Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman/Sniper right? Wrong.
KillJarJarBinks wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Why not apply real world mechanics? There are plenty of defenses to be had in PvP, so it's not like 10 shots=10 hits. I feel itwould add a lot more challenge and strategy to the PvP aspect of the game if 1-3 hits=incap. No one dare try to say that a 10 minute duel with hundreds of hits being landed by both fighters is anything but ridiculous.
That is, until you get incapped in 1 hit.
I've played many MMORPGs, the goal of the game is to have fun. I knew if I could get killed in 1 hit, I wouldn't participate in PvP, it's pointless and definately not fun. I agree, hundreds of hits is ridiculous, but 1-3 hits is just as ridiculous.
And what kind of strategy would a 1-3 hit kill promote? Defense stacking, maybe speed capping, but if you get killed in 1 or 2 hits, there isn't time for strategy, it's spam, spam, spam, and hope you get the first and second hit in before your opponent. Hardly "strategy" if you ask me. Melee players would be dead before they got into combat range against a ranged opponent, hardly fair for them, and not fair to those who's character concept means they can't pick up a ranged profession.
I can aim a pistol/carbine/knife/sword/hammer/punch at your legs, your head, your body, your arms, why should only rifleman get the ability to pick and choose HAM targets, and have devastating damage as well if it does hit?
With any game the goal is balance, while I will agree that SOE has borked the balance of this game, I won't agree to something that over-powers one class, and under-powers other classes, even if it is a class I play.
Fact is, Riflemen are one of the few classes in the game that can cause massive damage to an unhealable HAM pool. To many other players, we are over-powered as is, and I firmly believe the nerf bat will be swung at us with the combat rebalance. Our one weakness is close-up combat, at range we own, and that's the way it should be. Why make us even more over-powered than we already are?
We're not meant to own everyone, we're not meant to be the end-all, be-all of ranged professions. Pistoleer and Carbineer need to be brought in line with our abilities (or us with theirs) before adding abilities to what is considered by the majority of players to be THE over-powered ranged profession. Quit being selfish and realize exactly what you are asking for.
Asking for people not to be asses is on my list too...
Fine, 1-3 hitsmight make too many people sad(even though for many PvPers 1hit=5-6 shots 
)- there is still no excuse for how things are now. Let's meet somewhere in the middle then. Say about 10 hits. Sounds about how things were at one point early in the game.
Not that I should get hung up on your personal attack, but seriously- if you read this forum and saw how I responded to our many trolls, you would know that I want nothing for this profession until all the others are fixed. I care so much about getting everyone else fixed and making this game better. Never call me selfish again.
Pistoleer and Carbineer need to be brought in line with our abilities (or us with theirs) before adding abilities to what is considered by the majority of players to be THE over-powered ranged profession.
Carbineer is great, but the other flaws within the system make it near powerless. I know because I was one for a while and tried it again on TC2 with BH carbines. You cannot beat someone with buffs/armor and stacked defenses. However, my Pistoleer/BH from TC2 never lost to a ranged profession(Rifleman or other). The only ones that stood much of a chance were defense-stacked meleers. I cannot even believe how overpowered that template is after experiencing it firsthand.
I can aim a pistol/carbine/knife/sword/hammer/punch at your legs, your head, your body, your arms, why should only rifleman get the ability to pick and choose HAM targets, and have devastating damage as well if it does hit?
Huh? Riflemen can either target the Mind pool or a random pool. We cannot 'pick and choose' as we please, thank you. TKAs can target Mind though most people choose to overlook that attack(even though it is way better than given credit for). BHs can target Mind. Can either profession do it as well as Riflemen? No. Should anyone be able to? Only Swordsmen. Granted, it is unhealable, but that will soon be fixed. There are already measures for it being put in-game(see Aurellian Plant fruit). We don't have enough ability to heal Mind yet, but believe me, we'll get there.
And what kind of strategy would a 1-3 hit kill promote? Defense stacking, maybe speed capping, but if you get killed in 1 or 2 hits, there isn't time for strategy, it's spam, spam, spam, and hope you get the first and second hit in before your opponent. Hardly "strategy" if you ask me. Melee players would be dead before they got into combat range against a ranged opponent, hardly fair for them, and not fair to those who's character concept means they can't pick up a ranged profession.
1-3 hits would require a heck of a lot more strategy than 1000 hits, but you knew that As I said, let's say they allow for the average PvP encounter to last 10 hits(not just 10 shots). That makes you really think about using that Stun-inflicting attack or that Blind attack to give you an extra edge. Sure people use them now, but there is far more spam, spam, spam as you said than actual thinking before shooting. Melee players might be dead before they got within range, but that would mean they don't know how to play. Sorry if people don't like that, but it's true. If you cannot use a ranged weapon, do not stand out in the open. Simple as that. Besides, don't tell me you can't cross those '64 meters' in 2 seconds. Or that you can't lunge 15-20 meters making it even easier. Remember- Riflemen have next to zero status defenses. Unlesswe stack, we're going down.As long as our opponents use theirhead when fighting.
XaverriJade7 wrote
Asking for people not to be asses is on my list too...
Fine, 1-3 hitsmight make too many people sad(even though for many PvPers 1hit=5-6 shots
Not that I should get hung up on your personal attack, but seriously- if you read this forum and saw how I responded to our many trolls, you would know that I want nothing for this profession until all the others are fixed. I care so much about getting everyone else fixed and making this game better. Never call me selfish again.
Okay, so let's fix other classes before even considering one-shot kills for riflemen, targetable HAM pools, or anything else that's been brought up in this thread. Even entertaining the thought at this point is kind of pointless considering the millions of other problems that need to be fixed first, and the fact that Rifleman is a powerful ranged profession already. And I agree, a 10-shot PvP encounter would be a good balance that would allow time to actually plan out your attacks and have some type of strategy. But saying "I have a sniper title therefore I should be able to one-shot kill, target specific HAM pools, and basically own anyone in under 2 seconds in a PvP environment" IS selfish. It's not taking game balance into consideration.
Carbineer is great, but the other flaws within the system make it near powerless. I know because I was one for a while and tried it again on TC2 with BH carbines. You cannot beat someone with buffs/armor and stacked defenses. However, my Pistoleer/BH from TC2 never lost to a ranged profession(Rifleman or other). The only ones that stood much of a chance were defense-stacked meleers. I cannot even believe how overpowered that template is after experiencing it firsthand.
BH and Pistoleer are two different professions. The Pistoleer tree is borked when taken by itself, add BH skills or Smuggler skills and it's a completely different beast. Low blow in the smuggler tree rocks, as do any of the BH pistol skills. A Rifleman/TK/Fencer doesn't have the same problems a Ranger/Rifleman has with melee defense. We're not talking about class combinations here, we're talking about single ranged classes. Rifleman vs. Carbineer vs. Pistoleer, the Rifleman is at the top of the totem pole.
Huh? Riflemen can either target the Mind pool or a random pool. We cannot 'pick and choose' as we please, thank you. TKAs can target Mind though most people choose to overlook that attack(even though it is way better than given credit for). BHs can target Mind. Can either profession do it as well as Riflemen? No. Should anyone be able to? Only Swordsmen. Granted, it is unhealable, but that will soon be fixed. There are already measures for it being put in-game(see Aurellian Plant fruit). We don't have enough ability to heal Mind yet, but believe me, we'll get there.
I was responding to the multiple times that targetable HAMs has been mentioned in this thread, I'm sorry if I didn't mentionother's names up front, it's difficult to respond to multiple people at once and not have half your post turn into a quoting session (much like this one is). The comment is in context.
1-3 hits would require a heck of a lot more strategy than 1000 hits, but you knew that
I agree, there's too much spamming in PvP as it is now, which sucks. But 1-3 shots worsens the situation, and turns a PvP encouter into a 3-5 second spamfest that's over before you blink.
How long does it take you to fire 3 shots? 3 seconds? If you initiate PvP in an open field against a melee player, could you take him down in 3 shots before he closes that50-45 meter gap before they can even initiate an attack? If not, how healthy do you think he will be when he does close the gap? I'm not even going to start about posture change attacks that will ensure he never reaches lunge range. In this case, it has nothing to do with their skill in playing their class, and everything to do with a stacked PvP environment that favors ranged attacks. What do we expect them to do, never leave town or the safety of cover just in case someone might decide to shoot at them?
Personally, the idea of turning the Rifleman profession into a one-shot kill Sniper profession just sickens me. I believe there should never, in any MMORPG, be a class that can kill other players of equal level/skill/competency in one shot. If you want that, play CS, it has no place in an MMORPG environment.
Maybetargetable HAM pools, but the same arguement we make for them need to be made for other professions as well. A rifle isn't the only weapon that can be aimed.
I think we're both looking for balance in this game, and I think we both agree that the idea of a 1-shot kill for Riflemen is a ridiculous idea. Basically, we agree.
KillJarJarBinks wrote:
Basically, we agree.
Basically, I suppose so. I do think you do overestimate us though.Or maybeIjust overestimate what most PvPers can do(I don't mean that to sound as bad as I think it does, sorry 
). One thing you outta know about me- I will not support Riflemen being only snipers. It sickens me as well. 
Karden has a good plan for meshing Rifleman with Sniper(we can't avoid it entirely since so many paying customers want it). If you haven't read it, it's a nice little something to do 
First thing's first though- kill Jar Jar. :jarjar: 
guessit wrote:
Well, rifle IS the most effective ranged right now.
We hit the speed cap which means we get the harder hitting weapon that fires just as fast as a pistol. Next we get the ability to target the most vulnerable pool- mind. Finally, our attacks which do hit the mind; actually work, whereas in pistol bodyshot 3 hits for maybe 1/4 of the damage.
This is being fixed.
After doing a little testing around, i found carbine to be the weakest because it had so few choices of weapons, also because knockdowns are harder to pull off in pvp.
Carbineers tend to say that they are strong- if you know how to play it. Even if the KDs are hard to use, they have other status effects at their disposal. Fix buffs and armor and Carbineers get a lot more powerful(as they should)
Pistol though was a close second to being most gimp; weak hitting specials unless you are a bh; smuggler specials were gimp for pvp since the kd doesnt have a dizzy and kd are hard to pull off anyways.The pistol line has 1 redeeming feature for hunting mobs, and that is fan shot, but rifle gets cone shots too. So pistol comes up incomplete, especially when considering rifle at master level hits very well in close.
Pistoleers don't have a Dizzy, nor do we have a KD. Seems fair. I wouldn't call their specials weak- even with a 3x damage multiplier, a good pistol can be devastating. Again, armor is the problem here.
Rifle comes out on top because it has hardest hitters and ability to targetmind pool, with a skilled rifleman possibly able to cause a kd with dizzy and suppression fire.
Rifles are generally the most damaging weapons, but AP has a lot to do with things. Example: On an AR2 target, the T-21 does 125% damage whereas an AP1 pistol will be doing 50%.
As for even considering 1 hit kills in pvp, all I can say is LOL.
It's not as ridiculous as you think. Besides,I'd say it'sbeen established that it would never be allowed, so don't let it worry you.Save your 'LOL's for people that think 100 hits in PvP is acceptable. Not that'd it ever make a good argument