Rifleman Archive
Thread: You wanted knockdown logs? Well here you go
I did not read every thing but wanted to ask abought your maths cause mine are difrent.
Discounting the misses I get:
32 total atempts. 18 rez 14 hits.
Your not taking 18 and 14 compared to each other, you need to compar them to the total numeber of atempts:
18/32= 56.25% of rez.
14/32= 43.75% of being KD.
If we count the misses:
40 total atempts. 8 misses, 18 rez, 14 hits.
Chanse of being hit: 32/40= 80% (looks much lower than PvE, so range def must be doing something?)
8/40= 20% Miss compleatly.
18/40= 45% odds of rez.
14/40= 35% of being KD.
You said 33%, wich I can get by disregarding the misses and taking 18/14 and subtracting one= 33.333333% So that looks like what you did wich is an easy mistake. But then a lot of the argument is gone. 44% is a much larger chancse than 33%.
Still good artical, thanks for the log. Need more of those around to look at the hard numbers.
Just want to clarify something about us in PVP too, I know that with the 75% reduction its tough because when we HS 3 our life drops almost like theirs.
But Are people forgetting bleeds? We hit a pool that cannot be healed, and the attack itself doesn't cost that much as you dont have to spam it. Once is enough.
Fellow rifleman, you do realise that when you slap a bleed on someone he will die heh? There is no counter to this besides first aid, and you need 3 or 4 first aid to stop a bleed. And its far from evident someone with first aid will be on hand.
There is no way our bleed can be healed. Guaranteed incapped. I love using them in PVP, and I can guarantee you I incap way more people than I'm getting incapped.
You know, there is no point in always whining everyone, we have some pretty powerful ability, even before master. Use them.
As this is a knockdown thread, I'll make a comparison.
A) A BH comes on a battlefield, find his target, KD, Health shot 1, Health Shot 2, BS 3, BS 3, etc....rinse and repeat and the target dies. Pretty effective, and not much strategy involved, I'll concede you that.
BUT
Do you believe me if I say a Rifleman as is is way more of a threat on a battlefield? No, well, lets see.
B) A Rifleman enters theabove mentionned battlefield. Spot a target (has a spraystick) Flurry Shot, Suppression fire (target knockdown in nearly the same time as above) (switch to T21) MS 1, and MS 2.
NOW
Our bleeds are so strong that at this point, you can actually Change target as the one KD will die of bleed before getting up. So you re-equip the spraysticks on move on to another target, while the BH would still be shotting the first target because health and action bleeds sucks due to the low damage of the weapons involved.
After 1 minute of fighting, the BH as taken out 1 opponent, and the rifleman 2 and begun fighting the third.
Its pretty impressive I tell you.
Your numbers are right, I should have put 35%, thanks for the correction.
The object of this test was to see how many times I got knocked down, so if they miss or I resist the KD it has the same effect. So basicly if this was a real fight and we were just going with the data I collected I could count on being able to roughlyshrug off 2 out of every 3 knockdown attempts.
As for the ranged defense I am kinda disapointed but not surprised at the results. The bonuses everyone gets to hit cant be countered all that much with a high ranged D. Also one thing that might make a diffrence is he was at his optimal range and in the prone position. Testing ranged defense wasnt really our goal.
I still want to know what other professions a Pistoleerhas to take in order to counter one of our "devastating attacks". None. But we have to? That makes no sense. Thats not balanced. Just put the **edit** knockdown on a timer. So what if I haven't spent all my skills? Neither has that Master Pistoleer but he still gets to dominate? Riiiightttt.
You have posted this same thing 3 times already. I have said my peace on it. Not once have you made a argument suporting your point. For some reason you only think the game should be balanced between Master professions, I disagree and I think that the game mechanics supports my view seeing that you have at that time spent less then 40% of your spec points. Balance starts at 250 spec points, why we have that many.
You are trying to compare Master because at any other time your arguement doesnt hold water. You want us to forget that we have over 60% of spec points to use yet.
Lets look at your example a Pistoleer taking non combat professions and a Rifleman doing the same. A Pistoleer will win, welcome to MMRPG's where balance at every point in the game is a wet dream.
Now lets take a Pistoleer and a Rifleman that spec for defense. Guess what the Rifleman has the advantage. The defense doesnt help the Pistoleer against the Rifleman, BUT it is a very valid template because of all the other classes that do have knockdown, that said pistoleer would have a advantage over all other people with knockdown. But against the Rifleman that doesnt have knockdown it doesnt help him a bit.
There is give and take, no ONE template will own every template in this game. You continue to only center on TWO type of templates when there is 100's, 1000's of possible ones to make. Each one having their own unique capabilities. All the whinning has done is take options away from people.
If we both have used up our 250 skill points, yes I do. The pistoleer would be easy, the BH would be very hard because of eye shot, there is really not much you can do against it but hope that having a higher Ranged D makes him miss.
I have fought pistoleer/BH's that have eye shot and have done well. Strafe shot 2 gives us the ability to kill anyone most of the time in 2.5 sec if we land both attacks. In that time a BH could land 3 eye shots if no knockdown was tried. That battle could go any way because of the mind cost of our attacks.
Those full 250 points are not put in place just so one combat profession can pick out bonuses from random skills in order to be effective against one ability. They are there so one a personhas the option toexperience other aspects that SWG has to offer. I must build a very strict template just to defend against knockdown. While a Pistoleercan do what was intended, which is explore the different parts of the game.Exploration, leadership, crafting. AND be effective inPvP combat.Not to say that if someone spends more points in combat they shouldn't be superior in combat. But we are talking about two people (Pistoleer and Rifleman) who spend an equal amount of points to master their profession. There needs to be balance. Can there ever be perfect balance? No. But it can sure as hell be more balanced than it is right now. Please tell me why a Pistoleer should be much more powerful than a Rifleman in PvP without having to take any extra skills.
Yes that is all I am saying.
What others are trying to push is that at Master nothing else you get should influence combat, and I say that is absolutely wrong. They are saying that only at Master can you compare professions, not at any other time, again this is wrong.
With all these posts to nerf knockdown I believe they are strong evidence to support my statement that people just want a free ticket. The ability is out there, but that isnt good enough, oh well.
Just a quick point, I don't think the last knockdown nerf was just because of PvP. Holo has said in a few posts that we should not be killing redcon mobs. People were spamming knockdown on mobs and not even getting hit once, this is why we saw such a big knockdown nerf.
I decided to take your advice SilverLobo, while I still do not believe that someone should have to spend 100 points to combat 1 skill, I'm willing to give it a try. Hopefully I can find someone with knockdown willing toshoot me 100 times with 0 knockdown resist, and then 100 with 30 knockdown resist. If so I will post the results so hopefully we can see how much resist helps.