Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman : PvP Issues
CorenLanra
Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:53 am
#40
Ok.. I have not yet eaten my wheaties today.. was thinking Berzerker
Which is still bugged (uncraftable) as of today.. arg...
Which is still bugged (uncraftable) as of today.. arg...
DracoRain
Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:18 pm
#41
First to Issik, lunge2 is 20m, not 30m, don't know where you get that number from.
Now, I will give my opinions onyour issuesfor PvP. I was a master rifleman heavy in PvP for 3 months.
1) Mind pool. Well, right off the bat you can't heal it. That right there is an EXTREME advantage. Any novice medic with a stim B can heal for 400-500 health and action every so often. No one but a CM can heal mind and it a) gives you wounds, b) is not standard on heal amount, and c) can only heal others, not yourself.
2)Buffs. Availability should not be an issue really. It might take you longer to find entertainer buffs than doc buffs, but a prepared person will find them. However, entertainer buffs are based on YOUR stats. This means as a zabrak with mind capped at 1000/500/900 the standard entertainer buff gives me 2000/1000/1800. Its a straight doubling of your stats. This means the most you can buff a mind stat without skill attachments is double, which I believe the highest is 1300 on humans. It would take an entertainer with the skill tapes to buff you to 200% (which I don't even know is possible) to compare to doc buffs which average 2200-2400. Add to the fact that all mind buffs seemingly cap at 2 hours compared to the over 3 hour doc buffs.
On top of the buffs you are then almost forced to use vasarian brandy to get your mind stats up to par. It effectively eliminates any other chef drink because without mind in PvP you can't last.
3) Armor. Riflemen have a variety of weapon damage types. Energy, stun, heat, acid, cold. I think that is more than any other profession has. All rifles besides berserker and perhaps sg-82 have AP, which will rip up players armor and tear up PSGs. Now throw in the fact that armor gets capped at 90% for everything except stun, restraint, and saber you can see the advantage. It causes people to buy stun armor suits solely to protect against riflemen in PvP, possibly fencers as well. People also buy PSGs to guard stun but a rifle tears those up to nothing in a few shots.
Now couple this vulnerability to stun with AP1 and its even better. Now throw in the fact you can't buff as well in mind and you can't heal mind and you can see all the advantages here for riflemen against players who aren't headshotting back.
4) Speed. +90 at master. You can use headshot3, the primary pvp move, at once a second with the primary pvp weapon, a jawa rifle. So now you have the best PvP weapon (jawa, because of armor), hitting the weakest PvP pool (mind), at once per second; something not even carbineers or pistoleers can do by only mastering their profession.
So there you have it. Those are the huge advantages of riflemen in PvP. They also have the most melee/ranged defense of any ranged profession and have block, which does work, but does not absorb all the damage.
The disadvantages of riflemen are that they have little state defenses vs. things such as KD and dizzy etc. However, if we are talking about PvP here no one is just a rifleman in pvp. You don't pvp with rifleman/tailor. Rifleman is usually coupled with tka, fencer, doctor, cm or a combination of them. All but CM offer significant defense vs. states with doctor effectively eliminating them all. CM/rifle is the "offense stacking" in the game while the rifle/tk/fencer or rifle/doc is the defense stacking.
Things that would help this:
- Make mind healable the same as health and action so that it doesn't become the only way to win.
- Lower armor resists so that stun damage isn't the ONLY way to hurt someone. Make it so kinetic, energy, electricity, blast all are lowered to the level of stun so that any profession can compete OR just give every profession a stun weapon.
- Make entertainer buffs equal in comparison to doc buffs so that there are more variations of chef drinks/foods used beside the usual brandy/canape.
- Bring other ranged professions in line with speed of riflemen. At this point pistoleers and carbineers are either forced to spend millions on attachments or forced to pick up bh pistol or bh carbs to hit the speed riflemen can.
Kachada
Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:34 am
#42
Thats true, berserker is AP0, as are all Heat-Damage wepaons. I'd ask for that to get fixed, it'd be nice for hunting, but I'm more concerned we'll be nerfed in to oblivion and the entire Galactic Civil War will be determined by brawlers. 
Fred_Skinner
Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:08 am
#43
If I was to pick a short-term solution to PvP, I would say that only health ≤0 incaps. Shunting negitive Mind and Action, just simply having it stop you from using specials and you can still run on auto might be one possiblility. While this gives back some power to Pistols, they don't have our AP so I think it's cool...just a silly thought...
Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 08-17-2004 09:10 AM
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:40 pm
#44
Djena wrote:
Issik wrote:Lunge2, 30m range.Strafe2, 64m range.Nuff said.Melee Defense:Remove it all. Having a mod that makes us easier to hit for holding a rifle and a mod that makes us harder to hit (both in melee) is just absurd. It only contributes to cross-profession stacking, which make us look far superior than we are. I've said it once and I'll say it again, "A melee rifleman is a dead rifleman." Remove ALL the melee defense from the Rifleman skill set.Lunge 1 & 2, 20 m range, get your facts straight, we got this to help us around the lag issue where things can be further away from us than they appear. There is a very nice post about this in the pikeman forums:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pikeman&message.id=33780#M33780
Carry on
Actually lag CAN make it look 30-35m, I had one guy swear I killed him from 100m.
DracoRain
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:43 pm
#45
Key phrase: make it look. It's not ACTUALLY 30m. If we are going by what it looks like I can tell you I've been shot by riflemen from about 80m before, but I know it's not really happening unless the guy is using some kind of cheat and it's the same with lunge.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:47 pm
#46
Ya true, but lag also irritates alot of people and adds to it, that "Out of Range" message is nice to see. The range is 20m but then again, if a rifle only shoots 64m why can a brawler hit at 20m unless your a pikemen.
DracoRain
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:01 pm
#47
Well, you need to be a master brawler to hit 20m, not just novice. And even then the ranged player has a 44m buffer. If you're fighting in the open you're gonna win. If you're fighting closed quarters the ranged should and will beat you. This another discussion though not meant for this topic.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:18 pm
#48
I have seen Lunge1 hit 20m, the only difference is Lunge1 lowers posture and Lunge2 is a KD attack, but it does deal with this issue cause it is a PvP issue.
I understand the Brawlers hitting up close, but to truely give us sniper ability the lunge range should be lowered to 10m, or else we are just gonna go prone and are dead before we have a chance. The revamp idea does give sniper ability to an extended ability, though the hiding from radar part will never happen. But realize after the revamp rifles will be slower (Even if I have an E11), lowering the range to 10m would balance that out more.
I understand the Brawlers hitting up close, but to truely give us sniper ability the lunge range should be lowered to 10m, or else we are just gonna go prone and are dead before we have a chance. The revamp idea does give sniper ability to an extended ability, though the hiding from radar part will never happen. But realize after the revamp rifles will be slower (Even if I have an E11), lowering the range to 10m would balance that out more.
Message Edited by LiakyK on 08-17-2004 06:19 PM
DracoRain
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:41 pm
#49
Lunge is either posture down or KD. Both have timers. If you are wearing any armor you aren't gonna be dead before you have a chance. No melee has any weapon that can kill you that fast. And only swordsman and TK can target mind and you can block kinetic and blast to 90% for that. Plus neither lunge dizzies you so you can get right back up. Plus any true PvP player will have some kind of state/posture defense anyway as a second skill. No one PvPs with rifleman/architect or something.
BaronJedi
Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:16 pm
#50
My only worry is that when they nerf armor they will also nerf speed and accuracy while moving for Rifleman, while melees keep that 20m lunge of theirs. I hope the devs realize that a sniper profession just can't work in this game. At least not a 100% sniper.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:25 pm
#51
DracoRain wrote:Lunge is either posture down or KD. Both have timers. If you are wearing any armor you aren't gonna be dead before you have a chance. No melee has any weapon that can kill you that fast. And only swordsman and TK can target mind and you can block kinetic and blast to 90% for that. Plus neither lunge dizzies you so you can get right back up. Plus any true PvP player will have some kind of state/posture defense anyway as a second skill. No one PvPs with rifleman/architect or something.
You have never seen a Master Riflemen/Master Squad Leader PvP have you?
I PvP and I dont have alot of Status defenses, im not gonna be a cookiee cutter. Also you gotta realize alot of meleers have Dizzy attacks of some sort as well, by the time you are Kneeling or KDed they can catch you and dizzy you.
Waste93
Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:28 pm
#52
Might be surprised. That use to be my template. Of course that was before buffs and armor. But I did do some PvP with that template. Ended up about 50/50.
DracoRain wrote:
No one PvPs with rifleman/architect or something.