Rifleman Archive
Thread: The lovely Pistoleer Correspondent at work AGAIN!
Fred_Skinner wrote:
And a rifle can hit aklick out. You think they are gonna put THAT in this game? good one....
Thanks for reiterating my point. RL comparisons to game mechanics are pointless.
While we're at it (making moronic comparisonsbetween RL andSWG)- how about using a scoped, bolt-action sniper rifle in CQB? Good one...
Did Jaegen used flawed & inaccurate numbers for the pistoleer lobbying purposes? No but, or maybe, just YES or NO?
Did Jaegen refused to verify the numbers and perform the series of unbiased tests on rifle vs pistol accuracy & DPS with rifleman proffessional? YES or NO?
If the answer to both questions is Yes then it pretty much justifies the rifleman anger and all the flames ...
My private conspiracy theory ... I am wondering who provided devs with flawed numbers which resulted in T21 nerf ...
I also want to know when a pistoleer is going to trach me how to use my weapon because obviously they know much more about how to use it then we do.
/vent
The thing that pisses me off the most is that he has the gall to say something like that then come in to OUR forums and act like we are the ones being uncivil. That to me is truly hipocritical and whether he wants to admit it our not he obvoiusly had some major influence in this speed cap ordeal , and his way of dealing with it..... " It hasnt been implemented yet." HAHA . I wont bad mouth the pistoleers at all because I dont want to see anyone get nerfed but If you think that the speed cap makes things Balanced you are very mistaken. It also makes me sick to read your reply's because they are filled with misleading statements, it is easy to see where this speed Cap got its steam and it is placed squarely on one guys shoulders.
/endvent
/minivent grrrrrrr
If your issue is with the proposed cap, then that's what you need to address. I don't think the cap is a good idea, and I have made proposals (in several different places, to both riflemen and pistoleers as well as on the discussion forums) for what I think is a better approach.
The problem I have with your posts is that you seem to be following the strategy that if you can make Jaegen look bad, you can make his arguments look bad as well. This is not good reasoning, and it's pure demagoguery. If this is your strategy, how does this make your approach any better than what you're accusing Jaegen of doing?
Whether or not Jaegen is a wifebeater or Hitler Reborn or whatever has no bearing on whether or not the speed cap is a good idea. They're completely unrelated subjects. Stick to the issue, please.
Lol. Those are unrelated subjects, to be sure.
(no, and no)
I agree Noules, couldn't have said it better myself.
Noules000 wrote:
I'm not sure what you're doing, or what pistoleers you're fighting, but most people are usually dead before I get 8 strafe2's off. That's about 6k PvP damage, on average, using my laser rifle (sliced, around 60-451, no powerup) counting the AR bonus (it's less damage against unarmored people - about 4k total).
And Pistoleers usually hit me for 400 damage + with each stopping shot (and that is a very conservative estimate).
400 x 20 shots before HAM expires = 8K P v P damage.
Notwithstanding horrendous Rifle compared to Pistol accuracy, huge Rifle defense penalties, low Rifle run speed . . .
Incidentally, I am using a pre-nerf T21 with over 830 maximum damage after slice and powerup. Yes, Master Pistoleers will still beat meat least asoften than I beat them. My damage is meaningless when I miss almost every shot, need grotesque amounts of mind to fire, and am neatly pinned each and every single time the Pistoleer fires. Unfair? Hardly. I have no problem with dying to a Master Pistoleer. I do have a problem with miserably dying each and every time, as would be the case should the speed changes go live.
Congratulations on your supposed uberdom, but take a look at this forum, and you will very quickly see that you are in a small minority. Notwithstanding that Jaegan will gleefully cite you to display that the Rifleman community is in "agreement" with him.
As far as Bounty Hunters with Scatter Pistols and Eye Shots . . . I would complain were it not so funny. I miss, am hit with eye shot, then miss again and again as my mind is violated -- full blue to nothing at all in 2-3 seconds. If I must endure that, fine, but why on earth should I fire at one-third the rate in compensation?
Krupskaya wrote:
Noules000 wrote:
Stopping shot already has a 5x damage multiplier. It's just that with a 4x delay, it's not a DPS efficient move.
No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.Stopping Shot does not have a 5.0x modifier -- this was a change announced as impending by the Developers, meaning we simply agree on this revision.
It does not have a 4x delay. I spent a month one box away from Master Pistoleer and, while I agree with the premise that, most of the time, it is not terribly DPS efficient (compared to Fan Shot, at least) the delay seems more in the range of 2.5-3x.
Notwithstanding that Pistol-users can cap speed and fire at that cap regardless -- how convenient that you would point out supposed Rifle damage superiority given cap speed, but maintain that Stopping Shot is inefficient despite cap speed.
The pistoleer FAQ and the tests done by another player (whose name I do not remember, and the post seems to have been un-stickied for some reason in the pistoleer forum) both seem to agree that stopping shot multiplier is 5x, and has 4x delay. If you think this is incorrect, you can present your own evidence, of course, but this seems consistent with my own experience. And most pistoleers do NOT cap speed with just master pistoleer. That's +74 speed, which means 0.26 delay. That means an adjusted 3.85s delay for them to cap, which means someone with just master pistoleer isn't going to cap stopping shot.
Rifle isn't inherently less accurate. Pistol specials do have a higher accuracy bonus, but rifle has a higher skill bonus at master (102 vs 95) and a higher ranged defense bonus (18 vs 5).
Rifle run speed isn't noticably slower than any other. I have no problems kiting TKAs if I have room and they don't burst.
I don't know what you mean by being 'pinned'. I'm guessing you mean the 'stutter-step' issue. My understanding was that this was an acknowledged bug, and it affects everyone, not just riflemen.
I'm a master SL with my master rifle/marksman, and I have a net +65 ranged defense when grouped. Most non-masters have a very difficult time hitting me compared to my accuracy against them. Topped out classes come closer, but as far as I know I have yet to see a pure defense spec (the closest was a TKA master/fencer S&G who did indeed give me lots of trouble in terms of landing shots). BH/pistoleers do have pretty decent accuracy against me, but they also don't have much defense. In a non-buffed fight, strafe2 is extremely dominant (in a highly buffed fight, I generally need to use Muon to stay competitive).
I just wanted to thank Noules for all of his reasonable posts on this thread.
I don't understand why there is so much bickering back and forth when we could work together.
Both Pistoleers and Riflemen think that the speed cap changes are stupid. So why not work together to get them removed and changed with something better? If all of us tell the Devs we hate them, then we can make that happen.
I think the Riflemen need some other improvements and fixes, like getting rid of the 2.5 melee modifier or reducing HAM costs or improving short range accuracy,and I support those as well. Why can't we just work together to fix things and improve things instead of attacking each other?
Noules000 wrote:
The pistoleer FAQ and the tests done by another player (whose name I do not remember, and the post seems to have been un-stickied for some reason in the pistoleer forum) both seem to agree that stopping shot multiplier is 5x, and has 4x delay. If you think this is incorrect, you can present your own evidence, of course, but this seems consistent with my own experience. And most pistoleers do NOT cap speed with just master pistoleer. That's +74 speed, which means 0.26 delay. That means an adjusted 3.85s delay for them to cap, which means someone with just master pistoleer isn't going to cap stopping shot.
The current damage modifieris not 5x. Read the Pistoleer Petition and the Developer responses to it -- in response to player requests, they shall be increasing the damage modifier to 5x from the current value of 4x. As to a shot doing four times the damage at four times the delay, that is absolute nonsense; Stopping Shot simply does not work in this fashion. As for contrasting evidence, I'm pretty sure the Prima guide cites it; and, furthermore, I am routinely bombarded with Stopping Shots from master Pistoleers w/o any Bounty Hunter skills w/ a Stopping Shot once every second so, once again, your suppositions are just incorrect.
I agree that many Pistoleers will be unable to cap speed with their chosen weapons. Not with DX2's, Strikers, Tangles, Power5's or Republic Blasters, certainly. But a Master Pistoleer firing Fan Shot, or BS3, will be able to cap speed w/ a FWG5 or Scout; with Stopping Shot (though the delay is not 4.0) the cap will often be unattainable.
"I don't see any master rifleman complaining about the damage they're doing with strafe2."
I am a Master Rifleman and Master Marksman and am certainly not happy with it, considering how rarely I hit.
"Rifle isn't inherently less accurate. Pistol specials do have a higher accuracy bonus, but rifle has a higher skill bonus at master (102 vs 95) and a higher ranged defense bonus (18 vs 5)."
That is absolute nonsense. A T21 suffers a -70 accuracy modifier and goes into the negatives within 4 meters of departure from its ideal range. Even at 60 meters, I am less accurate with my T21 as a Master Rifleman + Marksman than I was with my Launcher Pistol as a Novince Commando + 1/3 of Pistoleer. At maximum distances I am invariably outshot by Pistoleers using whatever weapon -- and, once again, I'm not speaking about Bounty Hunters, who seem unable to miss in any circumstance.
And as for ranged defense, it doesn't work. Do you dodge blaster bolts? I can't.
"I don't know what you mean by being 'pinned'. I'm guessing you mean the 'stutter-step' issue. My understanding was that this was an acknowledged bug, and it affects everyone, not just riflemen."
Pinned = pegged = bullseyed, in this context. Pistoleers put my accuracy to shame even at a 60 meter distance.
"I'm a master SL with my master rifle/marksman, and I have a net +65 ranged defense when grouped. Most non-masters have a very difficult time hitting me compared to my accuracy against them. Topped out classes come closer, but as far as I know I have yet to see a pure defense spec (the closest was a TKA master/fencer S&G who did indeed give me lots of trouble in terms of landing shots). BH/pistoleers do have pretty decent accuracy against me, but they also don't have much defense. In a non-buffed fight, strafe2 is extremely dominant (in a highly buffed fight, I generally need to use Muon to stay competitive)."
Master Marksman, Master Rifleman, Master Squad Leader -- yes, I can believe you can outfight a mere Pistoleer, given that I'm currently on equal footing as only a Master Marksman and Master Rifleman. But should Rifle-users need to expend every last skillpoint to compete with a Pistoleer who still has the ability to choose Bounty Hunter and double his effectiveness? Especially that the paradigm will become even more askew if the ill-advised speed changes go live.
This is a post from the dev. The link is:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=553300#M553300