Rifleman Archive

That is true that an AP0 weapon would do as much damage as an AP3 weapon vs. AR0 targets (assuming the AP0 weapon had as much damage as the AP3 weapon, which is rare). But how many higher end mobs have you seen with AR0?

You are correct about most weapons being about the same effectivenessin pvp (due to the lack of PC medium and heavy armor), but isn't that what we call balance, whereas the fight comes down to the players skills and tactics?

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JayBurns wrote:

That is true that an AP0 weapon would do as much damage as an AP3 weapon vs. AR0 targets (assuming the AP0 weapon had as much damage as the AP3 weapon, which is rare). But how many higher end mobs have you seen with AR0?

Not many. Nor do you find many high end MOBs with heavy armor. Well at least you didn't until recently. Most are AR1 or AR2. But does it make any sense that a weapon like the T21 that has been offically described as being able to easily penetrate Stromtrooper armor, actually be no better than any other AP1 or AP2 weapon? What would be the difference between a Laser Rifle and the T21? Same damage type while the accuracy mods are similar as is the damage. Going this route makes a number of weapons pointless.

You are correct about most weapons being about the same effectivenessin pvp (due to the lack of PC medium and heavy armor), but isn't that what we call balance, whereas the fight comes down to the players skills and tactics?

You seem to forget that most of the combat is NOT PvP. It's PvE. Balance is not every weapon doing the same damage. That kind of balance is not possible in this game because we don't have classes. We have professions we can pick and choose abilities from.

Nor is PvP usually about tactics or skills. It about either using DoT weapons, CM disease/poison, mind pool hits, or landing the first KD/Dizzy.

Balance in this game is about having roles that a profession works well as. One profession may have high damage output, another may have a defensive set up, while a third is based around using combat multipliers (AoE attacks, status effect changes).

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LLJK_Griz wrote:

Here's the weaponsmith thread on the AP system, with data from two correspondents and Volsted: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=24479

In short, PVP and PVE use different systems, this is not officially documented anywhere, it makes no sense, and the devs think it's working in a way which it is obviously not.

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PvP and PvE use the same system. The issue is that players are considered vulnerable to all damage types. At least they are when not wearing armor.

It appears that the Devs had little to no idea of how their combat system was acutally working. Which is caused a great deal of confusion with the players. Devs are saying one way while the players were observing something completely different.

Here is the thread that was on the Riflemen boards about this.

Kalderan isreviewing AP

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Waste93 wrote:

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JayBurns wrote:

I'm not saying everyone should get AP2/3, I'm saying the damage enhancement tied to those few weapons shouldn'texist at all. All that should be happening is that if AP>AR, there is no penalty and the weapon will inflict damage as normal. If it's too hard to implement the increased damage on armor when AP>AR without adding that extra damage to the target, then simply take it out of the game.

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No. If AP does not add damage but only increases weapon armor decay it's useless for anything but PvP.

What you will have is all weapons doing almost the same damage. AP won't be relevant except for causing armor decay in PvP. So there is no real difference between professions. Just graphics and damage types.

But it would mean having some pistols with AP0 being just as effective as a T21 in PvE. Which makes no sense.

There was a large analyses of what would happen to various weapons if this system was implemented. The post was late last year on this board. You can search for it if you want. But it shows how doing this kind of system is nothing more than a huge nerf to all AP weapons while a major boost to AP0 weapons.

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Here's the weaponsmith thread on the AP system, with data from two correspondents and Volsted: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=24479

In short, PVP and PVE use different systems, this is not officially documented anywhere, it makes no sense, and the devs think it's working in a way which it is obviously not.

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XaverriJade7 wrote:

Updated the original message to the most recent version of the question so no one has to swim around trying to find it.

More feedback/comments/criticisms are welcome.

Also, from what little info the FanFest has brought us, I'd say it seems the Devs are looking to restrict us to more of a support class. This may or may not be true, but I thought it would be wise to ask you guys if you felt we should try to work on getting more info concerningthis 'support role' in addition to the question already stated. Or would it be better to wait for now and take care of just one thing at a time? Personally, the idea of waiting kills me, but seems to be the way to go at this point- especially due to lack of hard facts at this time. Please comment on this as well

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JerikArca wrote:

If riflemen are to become standard infantry then what are the devs going to do with Carbineers.Status effect specialists.I've always beleived the riflemen to be a high AP, heavy damaging, slow firing profession. Believing somethingisn't enough to make it right.Carbineers are medium AP, medium dmg, medium speed, If you only think in linear terms, yes. and your pistols are light AP, light dmg, and VERY fast.What's faster in real life? Pistols would be the slowest. Don't limit yourself to conventional thinking in this game.The only thing that the devs need to balance is the speed of each ranged class, and HAM costs. There's a lot more than that to fix before we're done balancing the combat system.

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Aexum wrote:

I have been up and down the Rifleman tree twice now, It is my favorite class and I was dissappointed with it's development but I am back. I like the idea of a primary sniper and secondary heavy weaponist. To make the sniper aspect successful and viable we need ultra long range and ultra high damage (one shot one kill) the trade off to this should be time and preparation. This means the sniper aspect is not an action oriented role; we hide, we prepare, we wait, we aim, aim some more, we shoot and we kill. I think this could be simulated with a mechanic that made the longer you aim immobilized, the more effective (accuracy and damage) your shot would be but we need more range. The heavy gunner role is our action role that allows us to be heavy fire support to the main line assualt team of carbineers I think this is how the prof is currently designed.

my 2 cents,

Aexum

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First, let me say that your two cents is certainly welcome. And let me further say that your idea of balance -- one shot kill kind of damage in exchange for prep time -- is certainly reasonable. However, I really wish people would get over the idea that this and long range snipingis even a possibility.

They will never give any class a one-shot kill capability. As I have said many times, look how much people scream now when we can kill them and they can see it coming and it takes multiple shots to kill them. Imagine the outcry if people start dying when one second they have a full HAM bar and the next second they have nothing but white? It will never happen.

Neither will they give us long range. Increasing the combat range by a mere 11m would require keeping each client and the AI on Mobs and NPCs updated about the status of all objects in an area that is more than 37% larger. Imagine going into a laggy city like Coronet if the system had to keep you updated with 37% more objects! And 11 more meters is still insignificant when it comes to sniping ranges.

They will never give us real sniping ranges, never take us off radar, or give us a one-shot kill capability. It is nice to dream, but this is one dream that will never happen.