Rifleman Archive
Thread: Beating Feign Death
Message Edited by Berardi on 09-29-2004 07:31 PM
Slarus wrote:
Try and shoot a pitols accuratly from 10 yards, that's 30 ft see how often you hit a man sized object. Movies make it look so easy dont they?
Done it. So have millions of other people.
That suddenly got a lot more detailed than what you started with...
Slarus wrote:
Slarus wrote:
Try and shoot a pitols accuratly from 10 yards, that's 30 ft see how often you hit a man sized object. Movies make it look so easy dont they?
Done it. So have millions of other people.
Even the great gunfights of the wild west had a tendency to happen within 20 yards, I wasnt talking about standing at a firing range, I am talking the real deal, even pistols have a kick and they are highly inaccurate trying to shoot a moving target while moving with a pistol at 30 yards, you hit it will be more luck then skill, and millions havent done it, sorry your thinking of a shooting range which is lab conditions for shooting, I qualed marksman in the military but would dread the idea of haveing to hit a target with a .45 at 30 yards under not so ideal conditions as a shoot range.
Let's not make a big deal out of a game that requires 0 skill as opposed to real life, ok? Message Edited by XaverriJade7 on 09-30-2004 03:00 AM
Berardi wrote:
How did you win the battle did you DB him? Nope you couldnt, he forced a stalemate, and destroying his vehicle and this blackening is childish. That Jedi did not consent to you PvPing him, he was forced into it by the Devs lack of vision. Part of the timeline too. Its not lack of vision, its one of the few bits of decent content this game has. The Jedi consented to PvP the day the person decided they wanted to become a Jedi.
You seem to think that only death is the end game to this, clearly you never played chess. Chess= death. A stalemate is an acknowledgement that to do anything else will lead to a death so the loser concedes. Chess is the most brutal game in the world.
Why should someone who cant win, and unless they have something to save them (House, water or FD) they have to die? You're talking about padawan and lower. What happens when they finish their template and can wipe the floor with 5 MBH? You're whining.
What do YOU as the BH lose for just accepting the stalemate? some time, some money, now what does that nppb Jedi lose 2k XP PER SKILL POINT in Jedi skills, Jedi XP is gained about the same rate as combat XP and it takes more points per skill to level up, so your looking at 10 times the work for a skill box compared to you, plus losing 30k+200k if cloning+2k per skill point. You're going way off topic here. This is a Jedi whine you're making not a valid arguement pro or con vs. FD.
Say that he should have let you kill him if the BHs lost XP like Jedi do on Jedi hunts, I bet you'd sing a different tune alright. If MBH was on par with a master defender/ master lightsaber I bet every BH would be willing to risk the exp.
The only motivation for fighting a weak Jedi is preying on those weaker then you, period, your a bully, and destroying armor and vehicles proves it, you can get your easy kill so you abuse what you can, rather the taking it like a man, and acknowleding you have been stalemated you resort to terrorism and schoolyard bulling. whine whine whine, did you get beat up by bullies? Take what like a man? The fact that a Jedi is using a non-Jedi skill to run away from a BH until he's powerful enough to destroy any BH later on? Where's this logic coming from?
I can complete my mission, how unbelieveably lame excuse to ruin an expensive vehicle. I would really love to see XP penalties for DB on BH on Jedi missions (I know it wont happen but it's nice to think about), get a life try and do something fun and not abuse others trying to have fun, take your lightsaber envy and get a life, that post made me ill. Lightsaber envy? Hahahahahahaha This has to do with FD how?
Padawan Jedi in your opinion should have no way to deal with clearly supior opponents, and you want to nerf one of the professions that needs a nerf less then almost any other. Well they can try. I mean after all their opponents ARE superior atm. But later on then what?
Tale on a full template Jedi Knight without buffs and if you lose drop a skill, then tell us all how unfair it is to force a stalemate on a forced PvP fight, you do that then I'll respect it if you still feel FD is a cheat, you wont because your not stupid. Huh? MBH can't take on a full template Jedi Knight WITH buffs. What are you smoking man. They have to dabble in melee professions for a chance. Heck even master rifleman is no good.
Putting FD in the Master slot only stops Jedi, BS! it makes struggling smugglers almost impossible to have fun and XP unless they have other combat professions backing them up. An weaponsmith, armorsmith, smuggler would have a tough time XPing the combat portion of smuggler without FD and you want to take that away so you can hand Jedi over 200k in XP loses, because you dont feel like your having fun without forcing others to participate in your delight, how f**king petty. No, its that FD is a pretty powerful skill to have at such a low level box. Its been used in a number of exploits in the past as well by those not willing to learn anything about smuggler. The combat part is too easy, FD isn't needed to complete it.
You and all the others can hate FD all you want, but nerfing it is not the answer, changing when you get it in smuggler is not the answer, the answer is to make Jedi PvE like everyone else who pays $15 per month, and if a Jedi wears robes, equips a lightsaber in public they become OVERT to EVERYONE, then every single Jedi hater can attack at once, but if they dont equip their gear in public, why should you care and how would you know they are there? This is not just about Jedi. There are plenty of templates out there that use this ability to rob an opponent of their well deserved victory or exploit base defenses. Heck a BH can use FD and avoid a Jedi killing them in order to retain the tef and try later.
You wouldnt. A city wide gang bang for being a stupid Jedi will discourage them much better then this 1 on 1 crap and it gives all you Jedi haters easy targets. whine whine whine whine. Go post on the Jedi or Bounty Hunter boards plz. FD sucks whether you're a Jedi or not. Why the heck are Jedi even allowed to use non-Jedi skills like this?
Seeing Jedi is the issue not killing them, Jedi exsist they are in hiding, so if they hide reward em, if they dont gang bang em in town square and good job to all who wiped the idiot, but that Jedi in the middle of BFE did not ask you to come out there and take his XP and/or eqipment, so dont complain, you lost nothing anywhere near what he did, even if you LOST you would not have lost anything near what he did, it is unfair unbalanced and you know it.
Shut up Bro!!!! If you go Jedi you get hunted. Nothing wrong with that, so I guess your wrong, he did consent to PvP.
That is the worse argument I have ever seen here. Totally agree. A full Jedi template is powerful. There are penalties for being this powerful. There are also reprecussions for choosing this path. BH are just slowing the inevitable...a server packed full of Jedi.
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Tyyylowyspetily wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
100 feet isn't very far...
lol. Great start
Granted. But the placementof a subjective value on a absolute without placing that absolute into a context drives me nuts.Even allowing for this, you are correct, that was not a pleasant opening statement, and I apologize. 30 yards is a respectabledistance to pull off a head shot 1 time every second from astanding position. One headshot wouldbe enough I think. In our world, it generally is more than enough, but then, this is SWG. Let's put aside the issue of lethality for a moment, and consider a "head sized target".I would say once per second while shooting over your shoulder that's the animation, not how anyone with a brain would actually do it
Getting to this one in a moment.at a target behind you from the same distanceis a feat for which you should be immortalized in bronze, and to do the same while running, well, we're not worthy. /bow4 .... this makes no sense to me, but I'm guessing it doesn't really have a point. Each of these items places that "100 ft. into a context.Not a context which favors the statement that 100 ft isn't far, but a definate context.wait, did you say the target is moving too, and both of you at a full run? I don'tknow where I 'said' that, but itwouldn't be hard to do. Especially since firing several times per second is perfectly realistic.Alright. Let me refresh your memory. Your post (the one to which I responded) was made in response to a post which very specifically mentions firing on a moving target, while running- to which you replied- "100 feet isn't very far". The next part of this is plain silly. "It wouldn't be hard to do". Ever tried firing a rifle one handed? I didn't find it easy in the least. A person "with a brain in their heads" wouldn't try what you would call "not hard to do" at all. They might run a small distance, stop, and fire a shot after adressing the target.Firing at a running target, while you yourself are on the move, running away from that target, is anything but easy. I would call hitting that 100 ft distant target under those circumstances unlikely. I would call hitting that target consistantly within the bounds of possibilty, though not probability, if I were feeling generous. Next up, is this notion of firing several times per second. Burst fire can be used to mitigate some, though not all, of the the accuracy lost while moving. The main use of automatic fire however, is supression.This is not to say that an automatic weapon on the proper mounts can't be accurate. However, you're not going to hit much while running and firing on full auto. Well, actually, you'll hit plenty, afterall, each round gets stopped by something sooner or later- just not what youwere hoping to hit.100%, completely as realistic as dropping down in front of an enemy, and pretending to die. This is exactly why real world comparisons have no place here. I never said real world comparisons should be made- only that 100 feet is not that great a distance when shooting at something in real life. Again, no context given. This is a practice which can imply validity toflawed arguments, which is why it drives me nuts. Just a few variables to chew on:size of the target, position of the target, field of view, lighting, the weapon involved, motion of the target, motion of the shooter, weather conditions, stress level. There are more, but I think that's enough to illustrate the point. 100 ft, is point blank under ideal conditions.Conditions, however, are not always ideal.I don't think they should make the game's combat system the same as reality, but at least basing it off of such would be nice. Taking several shots to kill someone is much more believeable than hundreds and not as unbalancing as one. So anyone who advocates consistent one-shot kills is just as wrong as anyone supporting the current system. Here, we are in 100% complete agreement.I can't stand watching people shrug off arocket to the head as they might shrug offa mosquito bite, then run up and beat an armored target to death with a night stick.
The only points I wanted to make were these: The range in this game is ridiculous and hitting something in real life is far easier than hitting something in this game can be. The range is limited by technical issues, and it is what it is. /shrug. The concept of accuracy is a game mechanic and balance issue, and should not be tied in any way to reality.
There is really no point in arguing though because no matter what they do with the combat system, it will never require real skill, but only character skills and preparation. Here's at least hoping that this is incorrect. Skill can play a part now. I'd like to see that part expanded upon.
Message Edited by XaverriJade7 on 09-29-2004 08:28 PM
Slarus wrote:EdahFreecloudI suppose im not understanding the idea of it being a grief. If theres no way to get him out of it, what are we supposed to do? Ill explain the reason for the question in the first place:I am A BH, I hunt jedi. My last mark still had FD from his smuggler tree. Hes a new jedi, but if you get on the terms you are fair game(topic for the BH forum if you wanna flame me for hunting n00b jedi) I track this guy for an hour or so, finally make my move and he FD's on me after i am about to DB and finish my mission. Now by him doing this I can't complete my mission even tho I have clearly won the battle, now im the griefer for waiting him out and continuing to attack him?? It seems to me that hes the one griefing me...I told the guy I didnt want to make this a big thing and I would let his doc rez him if he would just take the DB like a man...but of course he didnt, he proceeded to call me names and tell me Im a noob b/c I cant kill him. He did make one mistake tho..he left his AV-21 out before he FD'd and couldnt store it. I told him I would not destroy it if he came out of FD and let me finish my mission..well he didnt and the AV-21 had to die.How did you win the battle did you DB him? Nope you couldnt, he forced a stalemate, and destroying his vehicle and this blackening is childish. That Jedi did not consent to you PvPing him, he was forced into it by the Devs lack of vision.You seem to think that only death is the end game to this, clearly you never played chess.Why should someone who cant win, and unless they have something to save them (House, water or FD) they have to die?What do YOU as the BH lose for just accepting the stalemate? some time, some money, now what does that nppb Jedi lose 2k XP PER SKILL POINT in Jedi skills, Jedi XP is gained about the same rate as combat XP and it takes more points per skill to level up, so your looking at 10 times the work for a skill box compared to you, plus losing 30k+200k if cloning+2k per skill point.Say that he should have let you kill him if the BHs lost XP like Jedi do on Jedi hunts, I bet you'd sing a different tune alright.The only motivation for fighting a weak Jedi is preying on those weaker then you, period, your a bully, and destroying armor and vehicles proves it, you can get your easy kill so you abuse what you can, rather the taking it like a man, and acknowleding you have been stalemated you resort to terrorism and schoolyard bulling.I can complete my mission, how unbelieveably lame excuse to ruin an expensive vehicle. I would really love to see XP penalties for DB on BH on Jedi missions (I know it wont happen but it's nice to think about), get a life try and do something fun and not abuse others trying to have fun, take your lightsaber envy and get a life, that post made me ill.Padawan Jedi in your opinion should have no way to deal with clearly supior opponents, and you want to nerf one of the professions that needs a nerf less then almost any other.Tale on a full template Jedi Knight without buffs and if you lose drop a skill, then tell us all how unfair it is to force a stalemate on a forced PvP fight, you do that then I'll respect it if you still feel FD is a cheat, you wont because your not stupid.Putting FD in the Master slot only stops Jedi, BS! it makes struggling smugglers almost impossible to have fun and XP unless they have other combat professions backing them up. An weaponsmith, armorsmith, smuggler would have a tough time XPing the combat portion of smuggler without FD and you want to take that away so you can hand Jedi over 200k in XP loses, because you dont feel like your having fun without forcing others to participate in your delight, how f**king petty.You and all the others can hate FD all you want, but nerfing it is not the answer, changing when you get it in smuggler is not the answer, the answer is to make Jedi PvE like everyone else who pays $15 per month, and if a Jedi wears robes, equips a lightsaber in public they become OVERT to EVERYONE, then every single Jedi hater can attack at once, but if they dont equip their gear in public, why should you care and how would you know they are there?You wouldnt. A city wide gang bang for being a stupid Jedi will discourage them much better then this 1 on 1 crap and it gives all you Jedi haters easy targets.Seeing Jedi is the issue not killing them, Jedi exsist they are in hiding, so if they hide reward em, if they dont gang bang em in town square and good job to all who wiped the idiot, but that Jedi in the middle of BFE did not ask you to come out there and take his XP and/or eqipment, so dont complain, you lost nothing anywhere near what he did, even if you LOST you would not have lost anything near what he did, it is unfair unbalanced and you know
it.
This jedi being forced into pvp thing has been discussed. They are given a second slot aren't they. and by playing the jedi they are agreeing that they will fight Bh's.
CrashNgoBoom wrote:
Alright. Let me refresh your memory. Your post (the one to which I responded) was made in response to a post which very specifically mentions firing on a moving target, while running- to which you replied- "100 feet isn't very far". The next part of this is plain silly. "It wouldn't be hard to do". Ever tried firing a rifle one handed?I didn't find it easy in the least. I have, it isn't that hard, especially if you are talking about the M16 or M4 that you used to qualify as a marksman which is the lowest qual thereis without failing completely. A person "with a brain in their heads" wouldn't try what you would call "not hard to do" at all. They might run a small distance, stop, and fire a shot after adressing the target.Firing at a running target, while you yourself are on the move, running away from that target, is anything but easy. Maybe so,but it's do-able without stopping. That game takes this into account by dropping your accuracy while moving too. I would call hitting that 100 ft distant target under those circumstances unlikely. Not that unlikely, 100ft is only 30m....alot closer then anything I've had to shoot at with a rifle.I would call hitting that target consistantly within the bounds of possibilty, though not probability, if I were feeling generous. Next up, is this notion of firing several times per second. Burst fire can be used to mitigate some, though not all, of the the accuracy lost while moving. The main use of automatic fire however, is supression. True story!This is not to say that an automatic weapon on the proper mounts can't be accurate. However, you're not going to hit much while running and firing on full auto. You would if your enemy was charging at you with a stick or hammer. It is way easy to mowsomeonesomething down while firing on the moveif you are even worth being behind that weapon.[edited] Watch what happens to everyone who decides to chargeat the automatic weapons.Well, actually, you'll hit plenty, afterall, each round gets stopped by something sooner or later- just not what youwere hoping to hit.
I actually never mentioned my qualification level during my time in service. That was another gentleman, who actually dates himself a bit (sorry man, butit does :smileyhappyby noting that the .45 was a weapon he qualified with. That particular arm had already left service when I enlisted. I too qualified marksman, though in my career field that sort of thing was less important than understanding how radio energy works. My test day? I struck4/5 at 350m, 5/5 at 300m, 5/5 at 250m, 5/5 at 200m, 5/5 at 150m, 5/5 at 100m, 5/5 at 50mand almost failed my test, when I was laughing at a target 25m away as being "unmissable" and failed to control breathing properly,striking only 2/5 on an "unmissable target". A true story for you.I will say though, that since those days, I've fired enough lead down range to call "BS" on anyone that suggests, or implies, that one handed rifle fire is accurate or even in many cases advisable. Try it with a .308, a .30-06, a 30-30, or a .375 H&H magnuminstead of that .223 cal. I don't think you'll make it far down that list before screaming "uncle". That's if one of those rifles doesn't recoil and knock your teeth out while trying this. A rifle fired with one hand,becomes an awkward pistol, at best.
If it is so easy to strike a moving target while on the move, why is the two man team the basis for all squad level tactics? Why does one man provide cover as the other moves. Firing "on the move" generally does not amount to firing while at a dead run. The game does lower accuracy somewhat when moving, though not nearly enough.
On a final note, let's keep current real world hot spots out of these forums.The folks with friends/ relatives/ loved ones in theater now don't need to be reminded of the dangers those they care for face. No matter where you stand on any of these other points, I think that's one that should be adhered to.
Tyyylowyspetily wrote:
I will say though, that since those days, I've fired enough lead down range to call "BS" on anyone that suggests, or implies, that one handed rifle fire is accurate or even in many cases advisable. Try it with a .308, a .30-06, a 30-30, or a .375 H&H magnuminstead of that .223 cal. I don't think you'll make it far down that list before screaming "uncle". That's if one of those rifles doesn't recoil and knock your teeth out while trying this. A rifle fired with one hand,becomes an awkward pistol, at best.
CohenMacBain wrote:
Well, this is a first - a post by Sotaudi that I don't agree with (and that's putting it mildly). I can only assume you have a Jedi, and probably a new one, because I can't understand why else you would make these comments
Nope. I do not have a Jedi, and I have no intention of getting one. I am of the opinion that Jedi do not belong in this time frame and that the game is being devistated by the fact that they keep making it easier to become one. I am grinding out FS skills to be able to compete as a rifleman because anyone with out them will not be able to compete.I would prefer that there be no force sensitivy in the game at all.
At the same time, I am also of the opinion that the BH profession is a magnet for people who want to beat other players whether those players want to compete with them or not. That does not mean every BH is like that, but the fact that much time has been spent by BH trying to figure out how to get player bounties in the game, not just on Jedi, is proof enough of that. So you will forgive me if I am a bit hard on the BH profession here.
Mycomments are in yellow - I hope you don't view this as a flame, and I've tried to keep things relatively unemotional
No Flame assumed.
Sotaudi wrote:
The bottom line is he outfoxed you.
"Outfoxing" someone would imply a situational battle of wits. Feign Death is a "No XP loss" button that can be hit at any time, and completely invaildates the entire 'checks and balances' system of "You do Jedi stuff, you go on the terms and risk XP loss".
No...it is not a "get out of jail free" card, really.I have seen asmugglerusing FDget killed when the attacker had patience. And this was right outside the Coronet cantina. I the case of which I speak, the Smuggler used FD three or four times to get out of being killed, and his attacker beat up on him for a while, then went off a ways and waited for him to get up, then came back. Eventually, he was able to catch him and kill him before he could FD again.
And this is why I disagree that blackbarring a FD player is griefing. It is the only tactic to actually win against FD. Some have said that it is useless to do it because it is so easy to heal wounds. This may be true, but they have to get to where they can heal. If I blackbar their mind to the point they have less than the amount of mind I can take away from them with one shot headshot, then all it takes is that one second of up time for me to get off one more shot and incap them before they FD. If I blackbar the rest of their stats to where they do not have enough pool points to FD, they cannot stop me from killing them. Thus, knowing those two facts, I can, in fact, beat FD if I am patient enough to outplay them.
Fight them, when they FD, continue hitting them with bleeds and high wound chance weapons to black bar them. When you think you have them to a point they cannot survive one more shot, leave and give them time toget up then come back and one shot them.Havingsomeone who can keep an eye on themto let you know when they get up helps. If they FD on you again,rinse and repeat as often is as necessary. Will it work every time? No. But then nothing works every time.
Outfoxed? Yes. He chose a skill to help him survive. He had the patience to wait it out even if he lost a vehicle in the process. The fact that the one attacking him did not have the patience to do what I described above simply means that he used his skill set more wisely than the attacker, so, yes, outfoxed.
Besides, if he plans to be a full Jedi, he will not be able to afford this skill forever, so it is not like he, or any Jedi, will always be able to FD on you. And if he does keep it, then he will never be an effective Jedi, and in the long run, you have done the job that you feel is so important. The treat of you killing him has forced him to only progress so far in Jedi then stop.
He reconginzed that he would be weak while trying to grind Jedi, thathe loses XP whenhe dies asa Jedi, and that Jedi XP is hard to come by. He also recognized that there are people who prey on the weak and whose profession's only purpose is to profit at another player's expense.
The purpose of BH(as stated in numerous postsfrom our lords and masters) islimiting the Jedi population, which is the only way to make the end-game of PvP fun for people like myself who have no interest in playing a Jedi. Already, large-scale PvP encounters are, more often than not,won by the side with the most Jedi. If they are able to level without fear of XP loss, then pretty soon other professions will be totally redundant.
As stated, I am not arguing that Jedi should be in the game or that their grind should be easier. In my opinion, theonly active Jedi at this time were Luke (light side)and Vader (dark side). Obi Wan, Yoda, and Palpatine were all in the background. Therefore, the presence of even one more active light or darkside Jedi is, in my opinion, a problem.
However, given that, the fact that they are in the game is a fact. It is also a fact that the game does not start them off as if they are a new character with no skills whatsoever any more. Thus, they have the right to pick and choose whatever skills they deem necessary to keep them alive until they are forced to drop those skills to advance in Jedi.
Since the Jedi getsno bonus from killing BHs that attack them and can be forced into PvP involuntarily, he wisely chose to retain skills that would keep you from costing him XP. I am sorry, but I feel no sympathy for you whatsoever.
No Jedi can be forced into PvP involuntarily. If you choose to behave in a manner which will get you on the BH terminals, then you are SUPPOSED to be hunted down, and if the BH is able to take you down, you are SUPPOSED to lose XP. That's the whole damn point of the entire system.
Thatis not true. Jedi areending upon the terminals for three weeks even when they are as far out in the boonies as is humanly possible, even when they do not equip a lightsaber or robes unless they are far from view, and they stay on the terminals for three weeks even if they did nothing to deserve to be there.
Even so, I dispute the idea that just because they want to be a Jedi and accept the fact that BHs will be able to hunt them means that they are being not forced into PvP. Who said everyone who bought this game and wanted to be a Jedi character wants to PvP? They may have to accept that fact, but it is a bit arrogant to say that just because the system is setup that way that this makes it voluntary. There are alot of things in life I do not want, but I have to put up with.
And please! "Take his DB like a man"????? This is about as valid an argument as a melee character complaining that a ranged character is kiting him and won't "stand and fight like a man." What you need to do is accept that you got outfoxed and that you need to come up with a way to beat him or the patience to wait him out. That is what a man would do, not whine that he could not collect a reward he had not yet earned.
With respect to the text in red, unless the BH is a Dev, there is NO WAY to beat Feign Death, so that statement is just absurd. Might as well say that if you don't like having no resists to lightsabers, you should just 'be a man' and magically force them to appear on your armour. As far as I can see, the BH in this situation did exactly what you suggested, as far as is possible within the game mechanics. He came up with some leverage (threatening the AV21) that might get the Jedi to come out of FD. The Jedi accepted that his XP was more valuable to him than the vehicle, so the BH was left with no real option other than to make good on his threat, and blow it away.
First, I have already dealt with the issue of beating FD. It can be done.
Second, if this were real life where a dark jedi training meant that good people would die (or that light jedi training would mean that the empire would fall), you may have a point. But this is a game. People are paying good money to have fun. Nobody really dies, but real people spend hours of real time trying to earn ingame cash to afford such things or real time grinding out XP. While you are right, such a target makes a great barganing chip, you are not destroying a cartoon vehicle owned by a cartoon NPC. Destroying the vehicle or forcing them to regrind hours upon hours of XP because you killed them affects real people's lives. I just do not see it as honorable.
I think feign death is a skill that needs to be changed. They should appear to be dead and unattackable, but there should be a way to break it. But as long as it is a skillin the game, it is a valid tactic and the fact that he recongized the value of this skill to a low-level Jedi is an indication that he chose his skills wisely.
As long as they are attackable, and as long as they are willing to use that skill to keep from being DBed, it is only fair that the penalty for using it would be damaged armor and blackbars. So I do not consider that griefing. But I do consider destroying a vehicle as a childish act, especially one that is as expensive as the AV-21. The only justification for destroyinga vehicle is if you do so to keep someone from getting away.
Nothing more to add, other than that blackbars are no punishment at all, and I thought Jedi weren't wearing armour these days anyway? Could be wrong about that last, though. Oh, and ANY vehicle that's attackable should be destroyed - if you weren't supposed to blow 'em, they wouldn't be red. In a GCW context, costing the opposing faction credits is not only a viable tactic, it's a duty.
Blackbars are annoying, but as I stated, it is just not the annoyance factor. Done right, they are the only way to beat FD. No, you are not mistaken. Jedi cannot use armor as a Jedi, and they have taken away the ability to quickly switch in and out of it, so Jedi usually will not be hurt by armor decay. But all the better since there is no armor to reduce the blackbar damage you are doing
And, as I said, if this were real war, you would be absolutely correct. Enemy vehicles should be destroyed in a real war. But this ain't real war. Likewise, the situation being described was not a faction to faction thing, but rather an assassain taking money to go out and kill someone who never did them or their friends or family any harm. Thus, I find it hard to see killing his vehicle as anything more than a matter of revenge for keeping the BH from profiting off of the Jedi's misery. Not quite as honorable as destroying an enemy tank at the risk of your own life to save your fellow soldiers, is it?
Sotaudi wrote:
Far too much stuff to carry on quoting the wholepost
I think we're probably in agreement on much of this, and certainly I'd agree that many BHs (but by no means all) do take the profession as a means of griefing people, and get their kicks from spoiling others' gameplay.
I'll just respond to a couple of points, where I really, strongly believe you are mistaken. Your comments in yellow this time, just to be confusing
No...it is not a "get out of jail free" card, really.I have seen asmugglerusing FDget killed when the attacker had patience. And this was right outside the Coronet cantina. I the case of which I speak, the Smuggler used FD three or four times to get out of being killed, and his attacker beat up on him for a while, then went off a ways and waited for him to get up, then came back. Eventually, he was able to catch him and kill him before he could FD again.
Yes, it is a get out of jail free card.You didn't see a smuggler using FD get killed. You saw a smuggler who voluntarily STOPPED using FD get killed. There is no 'outfoxing' here. I have seen several smugglers state that when they FD, they'll just go and do something else for a while, and check back every now and then to see if the attacker is still there. They may even just tab out and let their connection time out. You can't seriously be suggesting that it's reasonable to expect a BH to wait ATKin one spot for hours (potentially) to collect one bounty? And here I quote:
But this is a game. People are paying good money to have fun. Nobody really dies, but real people spend hours of real time trying to earn ingame cash to afford such things or real time grinding out XP. While you are right, such a target makes a great barganing chip, you are not destroying a cartoon vehicle owned by a cartoon NPC. Destroying the vehicle or forcing them to regrind hours upon hours of XP because you killed them affects real people's lives.
This is no different to 'forcing' the BH to wait for hours in one spot to collect the bounty. At the end of the day, nobody is 'forced' to play this game, and the Jedi player knows that they'll be hunted. If they don't want to accept that, well guess what, they don't earn the right to massacre multiple non-FS toons at will by reaching the higher levels. To be honest, I never think the "affects real people's lives" argument is valid, because the logical conclusion is that you should never PvP, and should CERTAINLY never try to take down a base in the GCW.After all, real people spent real time grinding for that base, you can't just take it away from them! I reiterate my statement, that if Jedi weren't supposed to lose XP if a BH takes them down, then the system wouldn't work the way it does. A shaky proposition, of course - suggesting that everything in this game works the way it should
On a related (but slightly more bitter) point, I am also paying good money to have fun, and asa pure ranged character, that fun is pretty darn short-lived if I run into a high-level Jedi of the opposing faction. I don't claim that the Jedi is griefing me just by existing, but it sure feels that way when you spend ages getting buffs, ent buffs, eat your food/drink, travel to an opposition base, and then get wiped out in ten seconds by a Jedi that you can't realistically damage 
In any case, there's nothing to be done about it. I can't think of a way where FD could be restricted in these circumstances, without nerfing smuggler. I like sliced things, so I certainly wouldn't want to do that