Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman : PvP Issues
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:31 pm
#53
Waste93 wrote:Might be surprised. That use to be my template. Of course that was before buffs and armor. But I did do some PvP with that template. Ended up about 50/50.
DracoRain wrote:No one PvPs with rifleman/architect or something.
Ya but stacking killed this, I knew a few others who did it. Glad I was able to make Riflmen/SL a viable combao before Spamming SL Skills, not to mention I was a wookiee
XaverriJade7
Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:28 pm
#54
<-----Rifleman/Armorsmith
I PvP sometimes, but Jedi have made this pointless. When that situation has been fixed, there won't be anything stopping me from doing it when I want to(Which has never been more then 2% of the time regardless of my template).
IvoTosroe
Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:47 pm
#55
The problem really comes down to this...
An unarmed person can take on a jedi with no problem 1 on 1. And don't tell me you can't because I've seen jedi flee from melee characters, specifically you tka/fencer dabblers.
A person armed with a ranged weapon isa joke for a jedi.
Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?
You would think someone at a distance that actually had a 500-600 damage weapon would have a better chance at killing a lightsaber wieldingjedi than someone fighting unarmed at point blank, but no, this has to be the matrix online.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:04 pm
#56
That has been pointed out before, and alot of Jedi I know are admitting to being over powered to a rediculous strength. If they can make saber black less powerful and give them Toughness, they would do alot better. Also a defense vs intimdate would help.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:21 pm
#57
By reading your post, I see you have a pure PvP character. But not everyone wants to be a pure combatant and does not have enough time/cash to have to characters. I know about falling over, you only do when you change positions yourself and not forced to. And about the food, not everyone has the room to take that, why? Cause they need room for other things. I dont know you character, but I know trandos who need two Brandis and 3 Ahrishas so not to loose their minds in combat form being riflemen, or other professions. Not every species can have 1100 base mind stats. Im a wookiee, and the only thing helping me out is the fact our mind encumberence isnt that high, unless they changed it recently.
But not everyone is also gonna have 90% armor, or have enough credits to afford 2 sets of high quality armor. Not to mention the money to spend on buying probabably 10 sets of comp armor just to get the slice you want, im sure if the Armorsmith sold it like this a set of 90% would go for 2.5 mil.
Sure pure PvPer templates have an advantage. But now the cookiee cutter professions have made people almost invulnerable to being hit or taking damage. I really believe skills should be for the weapon you have in your hand, such as riflemen only get the skills they earned from the riflemen and marksmen trees, while TK would get it from the TK skills and brawler skills. Unless you are a stacker you cannot PvP effectively, it is really absured, I will be glad to see Armor and buff nerfs, will force people to think how they want to fight and not just rush in and spam spectials like is done now (Yes im guilty of this but I have no other choice).
But not everyone is also gonna have 90% armor, or have enough credits to afford 2 sets of high quality armor. Not to mention the money to spend on buying probabably 10 sets of comp armor just to get the slice you want, im sure if the Armorsmith sold it like this a set of 90% would go for 2.5 mil.
Sure pure PvPer templates have an advantage. But now the cookiee cutter professions have made people almost invulnerable to being hit or taking damage. I really believe skills should be for the weapon you have in your hand, such as riflemen only get the skills they earned from the riflemen and marksmen trees, while TK would get it from the TK skills and brawler skills. Unless you are a stacker you cannot PvP effectively, it is really absured, I will be glad to see Armor and buff nerfs, will force people to think how they want to fight and not just rush in and spam spectials like is done now (Yes im guilty of this but I have no other choice).
Chaosium_451
Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:33 am
#58
Take us off the radar somehow when we're getting set up.
And rifles need a longer range. Not much point taking all the time to get intooptimum firing range when all I'll get is one shot before my target moves 4 steps and gets out of my range.
DracoRain
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:22 am
#59
LiakyK,
I am no longer a master rifleman. I gave it up about a month ago. Was a master for maybe 3 months or so. Currently I am TKM/Master Pikeman/Master medic. I guess that is pure PvP. There are two sides to the stacking argument though. One side of the argument is that you should only get benefits from the weapon you are holding. So a TKM/Master rifleman only benefits from tkm defense when unarmed and while unarmed you lose the extra ranged/melee you get in rifleman. The other side of this argument is that it will make a rifleman/tailor on equal footing with a rifleman/tkm. Personally, I don't think this is too fair. One of the unique things about SWG is that you can build different templates and it's fun to mess around and find one you like. I don't like the idea of a rifle/tailor being even with a rifle/tkm if they are both holding rifles. I say this because one spent all his/her skill points in combat. It only makes sense that a pure combatant is better than a non pure one. By pure combatant I mean all combat skills, doctor, medic, CM. Anything that gives you an advantage in PvP. After all if you don't get an advantage by being pure combat than why not go combat/crafter to make money on the side?
Now there is the next problem. If you eliminate defense benefits from "stacking" it makes having 2 combat masters pointless. This leads to CM/combat and doctor/combat. If I can't have defense vs. X from another profession why not pick up doctor instead to just cure it all; dizzy, blind, stun, intimidate etc.? And if I don't get defenses from TKM while holding a rifle then why can a rifleman get offensive bonuses from CM while holding a rifle. Meaning you can throw a poison while holding any weapon, "offense stacking." So now that you can't defend yourself by stacking up defenses why would anyone have 2 combat masters? All those pure PvPers with combat/combat are going to go combat/doc or combat/CM, and still be able to beat the combat/tailor for the most part, resulting in no change there but effectively driving everyone to a combat/CM or doc template.
Waste93
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:34 am
#60
Stacking needs to stay. If we get rid of the ability to stack defenses we would also probably have to do the same for offensive skills. What this does is move this game from a Profession based system to one that is a Class based system.
The other point is from an RPG view. How is it that just because I'm holding one weapon over another I suddenly forget how to defend myself?
Ackehece
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:40 am
#61
Hey! I are one (or was for like 8 months!) MR/MSL! forever - going back after i finish mastering CM
LiakyK wrote:
DracoRain wrote:
Lunge is either posture down or KD. Both have timers. If you are wearing any armor you aren't gonna be dead before you have a chance. No melee has any weapon that can kill you that fast. And only swordsman and TK can target mind and you can block kinetic and blast to 90% for that. Plus neither lunge dizzies you so you can get right back up. Plus any true PvP player will have some kind of state/posture defense anyway as a second skill. No one PvPs with rifleman/architect or something.
You have never seen a Master Riflemen/Master Squad Leader PvP have you?
I PvP and I dont have alot of Status defenses, im not gonna be a cookiee cutter. Also you gotta realize alot of meleers have Dizzy attacks of some sort as well, by the time you are Kneeling or KDed they can catch you and dizzy you.
as for dizzy and knockdown, usually when they lunge then have the dizzy in a macro stack right after it so iyou get knocked down a level and dizzied immediately after the lunge...
DracoRain
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:42 am
#62
I agree Waste. Stacking is unique and a good thing for the game now. Back when there was no cap it wasn't a good thing. But with the 125 cap for melee/ranged/block/counterattack/dodge it is good. These guys that are capped are a little difficult to hit, but you do hit them enough, its not impossible like before the cap. Also, the RPG thing always made sense to me as well. If you currently have the skill you wouldn't just forget it.
Kachada
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:48 am
#63
People who totally devote their entire character to combat ought to have an edge over those Rifleman/architechts. That's just that.
I'm a stacker because that's just the way this game is. If you want to be as strong as the others, you stack or you pick up doctor. However, it's harldy cookie-cutter stacking out there. Everyone seems to have thier own approach, some stacking defenses, some mastering multiple combat professions for more offensive options, but nealry everyone I've seen with a "What do you think of this template" thread has something a little different to suit their playstyle.
In the end, people with single combat professions (rifleman/architect, dancer/pistoleer, etc.) can still be effective in PvP, but really only as a supplementary force to the all-out combatants.
I'm a stacker because that's just the way this game is. If you want to be as strong as the others, you stack or you pick up doctor. However, it's harldy cookie-cutter stacking out there. Everyone seems to have thier own approach, some stacking defenses, some mastering multiple combat professions for more offensive options, but nealry everyone I've seen with a "What do you think of this template" thread has something a little different to suit their playstyle.
In the end, people with single combat professions (rifleman/architect, dancer/pistoleer, etc.) can still be effective in PvP, but really only as a supplementary force to the all-out combatants.
Acadai
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:31 pm
#64
Being a Master Swordsman and working on Master Rifleman 
I have a suggestion for the Combat Revamp that no one will like:
Have the Rifleman speeds like that of Swordsman.
The 2 Professions are the inverse of each other, so why should Rifleman be hitting for 1/sec and Swordsman not?
and what about a CoB for Ranged? if meleers can "think about self preservation" why can't ranged?
maybe call it something else, but give us something to boost our Dodge/Block/Counter.
I have a suggestion for the Combat Revamp that no one will like:
Have the Rifleman speeds like that of Swordsman.
The 2 Professions are the inverse of each other, so why should Rifleman be hitting for 1/sec and Swordsman not?
and what about a CoB for Ranged? if meleers can "think about self preservation" why can't ranged?
maybe call it something else, but give us something to boost our Dodge/Block/Counter.
Kachada
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:45 pm
#65
Acadai wrote:
Being a Master Swordsman and working on Master Rifleman
I have a suggestion for the Combat Revamp that no one will like:
Have the Rifleman speeds like that of Swordsman.
The 2 Professions are the inverse of each other, so why should Rifleman be hitting for 1/sec and Swordsman not?
and what about a CoB for Ranged? if meleers can "think about self preservation" why can't ranged?
maybe call it something else, but give us something to boost our Dodge/Block/Counter.
I've actually given some thought to that too. Make rifleman more of a "slow moving death" character. No need for a different speed cap for rifles, just lower the speed mod at master.
I figure this is probably going to be what they end up doing.