Rifleman Archive

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Ackehece wrote:

I choose A

Now what I propose might be pretty radical so here goes some of my thoughts (not all are needed but a good selection needs to be presented)

1. increase the short range (<35m) accuracy penalty to 50-75% of our accuracy


2. decrease the effect of arms on rifleman and increase the effect on pistoleers and carbineers


3. public information about the longer ranged pistols and carbines (both have 65m weapons)


4. make mezs and roots only apply from pistols and AOE's only from automatic weapons


5. increase SAC costs on rifles for non rifle attacks (or even if need be rifle attacks)


6. ???

Yours Truely (and slightly mad)

Ackehece

Message Edited by Ackehece on 06-20-2005 07:24 PM

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XwingRouge is right...the devs have flip flopped in how they respond to changes needed. Pre CU changes implemented were very slow in coming and often did very little to affect the game. Post CU, because so many bugs were introduced by the CU, they rush out patches with little to no time on test center and very little attention how it effects class interaction. The CU itself was pushed out much too fast. Not only does there need to be balance in combat but there needs to be balance in the process of balancing the classes. Changes need to be made slower with more time evaluating how the changes are doing. And look at where the balance really stems from.

In this case the balance problem is not that riflemen are too powerfull, is it because rifleman using non-rifleman specials are too powerfull in PVP. The in PVP part is very important because it goes to the essence of the Combat Upgrade. So how do we fix balance in PVP and not effect PVE? Because almost all of the proposed changes in balance will severely hurt us in PVE. I'll start first with our hard working Correspondent's suggestions which I quoted above:

1) I can see an accuracy mod at close range but if this is done tweak it a little at a time to see what the effects are. Don't start off with a 50-75% decrease in accuracy less then 35m. Start smaller and work your way up until a balance is achieved.

2) While this may help the balance it would also serve to make SWG more generic across its ranged professions. If you are going to have to do this then a decrease in accuracy for short/medium ranged weapons would be needed otherwise rifleman would no longer be rifleman. Of course giving them a long range penalty would necessitate a short range penalty for use as dictated in #1.

3) Education! YES! There needs to be more information in the hands of ALL professions on how to PVP against players in other professions like how a pistoleer can effectively take on a rifleman ect, ect. Tell them about the weapons they do have which have greater ranges, about how to use terrain to close the distance on a rifleman so you don't get rooted, in a word TACTICS!

4) This seems a much better fix IMHO then 1,2, or a min range nerf. This will have the most impact on PVP and the least impact on PVE of all the suggestions I've seen thus far.

5) I like this idea too however I feel that along with an increased SAC for non-rifle specials I'd like to see a decrease in SAC for rifle specials. I dont' know if anyone else has noticed but the SAC cost of specials seems to have a much greater impact on our action bar now then it did right after the CU. Right after the CU I was out soloing nests of lvl 80 rancors with no buffs and no food and never ran out of action. Just last night I was fighting nests of lvl 22 creatures and running out of action halfway through the second critter with using Nutron Pixie and Vasarian Brandy. Something has changed along the way...just none of the patch notes are acknowledging it.

6) My suggestion: This goes along with #4. If non-rifleman specials being used on rifles is the problem then that is what we need to fix not nerfing the rifleman. Another way to do this is to have a root/snare recovery. There are allready recovery skills for every other state in the game except these 2 which are effecting PVP. If the other clases had a root recovery this would negate the problem with rifleman using non-rilfeman skills to hold another PLAYER at long range and allow them to close within effective range of their class. At the same time this would not affect how the rifleman performs PVE at all. (Pardon me if someone has allready suggested this, if they have bravo!)

and now for the bad news on live (50 shots at each range tested vs cl1 player)

• 64m range 95%


• 40m range 95%


• 35m range 90%


• 5m range 75%

TC (50 shots at each range) (tested vs master TK/fencer/sword no cob this may skew the results)

• 64m range 85%


• 5m range 95% <----- more accurate

there is something wrong with that scenario but I can't see how having higher defences would translate into us hitting more.... unless the range accuracy band was reversed on us or I had a very strange statistical error.

We do the most damage per shot and can shoot the farthest, but fire the slowest and have the highest SAC cost along with taking an accuracy penalty at close ranges (if this is still the case as it was pre CU)and a large movement penalty. Thats 2 positives to 4 negatives, and now they want to add on a 5th (and the most devestating to boot)? Unacceptable.

Message Edited by Shock-N-Awe on 06-22-2005 04:15 PM

Message Edited by Shock-N-Awe on 06-24-2005 04:54 PM

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Thatguyfubu wrote:

nerfing is the absolute WRONG thing to do. I agree with the other poster about changing the arm from range to accuracy. This is what I propose.

Change cyber arm from ranged to accuracy

Move the ALR to a MRifleman only weapon

Change the T21 to kinetic to give a valid purpose again

Remove hinderance for carrying a pistol and lessen it for a carbine

Allow pistols and carbines to be fired at 65m but with an accuracy penalty

Never Ever include a minimum range (really if you think about it, it should be easier to shoot something at point blank)

Leave specials as they are

DO NOT NERF ANYTHING (well you could nerf them Jedi and I wouldn't mind)

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Mater Rifles/ Master Ranger has died out post cu completely i just got rid as my ranger side sadly let me down in rebel vs imperial pvp.

Master Rifles/ master Doc is an excellent group combo but in a pvp fight i have been beaten by swordsman and jedi when they use root or blind as i can't remove my states fast enough.

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Wonbad wrote:

take the ranged arms out of the game. end of story! they look stupid anyway.

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Message Edited by NithSano on 06-23-2005 08:22 AM

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NithSano wrote:

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Wonbad wrote:

take the ranged arms out of the game. end of story! they look stupid anyway.

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I have to agree 100%!! The big point to the CU was to balance the game and bring rifles as the damage dealers. That worked.. then the arms came along and now people are complaining about us. THE arms are the issue.. !!! Take them out or remove their advantage! Dont nerf the entire rifleman group of players; many who dont have or care about ARMS! FIx the root cause.

Nerfing professions to fix what is thougth to be a problem can not be the answer any longer..That only leads back to imbalance!

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valetman wrote:
There is a need for the devs to address the defining failure of a minimum range , and although Im sure that our coeespondant is on the case , doesnt need help,however given whats currently on TC that would seem to be coming, its only a matter of time.

That failure is simple.
Try taking cover, snipershotting or putting out any sort of meaningful damage, using only rifleman specials, on the corvette, or in geo or DWB, all the time, remaining more than 20m from your target.


If you cannot do that, then a min range can only achieve one thing, and that is preventing rifleman from taking part in content all other combat proffs have access to.

Please dont answer with 'root' or 'mez' , that is not a rifleman issue, the issue here is rifles specifically are being targeted as overpowered, the solution would seem to be nerf rifles, not prevent special stacking, or the use of a master level rifle by anyone with a combat level of 54, which are the real issue.

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Message Edited by Nisdain on 06-23-2005 11:51 AM

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InspGadgt wrote:

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valetman wrote:
There is a need for the devs to address the defining failure of a minimum range , and although Im sure that our coeespondant is on the case , doesnt need help,however given whats currently on TC that would seem to be coming, its only a matter of time.

That failure is simple.
Try taking cover, snipershotting or putting out any sort of meaningful damage, using only rifleman specials, on the corvette, or in geo or DWB, all the time, remaining more than 20m from your target.


If you cannot do that, then a min range can only achieve one thing, and that is preventing rifleman from taking part in content all other combat proffs have access to.

Please dont answer with 'root' or 'mez' , that is not a rifleman issue, the issue here is rifles specifically are being targeted as overpowered, the solution would seem to be nerf rifles, not prevent special stacking, or the use of a master level rifle by anyone with a combat level of 54, which are the real issue.

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Well the 20m min on TC is for Sniper Shot only not for all of our specials. We had this restriction when the CU went live initially. In this case it is really not all that bad since in battles you really only get one chance to use sniper shot where it's timers and SAC are most effective.

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Here's an idea:

Change the effect of the cybernetic ranged arms to provide speed/damage boosts rather than range boosts.

This is probably the fastest change that can be made and is the least likely to be buggy.

I am a very new to swg,just a cl9 working on my rifle stats.I have a hard enough time killing level 7mob`suseing a rifle and kiteing.I throw traps to blind or dizzy them beforeI useaim(i think level 4)shot and still might be killed by them,mind you I self heal also.If min range was added I would not be able to kill even level4 mob`s.

I think adding minrange would hurtpeople who are first trying this game out worse then it would the vets.Being so new to swg or any mmrpg for that matterI dont have any great ideas.Idoplay infantry and haveseen nerfs hurt that game very bad.So I am against nerfs in general.I think they would do better to fix all the bugs.I get the respec question every 30 secs in space and just alittle less on land.Maybe if they fix all the weapon bugs and work more on beefing the other class`s instead of nerfing the one`s that work as they should, things would be better and you would have less of the other class`s whining aboutover powered rifle,jedi, and bh.