in credits.


If i die ive got to que up for another buff set, wait for my food/drink stomach to clear etc. Its all a time sink and ruins the chances of accessible pvp to a wide audience.


If you had pvp where if you die, you clone at your nearest clone center then perhaps after a 3/4 minute timer you become overt again. Couple thatwith the redundance of buffs as a must have item OR have avery 'nerfed' version of buffs stay after the 3/4 minute refresh timer is up and you have yourself a very accessible pvp system that is attractive to a wide audience because the cost both in credits and time has been severly reduced.


If we had a pvp system like that then people wouldnt mind as much taking a super high damage shot from a sniper who has been stalking them, perhaps not a one shot, one kill but a very powerfull shot. This would be down to the fact the pvp death wouldnt cost alot and you could simply get right back into combat without wasting a hell of alot of time getting refreshed.


That is the only way i could see super powerfull perhaps even one shot, one kill abilities working. Also i dont think riflemen should be the class to be snipers, you would be able to pick up a master melee profession or two and simple change to melee when someone finds you. Thats not how i want to see snipers, i want snipers to be more or less dead if they get found, must rely of hiding tactics to evade capture etc.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
KillJarJarBinks
Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:14 am
#101

You can't apply real-world examples to in-game mechanics.


How many people do you know can take a pistol shot at point-blank range and live? Maybe pistols should get a one-shot kill as well???? How many times do you need to be stabbed with a sword to die? Answer: Once.


Heck, let's give everyone a one-shot kill and make PvP completely boring and pointless!!!


Speaking of pointless, this thread is just that, pointless.


I'm sorry that the RIFLEMAN (not Sniper) class doesn't live up to your unrealistic in-game expectations. Switch to Carbineer, or Pistoleer, and you will see that we don't have it half as bad as others do.


Calidare
Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:43 pm
#102

ok ur rite u cant use real-world in the game but u should be able to choose which ham u can shoot at and get high damage for the shot. i have to admit im not a pvp but a pvm'er
XaverriJade7
Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:49 pm
#103

Why not apply real world mechanics? There are plenty of defenses to be had in PvP, so it's not like 10 shots=10 hits. I feel itwould add a lot more challenge and strategy to the PvP aspect of the game if 1-3 hits=incap. No one dare try to say that a 10 minute duel with hundreds of hits being landed by both fighters is anything but ridiculous.





Kezia Sunshade
RIS Certified - Master Armorsmith - 12 Exp. Pts
Vendor locations:
Outland, Naboo (7013, 3646) - Kashyyykian Hunting Armor & Imperial Prototype PSGs
Elexis' Hard Wars Cafe in Paradox, Lok (1330, -305) - Kashyyykian Hunting Armor
KillJarJarBinks
Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:41 pm
#104






XaverriJade7 wrote:

Why not apply real world mechanics? There are plenty of defenses to be had in PvP, so it's not like 10 shots=10 hits. I feel itwould add a lot more challenge and strategy to the PvP aspect of the game if 1-3 hits=incap. No one dare try to say that a 10 minute duel with hundreds of hits being landed by both fighters is anything but ridiculous.







That is, until you get incapped in 1 hit.


I've played many MMORPGs, the goal of the game is to have fun. I knew if I could get killed in 1 hit, I wouldn't participate in PvP, it's pointless and definately not fun. I agree, hundreds of hits is ridiculous, but 1-3 hits is just as ridiculous.


And what kind of strategy would a 1-3 hit kill promote? Defense stacking, maybe speed capping, but if you get killed in 1 or 2 hits, there isn't time for strategy, it's spam, spam, spam, and hope you get the first and second hit in before your opponent. Hardly "strategy" if you ask me. Melee players would be dead before they got into combat range against a ranged opponent, hardly fair for them, and not fair to those who's character concept means they can't pick up a ranged profession.


I can aim a pistol/carbine/knife/sword/hammer/punch at your legs, your head, your body, your arms, why should only rifleman get the ability to pick and choose HAM targets, and have devastating damage as well if it does hit?


With any game the goal is balance, while I will agree that SOE has borked the balance of this game, I won't agree to something that over-powers one class, and under-powers other classes, even if it is a class I play.


Fact is, Riflemen are one of the few classes in the game that can cause massive damage to an unhealable HAM pool. To many other players, we are over-powered as is, and I firmly believe the nerf bat will be swung at us with the combat rebalance. Our one weakness is close-up combat, at range we own, and that's the way it should be. Why make us even more over-powered than we already are?


We're not meant to own everyone, we're not meant to be the end-all, be-all of ranged professions. Pistoleer and Carbineer need to be brought in line with our abilities (or us with theirs) before adding abilities to what is considered by the majority of players to be THE over-powered ranged profession. Quit being selfish and realize exactly what you are asking for.

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