Rifleman Archive

---

tekniko wrote:


Is that all it takes? Well, we'll all just rush right out a get a few. Please.

Jedi should be nowhere near as powerful, nor as plentiful, as they are in this game. If you'll remember, they were hunted to near extinction by bounty hunters. Many, many Jedi died on Geonosis, even during a time when they were still particularly powerful. Luke Skywalker, strong in the force was he, was shot by a "shemp" in Return of the Jedi. Jango offed one fairly easily at point blank range; he nearly took Mace Windu with the flamethrower. Obi-Wan and Anakin were rounded up by the Geonosans and Jango Fett before the clones and the other Jedi came to their rescue. Even Master Qui-Gon Jinn can be quoted as saying "I can only protect you, not fight a war for you." Jedi in the storyline realized their own mortality, even when particularly skilled at preserving it.

A master in any profession should be just that: a master in using his particular skill set. A master rifleman should be capable of doing ranged damage against any creature at range, Jedi or no. Should a master rifleman be able to one shot kill a Jedi Knight? Probably only with luck, great equipment, and superior tactical advantage. Should a master rifleman at least have a chance at range to deal significant damage with decent weapons against any creature, including Jedi? Yes. That also applies to any other combat profession and bounty hunters (master marksmen, after all).

---

I'd like to take this moment to say...no. The Jedi were hunted to extinction at least by the words of Obi Wan Kenobi in A New Hope by none other than one person...Darth Vader. The Sith...or as I like to call them Anti Jedi were the ones who sought the destruction of the Jedi order...and in so many words brought that end about under Darth Sidious.

On a 1 to 1 ratio...unless the rifleman is super skilled and has extraordinary weaponry...or the Jedi is very unskilled...no you shouldn't be able to do much damage to them. In the current system...I do advocate for a change to saber block...but on a 1v1 level...Jedi should be able to outclass any other master profession...even MBH...I am among the BH ranks by the way. Now should there be room for discussion about the effects of prolonged force use...Jedi being weary from having to use the force to deflect laser blasts...constant battle will always make you slip up and eventually no matter how skilled a warrior..you will tire and if you cannot exit combat to rest..you will die. I personally think that battle fatigue should have more importance in the overall combat system. It should start lowering defenses and accuracy and speed, your force pool should drain faster at higher levels of BF and your overall combat performance should drastically decrease as you become more and more fatigued...but that's my opinion...wish it was that way.

Hmm...

Maybe if saberblock was implemented as a "Center of Being" for Jedi that took up Force points each time it was activated we'd have a way of simulating "Jedi combat weariness"?

I recently read in one of the EU books set in the pre-Imperial age, that stated:

"There are only two ways for non-jedi to defeat a Jedi in battle: to either lull them into a false sense of security, or overwhelm them with sheer force of numbers"

This of course wouldn't work in game contexts as players need a way to kill any enemy ingame, but it is a hint to which tactic that could be used to kill Jedi - Just to take an example, have a squadleader in your group and have him call the shots for all ranged profession players in your group. If a player Jedi has got five T21 wielding, DE-10 blasting, Elite Carbineering people shooting at him, something is bound to pass through his defences regardless of the 80% chance to block.

In essence 80% chance to block all damage is *near* equivalent to wearing 80% composite armour, as it will absorb 80% of the incoming damage while the Jedi will avoid 80% of the damage entirely but still get hit by the full damage of the 20% that pass through his blocks. (Correct me if I'm wrong mathematically speaking. I know it works differently ingame becuase of modifiers etc.)

---

Manheim wrote:

---

thecolonelcardaks wrote:

Well, look at it this way. Did you ever see a jedi get hit by a blaster in any of the movies or comic books or anytihng? Very rarely.

---

In Episode II, Jango shot a Jedi. Also, Luke got shot on Jabbas skiff if my memory serves...

Vader got shot by Han in Empire Strikes Back....but I think Han forgot to put his blaster on charge the night before

---

In Episode II, Jango shot a Jedi - only because the jedi had just jumped up to the balcony and was in a unbalanced state, it was luck not skill there

---

ShakariPsy wrote:

In Episode II, Jango shot a Jedi - only because the jedi had just jumped up to the balcony and was in a unbalanced state, it was luck not skill there

---

Yeah, okay. Jango owned him...simple as that. Jango also worked over Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan was "lucky" if anything. I can't wait to watch the blasters fly in Episode 3.

These rationalizations are simply amazing. The evidence that Jedi are not superbeings is readily available in a variety of forms. It really galls these people that their heroes (and characters) are not indestructible.

"No one can kill a Jedi," said young Anakin. Qui-Gon replied, "I wish that were so." Yes, Jedi can and do die. Period.

Even Yoda once said, "Strong in the Force am I, but not that strong." Mortality.

Aside from the fact that it's getting to be where I can't swing a dead gurrcat in a starport without hitting a Jedi, those who play Jedi in this game seem to have this idea that their characters should be completely impervious to being hit in combat, damaged, even killed. Everyone else dies in this game, including NPC Jedi, sometimes at the hands of a single competent combatant.

---

tekniko wrote:
These rationalizations are simply amazing. The evidence that Jedi are not superbeings is readily available in a variety of forms. It really galls these people that their heroes (and characters) are not indestructible.

"No one can kill a Jedi," said young Anakin. Qui-Gon replied, "I wish that were so." Yes, Jedi can and do die. Period.

Even Yoda once said, "Strong in the Force am I, but not that strong." Mortality.

Aside from the fact that it's getting to be where I can't swing a dead gurrcat in a starport without hitting a Jedi, those who play Jedi in this game seem to have this idea that their characters should be completely impervious to being hit in combat, damaged, even killed. Everyone else dies in this game, including NPC Jedi, sometimes at the hands of a single competent combatant.

---

Agreed.

Still, most peoples gripes with Jedi is that they are so vividly visible and are impossible to PvP against for the regular player. If both these reasons to gripe were removed I don't see a problem in having Jedi ingame.

Remove Jedi from regualr PvP = problem solved

Removing Jedi force bonuses from their robes = problem solved

Equipped saber gives vis inside NPC towns = problem solved

Having powerful NPCs landing on Jedi after 5 mins if they use powers in NPC towns = problem solved

I think the ability to become Jedi if one so choses is a cool feature (yes, omg a non-jedi hater) - but cool features will always be exploited by people with no brains.

I couldn't care an @sshat if Jedi are ingame or not if above is implemented in one way or the other as it would minimize their impact on the regular playerbase.

Unless they have master sabers, jedi are totally vulnerable to range. I've soloed a couple of them. I'm looking forward to the combat upgrade to explore this in richer detail

---

ScreaminBanshee wrote:

for the post above me i am no longer, but once was a pikeman and i would go " toe to toe" w/ the best knights/guardians of tempest and, though the fights would last 5-10 minutes i would almost always win... these were highly ranked guardians w/ master lightsabers, they really aren't that hard. Now I know this is talking about rifleman but the poster said they can grill any combat class and that just isn't true. Speed capped swordsmen grill even harder than my pikes used to.

---

Here is an idea:
On bloodfin, all of the non-jedi pvpers have created a city on an island just west of coronet. On this island, we have divided it in half, with Imp bases on one side and reb bases on the other.
We have told jedi that all jedi who go there, will be greifed away. The system works well and we have tons of fun there on a daily basis

---

kevinq3789 wrote:
Here is an idea:
On bloodfin, all of the non-jedi pvpers have created a city on an island just west of coronet. On this island, we have divided it in half, with Imp bases on one side and reb bases on the other.
We have told jedi that all jedi who go there, will be greifed away. The system works well and we have tons of fun there on a daily basis

---

---

Cpl_Fisher wrote:

Meh I am slowely building up a BH on Bria, I'm so sick and tired of grinding invest xp though, i think I'm just going to faction farm and turn in the faction, It should be faster.

---

Do what I plan to do; first get your Master combat profession(in my case, rifleman), then get involved in some base takedowns, easy 1k invest XP. Oh, and aparently its best to max out your invest XP before you even train the first box, as level 2 missions are bugged to hell and back.

Dont you just love returning to an old profession after a break from the game? Same job, different bugs