Rifleman Archive
Thread: Bump this up if u will quit if rifle is as weak as it seems it will be after the revamp
Nadiel
Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:42 pm
#66
nerf all the professions, 50% will be working on jedi if not more. people bitched about the crafting "nerf" so it only went live for 1 day and it really wasn't a nerf at all. on my server people made perfect repair tools, crafting stations and even Bio pets with MEDIUM armor and 60% resists. just stick it out till the rebalance. it's you're a true rifleman you wont leave because you no longer can outdamage groups of people for looting rights
Thrasher13
Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:57 pm
#67
Isn't the combat revamp publish 11 .I thought we were testing publish 9 at the moment. Combat revamp is like 2 months + away.
Veustuh
Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:31 am
#68
AvaLance wrote:
Ohhh yes, Riflemen will be soo weak after the revamp. I mean, they won't have the ability to specifically target the only un-healable damage pool at a range! They won't have the most effective weapon against armor! Heavens, they may not even be able to stay indefinitely concealed in PvE!
I have no idea how this post got four stars. Rifleman is second only to Combat Medic in terms of PvP effectiveness and just about tied with Swordsmen for PvE domination. The only other thing that begins to hold a candle is Fencer for PvP, but they're melee, and can't hold their own in PvE.
Edit: Sorry if this seems negative, but Riflemen are really in no place to complain.
Message Edited by AvaLance on 06-24-2004 10:43 PM
Yes rifleman will become the player equivalent of pets in PvP. It's obvious you don't recall the 2.5x melee damage we took in the past nor the fact that buffs and great armor haven't been in the game since the start. The only reason why rifleman has become the most popular class (as CM is the 2nd most for many don't like wasting that many skill points on it or the grinding) is that with secondary buffs of 2k+ and armor that resists all damage types except for one that can exceed 80% makes all other weapons and attacks worthless. The reason why players target mind pool is even with buffs for secondary pools and mind food it still doesn't stand as strong as both Health and Action pools. This is the second main cause of why players go for Rifleman and CM.
You're screen name has been registered a day before mine so obviously you ran into many rifleman players back in the days. Of all the rifleman you ran into how many wore complete sets of armor? How many wore helmets? How many spammed HS2 (HS3 was broke back then) or Strafe Shot 2 endlessly? None if any as the costs were too great even with muon. Rifleman's weakness was the fact that our ham costs made it impossible for us to run fully armored. This was balance as if you closed range we could do nothing more than run from our attackers. Now all we have to do is stand there, eat anti KD/Dizzy food and laugh as we waste your mind.
This isn't our fault nor the fault of our profession but the fault of the negligence of the developers. They were the once who lacked the foresight into the idea of buffs and armor. They've even claimed that they had no idea that players would make buffs, armor and weapons that exceed their expectations. On a side note, armor originally before early February could have been sliced up to 100% resist to all damage types except stun.
How long will it be before other classes start to feel the pain? What would pistoleers say if they could no longer engage targets at more than 25m? What would carbineers say if they could no longer attack at less than 15m but no more than 50m? What would melee players say if they could no longer attack out past 3m even with a weapon (20m = 65.6 feet)? I fail to see how just because the devs fallacy of allowing more than 1k+ in secondary buffs is a perfect reason to nerf one class.
The real problem is they aren't doing one change to the rifleman class but 3 which will completely gimp our class not only in PvP but also PvE. First off we'll move slower based upon which weapon we have equipped; this means less time to evade incoming attacks. We're also being told that we'll have to put up with a speed cap of around one special per 3 seconds. This is insane as a 64m gap can be closed in under 3 seconds and less if the attacker uses melee lunge 2 on the rifleman (remember attacking 65.6 feet with a melee weapon). Add to this it's possible that our max damage will be capped or even brought down so that we don't do as much damage as we currently do. Not only this but we're being told that our accuracy will be greatly reduced if we move or fire from any other position than prone. Going prone takes at least 1.5 seconds to process and animate longer if you're in combat.
So from all of this if I were to get into a fight lets say in Theed outside the starport I will need to first do a /prone (1.5 seconds wasted) then select my attack (flushing 2) fire, then select another attack (3 second wait) and hope that the player I'm attacking feels bad for me and doesn't hit me since while I'm on the ground the game figures that I should take 2x the damage. In 6 seconds at 64m I have to pray that I can catch this guy off guard and he doesn't auto attack me. Oh did I mention that our HAM pools regen at almost half the speed they normally do while we're burst running and fighting? I also have to hope that he won't come after me because it will take 2 seconds for my character to stand then and even longer if I plan to change out weapons while standing. Also, depending on the rifle I cannot move near as fast as my attacker if he's anything but rifleman. So in around 15 seconds I have to hope to beat a buffed comp'd player without him getting in one attack on me for anything less would mean I'm dead. If you call this fair and balanced I'd hate to see you're definition of unbalanced.
DavidGX
Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:12 am
#69
Betatoxin wrote:
Weak is relative, the balance pass will effect everyone.
Right now from what I read here that the consesus seems to be that the rifle profession works. Its specials work, it has decent weapons with varied damage types and overall is a fun profession to play.
On the other hand carbineer and pistoleer both have significant design and bug issues that prevent them from being what they could be.
Since the balance pass is about balancing combat and does not include a profession revamp for carbineer or pistoleer what you will likely find is that rifleman will be the profession that works and was nerfed versus carbineer and pistoleer that are broken and got nerfed, along with everyone else.
As far as the FOTM, rifleman like other mind targeting professions are popular because they target mind, the great unhealable HAM pool. After the balance pass though no one is going to be pool specific since the developers have finally realized what we saw all along, pool specificity within the professions was a very dumb idea.
Right. Rifleman works. It's the HAM problems that cause it to be so much more successful in pvp than others. It's not riflemans fault.
But there's nothing wrong with one profession attacking one specific pool. It's just the pool unbalance that makes it seem like a stupid idea, once mind is as good as the other pools.. all the rifleman/cm/etc problems will go away. And then ignorant whiners like raz1337 get laughed at
*laughs at raz1337 the ignorant whiner*
Brainplay
Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:01 am
#70
DavidGX wrote:
Right. Rifleman works. It's the HAM problems that cause it to be so much more successful in pvp than others. It's not riflemans fault.
But there's nothing wrong with one profession attacking one specific pool. It's just the pool unbalance that makes it seem like a stupid idea, once mind is as good as the other pools.. all the rifleman/cm/etc problems will go away. And then ignorant whiners like raz1337 get laughed at
*laughs at raz1337 the ignorant whiner*
Totally agree with you there. The HAM system is a large failure. Overpowered doctor buffs, overpowered stimB's, insane resist armor and then a gimpy MIND.
If you dont do MIND damage in PvP then you better have a dizzy/KD combo and a stun weapon. With a 10% psg and high condition or even 1% stun layered armor the fencer and pistoleer's combat effectiveness takes a MAJOR decline. Heck even being able to stand up and heal yourself reduces their effectiveness. People hate CM's..why? Is it because they can area poison yourHEALTH and ACTION? Nope! It because they can poison your gimpy MIND (like rebels do).
If they make the MIND pool and substats on par with health and action pools you'll see a big change in PvP tactics and character templates. Eventually though it will be all melee with a few carbineers since riflemen were aboutthe only ranged profession able to effectively combat any melee.
DarinW
Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:06 pm
#71
They're going to nerf this game so badly that It's going to turn back into pokamon wars, because CH will be the uber class again. hehe
Nadiel
Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:56 am
#73
you forgot the fact you have the hardest hitting weapons with the best AP and 90 speed mod at master
DavidGX wrote:
Right. Rifleman works. It's the HAM problems that cause it to be so much more successful in pvp than others. It's not riflemans fault.
But there's nothing wrong with one profession attacking one specific pool. It's just the pool unbalance that makes it seem like a stupid idea, once mind is as good as the other pools.. all the rifleman/cm/etc problems will go away. And then ignorant whiners like raz1337 get laughed at
*laughs at raz1337 the ignorant whiner*
Unique_Handle
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:03 am
#74
You'd think that after nerfing half the professions into whimpy piles of junk they'd learn that nerfing isn't the way to do it.
I have spent countless millions on speedattachments/accuracy tapes and rifles.
I just picked up a crate of T21's yesterday to get that one good damageslice, and everytime I need a new T-21 I buy a crate, just to get one single 30%+ damage slice... how happy am I, and the 100's of people that have done the same, going to be once this is nerfed into a profession beaten even by BH?
Rifleman is a very popular profession, and by nerfing it they are going to make many people unhappy, which will lead to less people playing.
Anyways, I don't think I'm playing this game much longer, I don't really care if they nerf rifleman or not... its just getting worse and worse because:
1: new content added = you die!
2: nerf nerf nerf.. wait ... nerf nerf nerf... wait... supernerf (combat revamp)... wait.. nerf nerf nerf ... and so on ad infinum.
...they are never going to stop nerfing you, and they are never going to fix stupid bugs like bikes not being repaired after being repaired etc.
Instead, they are busy working on new content (which means you die).
Anyways, I'm done whining for now...
I have spent countless millions on speedattachments/accuracy tapes and rifles.
I just picked up a crate of T21's yesterday to get that one good damageslice, and everytime I need a new T-21 I buy a crate, just to get one single 30%+ damage slice... how happy am I, and the 100's of people that have done the same, going to be once this is nerfed into a profession beaten even by BH?
Rifleman is a very popular profession, and by nerfing it they are going to make many people unhappy, which will lead to less people playing.
Anyways, I don't think I'm playing this game much longer, I don't really care if they nerf rifleman or not... its just getting worse and worse because:
1: new content added = you die!
2: nerf nerf nerf.. wait ... nerf nerf nerf... wait... supernerf (combat revamp)... wait.. nerf nerf nerf ... and so on ad infinum.
...they are never going to stop nerfing you, and they are never going to fix stupid bugs like bikes not being repaired after being repaired etc.
Instead, they are busy working on new content (which means you die).
Anyways, I'm done whining for now...
Brainplay
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:26 am
#75
Nadiel wrote:
you forgot the fact you have the hardest hitting weapons with the best AP and 90 speed mod at master
DavidGX wrote:
Right. Rifleman works. It's the HAM problems that cause it to be so much more successful in pvp than others. It's not riflemans fault.
But there's nothing wrong with one profession attacking one specific pool. It's just the pool unbalance that makes it seem like a stupid idea, once mind is as good as the other pools.. all the rifleman/cm/etc problems will go away. And then ignorant whiners like raz1337 get laughed at
*laughs at raz1337 the ignorant whiner*
Unless they fixed it recently we didn't get an AP bonus in PvP, every melee except Pikemen hit their 1 second speed cap before master, swordmen and pikeman weapons equal and surpass all of our rifles except the T21 in damage, and we have really gimp defenses against melee while they all have better ranged defense (not even pistoleer defenses are equal to fencers).
Seriously, can anyone remember a melee fight in any of the movies besides Jedi? Last I checked the ranged weapons owned the battlefield, not the other way around (I just set myself up for "I never saw CM's either" comments didn't I).
More shooting less kung fu plz 
Brainplay
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:28 am
#76
Nadiel wrote:
you forgot the fact you have the hardest hitting weapons with the best AP and 90 speed mod at master :smileytongue:
DavidGX wrote:
Right. Rifleman works. It's the HAM problems that cause it to be so much more successful in pvp than others. It's not riflemans fault.
But there's nothing wrong with one profession attacking one specific pool. It's just the pool unbalance that makes it seem like a stupid idea, once mind is as good as the other pools.. all the rifleman/cm/etc problems will go away. And then ignorant whiners like raz1337 get laughed at
*laughs at raz1337 the ignorant whiner*
Unless they fixed it recently we didn't get an AP bonus in PvP, every melee except Pikemen hit their 1 second speed cap before master, swordmen and pikeman weapons equal and surpass all of our rifles except the T21 in damage, and we have really gimp defenses against melee while they all have better ranged defense (not even pistoleer defenses are equal to fencers).
Seriously, can anyone remember a melee fight in any of the movies besides Jedi? Last I checked the ranged weapons owned the battlefield, not the other way around (I just set myself up for "I never saw CM's either" comments didn't I).
More shooting less kung fu plz
gloga
Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:38 pm
#77
i could CARE LESS if rifle can't target an unhealable pool it is the other parts that are bugging me. the 6 second time to run away is a big thing 3 seconds to put the gun away and another 3 to take it out u obviously haven't been reading the posts or u would have seen this statement 3-4 times already
AvaLance wrote:
Ohhh yes, Riflemen will be soo weak after the revamp. I mean, they won't have the ability to specifically target the only un-healable damage pool at a range! They won't have the most effective weapon against armor! Heavens, they may not even be able to stay indefinitely concealed in PvE!
I have no idea how this post got four stars. Rifleman is second only to Combat Medic in terms of PvP effectiveness and just about tied with Swordsmen for PvE domination. The only other thing that begins to hold a candle is Fencer for PvP, but they're melee, and can't hold their own in PvE.
Edit: Sorry if this seems negative, but Riflemen are really in no place to complain.
Message Edited by AvaLance on 06-24-2004 10:43 PM
Nadiel
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:14 am
#78
pikeman and swordsman both have only 75 speed at master. TKM and fencer cap at master. i have a swordsman with a 1.8 speed scythe and i can't even cap that at master. i dont think any professions should be nerfed. fencer and rifleman seem to supass many other professions and they work well i think. they should bring up other professions to a higher lvl and just make certain mobs not soloable somehow. make krayts brethe fire or 100% int resists on elders.