Rifleman Archive
Thread: Speed Cap, Lack Of Resources, Range, Ham Costs
feck wrote:
Lets just say they add a 3 second speed cap to Rifleman, and we get a big damage boost to compensate. Imagine what our bleeds are going to do. heh
Why would they do that? Your damage per second is already 3x higher then anyone else...what gives riflemen the right to shoot for more damage per second when you all spend the same skill points? In other words, why bother being a pistoleer or carbineer when a riflemen consistantly outdamages them?
Xytroncore wrote:
Nitra wrote:
and if they even hint at capping our speed at master thenpushfor a big damage bonus to compensate.
**edit**? Uh you do know that riflemen already one shot kill 90% of the time in PvP right? You want the ability to one shot kill those with buffs too? lol hell, why not make advanced strafe an area attack that can kill groups of AT-STs and lay waste to entire towns while your at it...jeez, you guys don't even know how overpowered of a ranged proffession you are.
maybe with an uber prenerf or legendary t21... but not many of those exist these days... and to say one rifleman can lay waste to a city by himself, is like saying a tkm can knock me down and dizzy me from 70m away. please, learn the profession before you troll.
I'm pretty new to SWG, but I'm a long time veteran of a Anarchy Online, where we had our own raging rifle debates.
Speed caps are bad. It's an artificial limitation that penalizes you, even though you have the skills. Speed caps absolutely ruined perfectly good weapons and no game has any place for them. There's always a better way. Think about it. Why impose a limit on how fast you can pull a trigger?
A 2 second cap isn't too horrible to be honest, but it's starts us off on a bad trend of nerfs that would continue into other weapons, making the combat system even worse than it currently is now.
Before any nerfs are offered, I'd like to see the broken aspects of each ranged weapon be fixed first, which I guess is what's being addressed.
Again, I'm still a bit of a n00b, so please correct me if I'm mistaken here, but I see aproblem for rifles in pve. If rifle specials typically aim for the mind pool and you're in a team of pistol users that typically aim for the health pool, when a mob's health goes to 0, what if anything did the rifleman contribute to that mob dying?
IMHO, each type of weapon should have different specials that target each of the three pools. Otherwise, if you have a team consisting of a pistol user, a carbine user and a rifle user, you're attacking all three pools at once instead ofone pool in particular and each of the three teammates would have been better off soloing.
I could honestly live with a very slight damage nerf, maybe a larger penalty for point blank attacking, but speed nerfs are a bit silly. By artificially slowing your rate of fire, you give an opponent time to get up close to you, which negates any advantage to using a rifle at all. To be honest, a more fair nerf would be to remove the evades bonuses in the rifleman line and put them in carbineer or pistoleer. I'll explain why in a sec.
If I'm up against a TKA, my only chance is to put a big dent in him before he can reach me. If he does, I'm as good as dead.
Here's a suggestion: In AO, there was a special attack that did a great deal of damage called "aimed shot". In PVM, aimed shot could only be used while in conceal mode, or "sneak".
If they do go through with a speed nerf, perhaps this might be something that could be implemented to compensate? Maybe require you to first use the "aim" command and then hit "aimed shot" to do a great deal of damage at a penalty of having to wait for the delay of aiming?
By adding in that 2 second delay to aim, it prevents spamming of the attack. Try to spam it in pvp and it gives someone a chance to knock you down and waste you.
SWG drew inspiration HEAVILY from AO in many aspects, so there's alot of correlations I can make. The "rifleman" profession in AO, was called "agent", whose specialties were having a large amount of concealment and doing a buttload of damage with a rifle. Concealed assassinations were his specialty. It makes sense too. A sniper doesn't aim for the leg when assassinating, he slowly takes aim and puts a bullet between your eyes, going for a one or two shot kill. In AO, the downside to being an agent was that if your enemy caught you, you'd get dropped like a sack of bricks. Agents hadpoor hp andbad evades and that's how they were balanced.
And speaking of evades, evades bonuses from one line of weapons should only be given when wielding THAT weapon. As a rifleman, carbineer, pistoleer, etc, one should not be able to train TKA for the evades boost while wielding a gun. That evades boost should only be given when wielding fists. A TKA should not be given a stacked evades bonus for training fencer while wielding fists. I'm off the subject here I know, but TKAs should have a larger evades boost in their OWN line, along with a short term run speed boost, so they won't have to waste additional skill points training fencer.
As for ranged weapons, rifles should be high offense, poor defense. Pistols should be high defense, low offense and carbines should be right in the middle.
And while I'm jabbering my n00b mouth off, definitely add special attacks for each weapon type that can target each of the three pools. It really doesn't make much sense to use a rifle in a team of pistol users as it sits (or as it seems to me). All teammates should be able to target the same HAM pool.
And lastly, the HAM pools themselves should be changed in that you can only be deathblowed or incapped in pvp when your HEALTH pool goes to zero. Lowering the action or mind pool to 0 shouldnt incap or kill you, but interfere with using heals and special attacks.
Look at the "ideal" base stats for a combat profession and you see that the mind pool is smaller than the health pool. I don't have much swg pvp experience, but it would seem that in order for you to balance your pools for pvp and the different HAM attacks, you'd need to set them all at the same levels, giving yourself a disadvantage in pvm and negating the benefit of being able to migrate your stats altogether.
So to sum up my long, drawn out n00b post:
- Don't nerf rifle speed. If anything, nerf the evade bonus, boost the power and increase the close range penalty. Allow riflemen to be the snipers they are and do massive damage from afar, while making them even gimpier close up. Don't balance pvp for duels, it's impossible to do. Instead, think towards mass pvp.
- Don't allow ranged users to train up TKA/Pikeman for evades bonuses, instead put the proper defenses in their own lines.
- Give each weapon a special attack for each of the three HAM pools
- Dear God don't flame me 
- Sorry I got so long winded and off track 
- OMG TEH FOOTNESS.
Xytroncore wrote:
feck wrote:
Lets just say they add a 3 second speed cap to Rifleman, and we get a big damage boost to compensate. Imagine what our bleeds are going to do. heh
Why would they do that? Your damage per second is already 3x higher then anyone else...what gives riflemen the right to shoot for more damage per second when you all spend the same skill points? In other words, why bother being a pistoleer or carbineer when a riflemen consistantly outdamages them?
Xytrons rifleman hate and trolling continues.... What right we have to do more damage? Its part of seperating the different combat classes.
Rifles= high offense/poor defense
Carbine=medium damage/medium defense/ranged Kds
Pistols=low offense/high defense/incredible versatility (close range Kd, potential for lots of stacking)
I'll admit, the defenses we have as riflemen (melee defenses, not ranged; they're good) are too high IMO
Riflemen SHOULD be the kings of long range offense. And they pretty much are, except to some of the pistoleer/Bh/smuggler combos, but hey, they've spent the skill points to be deadly with pistols, so I dont have a problem with that (other than their pin point accuracy with a frickin pistol at 64 meters, when thats the max range of combat)
Devrak wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAH....You are truely not a rifleman and have no clues as to our profession. Why the heck would a person in their right mind "dabble" in the Rifleman profession. LOL. That's the funiest thing I've ever heard.
And if you know anything about what a true novice rifleman feels like, yes I was a Novice, and yes I whined and complained after the devs put in all the past nerfs that hindered our progresses to skill. But I still had my eyes on the ultimate prize of Master level. Now you tell me what is there to look for for all those Novices if they put in a speed cap?
Learn to read. I never said anyone would dabble in Rifleman. We aren't talking just about Rifleman here. We are talking about all professions. If they moved the majority of the benefits to Master they would do so for all the combat classes.
So we aren't just talking about RIfleman. Not many people would dabble in it since it doesn't stack with other professions. But people do dabble in Pistoleer/BH/Smuggler. Or Carbineer/BH.
I know plenty about a novice Rifleman. I'm still one closing in on Master. I've come out against the speed cap as it makes no sense.
I am a Rifleman. But I apparently know how to read also. Try it sometime and don't jump to conclusions.
I am a master rifleman and I PvP a lot. I have a top of the line t21 damage sliced 31%. I use a 32% damage powerup. I have yet to get a one shot kill in PvP. I can get a two shot kill if I am lucky and they both hit the same pool on an unarmored & unbuffed opponent. Usually it is 3-4 shots as long as the target is not buffed and is not too well armored....and is not a wookie. This pretty muchdisqualifiesjust aboutevery seriousPvPer.Cheers! Andgo buy a clue.
Xytroncore wrote:
**edit**? Uh you do know that riflemen already one shot kill 90% of the time in PvP right? You want the ability to one shot kill those with buffs too? lol hell, why not make advanced strafe an area attack that can kill groups of AT-STs and lay waste to entire towns while your at it...jeez, you guys don't even know how overpowered of a ranged proffession you are.
The only time your going to get 90% 1 shot kills would be if the entire Cornet cantina went overt.
I am largely a PvE player. I PvP once in a while to help defend a city or something but that is very very rare, and I am not good at it at all. If they cap the speed, I PvE get totally borked, and that is my main focus. Lets examine a scenario:
Gwee shoots the creature.
Creature aggros and charges Gwee.
Gwee shoots.... Oh no wait, he cant shoot back, they capped the speed at 3 seconds which is all the time in the world for almost any creature in the game to walk right up next to him and tear him a new hole.
If you think this speed cap is a good idea you have obviously not considered PvE AT ALL. Let me say it all in caps so you idiot trolls catch the drift: NOT EVERYONE PVP'S AND THOSE THAT DONT GET ROYALLY SCREWED BY YOUR CONSTANT CRYING AND COMPLAINING FOR NERFS!
that posted before I was done and now I am really irrate! Get bent and go worry about fixing your own profession. There is no reason for you to be here if you are not going to be constructive. All that has been said is: Rifleman is to powerful, wah, wah, wah. Please dev's nerf the Rifleman. Nevermind the fact that I will no longer be able to enjoy the game as I want to play it, because you lame as-s whiners can not mind your own professions. I DONT PVP, AND I USUALLY DONT PARTY SO THIS CAP CRIPPLES ME TOTALLY!
Thanks for trolling
Gwee-Godo
Rifleman/Ranger
Tarquinas
It just gets better and better...speed cap? Lame.The reason why we slice and upgrade and blow horrendous amounts of skill points is to increase the speed of attack to make up for the fact that we can't solo anything of a reasonably high level.
I want to be a big game hunter. But not when I can't even bring down a frikkin' cat half my size with a modded Laser Rifle at 500+ max damage with a headshot. You need multiple headshots. And bleeders for the big game. Forcing a speed cap only makes it that much more difficult for an already difficult profession.
Every profession is good in PvP right now if the person playing the character knows how to counter certain types of defense and understands how to add to skill defenses through item use.
That being said... I have been seriously thinking about taking up rifle for a while now (I played as a sharpshooter and beta and loved it!) I am just concerned that the future combat changes might leave me with an unplayable character in PvP (assuming I don't also have time to master a melee profession.) In PvE though riflewill alwaysbefar superior to pistol which why I have been thinking a lot about taking it up.
Ok lemme just start out by saying I am not an uber player and I do not own in PvP(Although sometimes I imagine I am great). On the flip side I have Mastered the rifle profession(Like the older rifleman I got to deal with creature warp, 6 aggros at a time, and the 2.5 damage mod vs melee) so I am not a dabbler or a struggling rifleman. I am not rich, but I am not poor(usually have 600K-1Mil in bank).
Ok let me start off by saying I consider myself an average player who has mastered the rifle. I have decent funds most of the time(500k-1mil). I have been playing since about a month after launch, so I know some of you newer rifleman missed out on a lot of crappy stuff.
So to you unmastered Rifleman posting in this post. Please do not whine that we are broke. Try shooting a social mob, having them warp 50 meters with 4 of thier friends and proceed to hit you for 2.5 normal damage(Novice swordman got me thru those rough times). That stuff kinda blew. Now granted some stuff needed to be fixed and I am sure it may have been worse at launch, but over all WE as a profession are sitting pretty. Now the difference between complaining to be fixed and complaining because you don't know how to play your class are vast.
To JediGohan...Please stop. I have 900 in my mind pool. I do not run out of HAM that often. Before you can just say things like the mind drain sucks, look at a few things. First off we are not a solo class in our early stages. Believe me I tried and that was when things were still rough. Get a group, you have a high damage output, no reason you need to spam specials for xp. Next lets look at your secondaries (get them mixed up so don't flame me if I am wrong) One reduces your special cost(Focus?), the other your regen rate. Max your special reduce secondary. Get the regen as high as you can. I think mine sit at 600 and 500(wasn't aware of the human max bug so I haven't used it). Next what kind of brain bucket are you using? Ubese has a high mind cost. When your in a group and back 40-50 meters as you should be, there is no reason to wear a helmet. Take it off so your mind is encumbered as little as possible. Pace your specials. Now if committing this many points to mind hurts your other stats...so what. We don't use other secondaries much so the special cost stat can go. As far as regen goes pick up some medic skill if possible. Take some from your Health and action pools. Mine sit at 725 and 700. Little low but buffs are not hard to come by.
Moving onto weapons. My T21 runs 423 max right around 610 i think with a 33% powerup(7.5 speed, bleh). Little expensive but by no means uber. In fact I didn't get this rifle until I mastered. Most of my early rifles were in the pushing 400 with power ups. They run around 40k on my server. Get your self a throw away T21 sliced for speed. Throw a 33% speed/16% mind reduction cost/Max damage on it and have fun. Just so you know your laser rifle is not that good. Mine runs at 670 with power up. Neither of my "prize" rifles are uber, granted they are not junk, but there are much better ones out there. So save some credits, ask around for a good smith and purchase a better weapon.
Accuracy...why are you running around? You should be close to max range like your class is designed. If you are running around you are either soloing(bad) or too close to the mobs. Even in PvP I try to stay on the edge of comat, and if I have a lot of friendlies between me and the enemy I sometimes kneel. Same for your cry of no fair for the bad acc. penalty at close range. Don't be there, sometimes it is unavoidable though...thems the breaks.
To GUTB...you either need a better rifle, better armor, or a group. Don't solo, unless you got it down to a science. As a master I can easily solo a rancor with my T21 and 60% Composite. Big game hunter you will be, but not until you have earned it.
Ok that concludes my ranting on my fellow up and comming rifleman. Now to address some of the issues that the thread is actually about. What really burns me is its hard to say what the skills of some of these people are, that complain about us. I mean are they mastered in thier profession, do they have at least decent PvP equipment, do they even know how to PvP? I mean come to me with some 40% comp thinking your uber and I will put a hole in you and you better pray your buffed. If you are unmastered and have low resists you can count on getting dizzied, Roll in with no helmet and your buddy can pick your brains off the ground. Point is I hate hearing from people that just sound like they suck, because they probably do. If they have never defeated a rifleman then you can be sure they have never bested a Commando.
My rifle has a high speed atm so I know I am not firing at my max rate so I dont know where I sit in terms of my current firing speed vs the cap. I don't want a cap but I can see the reasoning behind it. I do ok in PvP atm but I certainly don't rule the battlefield. Alot depends on equipment and I am willing to bet some of these anti-rifle people have a crappy PvP template and they aren't rolling in the best of gear. SO many factors to consider in this game. So I am undecided atm but I feel the cap will really hurt the average player who doesn't normally have 60%+ comp and 600-700 t21's.
Lack of resources...hmm....I know some servers have it bad, but while I dont mind resources being available, Good spawns should be rare so a good rifle is a special thing.
Nothing wrong with range. I float at the edge of combat when I can so I get best modifiers that I can. As far as those that complain about CM's...the area effect gets added to the max range of the poison, so actually they are within the 64m limit, but it is still an issue that needs to be addressed. Lay off the TKM hitting you at 20 meters. Those hits are from a different brawler proffesion, that the TKM picked up.
HAM costs...another non issue....When I use a special I have it macro'd so my helmet comes off, switch to laser rifle, fire special, rearm t21 and helmet. We are a good class now, but to complain about things that can be worked around does make it seems like we are aiming to be a uber class. I am happy with the way we are sitting now and I have no complaints.
Anyways...gettin tired...rambling....
Murkin Foes
Chilastra