Rifleman Archive

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Issik wrote:

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Mojomaster2704 wrote:

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TheLastV8 wrote:
Jedi dont bother me with speed and Acc. cap. One hit KO from my T21

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2./ I highly doubt you one shot killed a fully buffed jedi (if you have the uberest T21 on ur server and did infact do this, then props)

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He does. Maybe not the best t-21 on the server, but it's nasty.

Seen him do it at a base raid, dropped the bastid as he ran away from the battle in one shot. The jedi had just healed and was on the FR2 or FR3 highway, yet ended up taking the quick way home.

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ArianSix wrote:

Perhaps, it's time for a Jedi's perspective on this as there are a good number of misleading comments going on...

First, let me just get this out of the way... The problem is not saber block, the problem is force run!

Force run is a major breaking issue. Why? Because it makes ranged players worthless and if we're gonna die we can just hit the turbo button and run away (man are my BH friends always complaining about turbo right before the kill).

Force run even sucks for Jedi too! We can't even kill each other because when one's about to go down he runs off with FR3. Sure we can hit FR3 to follow but then we do no damage so there's no kill in that anyways.

So now, why am I saying block is not the problem?

Well, I don't have FR. I dropped FR3 (and all FR for that matter) because I decided that it was sucking up too many skill points. In the end, I'd rather have a better combat template and stay and die, then have to run off like a pansy all the time. It's only death and it's more fun to go down fighting.

Anyways, back on topic... I dueled my MR friend twice yesterday. The first time I killed him really really fast, but had to use up my burstrun. The second time was much more interesting. Without burstrun, he was kiting the living sin out of me. Jedi have 30m max range, he was just making sure to stay at 50m+. It was embarassing.

I'm not sure how that duel would have ended. I was running after him like a maniac, wasting force healing (he has a nice T21) and waiting for the burstrun timer to kick off... but my mind buff died (only had 3 min left on it when we started) so I cancelled the duel (with no mind buff he'll win fast).

So, without forcerun, ranged actually do have a pretty decent chance of winning...

Now some points on Jedi facts so you get them straight...

1. Jedi are uber weak against melee. Especially stackers... most Jedi would rather run than stay and fight a stacker.

2. Jedi have no ranged or melee mitigation. Jedi is the only class without mitigation.

3. Jedi have no defenses. Without defender (waste of skill points) Jedi pretty much get hit by everything (except 85% block).

4. States transfer even if blocked. Probably a bug, but it hasn't been fixed in a year.

5. When Jedi are hit, they take all the damage.

(5) is my final point... and it's a *big* point. Ranged complain about saber block but they don't complain about 90% composite armor.

Did you know you're actually worse off fighting some dude with 90% armor than some Jedi with 85% block?

With armor you'll hit every time, but you lose 90% of the damage. So hit for 100 and you do 10 dmg. With Jedi, you'll miss 85% of the time, but when you hit for 100 you do 100 dmg.

If you average out armor vs saber block over time, you're actually doing 5% more damage to the Jedi that the dude in the uber armor.

Just some food for thought...

-- A6

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I think those are some very valid points.

I bet there is nothing more frustrating than having a 200k+ Bounty Hunter Mark run away like a scared little girl becuase he's a wimp. My policy has always been "If you are dumb enough to hit the terminals you'd better damn stay and fight instead of running away like a little girl" - At least that is what I am going to do if I ever wind up on the terminals when I get reach paddy. (Crosses fingers andhopes SOE will reduce thexp penalty once the CU kicks in)

In any case, 90% composite is just as gameplay ruining as 85% saberblock. In the times before the GCW update, people would frequently poach TEFed players that didn't have a PvP template - God knows I've been K/D'ed many times by TKAs that I couldn't hurt becuase of their armour while I was doing faction missions/faction POIs.

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jesstherifletozzer wrote:

Nice comments on why we hate jedis so much. I will say yes burstrun is a pain in the ass. But the biggest problem is that they only have to hit us 3 times with a 3k buff then we are toast. Thats stupid cause we have the 85% block as well. There is no way we will win a 1 and 1 fight and on sunrunner a good jedi even eat up to 3 good pvp players.

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As I mention in my post (above) the problem is really force run since it prevents you from kiting (which is the best ranged anti-Jedi tactic)... not the saber block.

Without force run, 1 MR is a good fight and 2 MR is probably going to end up with a dead Jedi (although he still has a chance to win).

Remember that you don't have to win the fight in 15 seconds, draw it out if that's what it takes to win. In my second MR duel, the guy lasted 3 minutes (and was winning) before I had to /end duel do to my mind buff dropping.

-- A6

Message Edited by ArianSix on 03-15-2005 06:47 AM

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Zhentarim wrote:

I think those are some very valid points.

I bet there is nothing more frustrating than having a 200k+ Bounty Hunter Mark run away like a scared little girl becuase he's a wimp.

Yeah it's very frustrating, I never really knew just how much time they waste on those hunts until a few of my PA mates started hunting recently.

I hate it when it happens to me too because it's not very often you get the chance to fight a Jedi one-on-one... we're supposed to get FRS from killing each other but because of this most Jedi have resorted to BH fight clubs.

My policy has always been "If you are dumb enough to hit the terminals you'd better damn stay and fight instead of running away like a little girl" - At least that is what I am going to do if I ever wind up on the terminals when I get reach paddy. (Crosses fingers andhopes SOE will reduce thexp penalty once the CU kicks in)

Well, I wouldn't really say "dumb enough" because some of us intentionally do actions that'll get us on the terminals because we don't really care. Ofcourse that's speaking of completed template Jedi who aren't very popular with BH who'd rather kill those lower level Jedi. Now those lower level Jedi... they really ought to be staying off the terminals...

In any case, 90% composite is just as gameplay ruining as 85% saberblock.

I disgree on this point because PvP is currently dominated by melee players. While 90% armor is bad, this isn't the whole of the problem... you're dealing with a player with 90% armor, damage mitigation, very high damage absorption (toughness), massive secondary defenses (i.e. dodge, counterattack), and high state defense (i.e. defense vs stun). Putting these together is what creates the problem we have today.

You see this in effect when you're blasting away at the guy for 30 minutes, you're hitting, and you're doing no damage because he regens faster than your attacks. Jedi are little better against these guys than you are one-on-one...

With Jedi, things are a little different because 85% saberblock is the whole of their ranged defense. There is no damage mitigation, damage absorption, secondary defenses, or state defenses... it's just saber block and nothing more.

As a whole, my completed Jedi has +20 ranged defense from the ranged defense force sensitive line... as we all know +20 is nothing in a land where everyone has more than 100 accurracy.

Based on my MR test duels, if the guy was lucky to catch me with buffs down (say he was a MR/BH) all he'd have to do is land one strafe2 to take me out in a single shot (he shot me for 800 PvP dmg with his T21) - this is because there is 100% damage transference when it lands.

In the times before the GCW update, people would frequently poach TEFed players that didn't have a PvP template - God knows I've been K/D'ed many times by TKAs that I couldn't hurt becuase of their armour while I was doing faction missions/faction POIs.

Haha, I was guilty of this one once upon a time a long while back... used to walk around Anchorhead popping people off with Head3. Eventually they'd send out a lynch mob and I'd pop them off with Strafe2... man was being a rifleman fun...

Now, I pretty much keep to myself... PvE is so much more rewarding and is much less griefy than PvP...

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-- A6

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MaxOutrider wrote:

As soon as you get a full buff, doctor, dancer and musician, then put on good composite armour, down brandy, canape and other foods,it is like activating God Mode.

There are also other things to make you more god-like as well. Do all the above and add Synth Steak (45% dmg reduction for 40 hits) andIntimidate (75% dmg reduction).

When I fought the Jedi the only reason why I lost was because I hit a river.

Yep, my last MR duel ended up with the kiting me so bad it was embarrassing... I just couldn't catch up with him.

But be aware, you're describing a Dark Jedi situation. Some DJ, like myself, gave up the forcerun line to pursue things like force powers (because it's more fun) which makes us kitable. Light Jedi (LJ) are more likely than DJ to get force run which makes them impossible to kite.

She is Master Swords, Master Pikes and and TKA. She downs all these different foods and drinks and is always fully buffed (doc, dance, music).

As a Jedi do you know what I do when I come up aganist someone with this template? I try to run... run as fast and as far as I can go! Beating this is impossible unless you have a group of Jedi or you're a more skilled stacker.

She has an 80% energyresist composite (I get my composite from the same place)that has been sliced so dunno what it is now.

Sounds like a PvPer. Somehow I have a feeling she spent extra and picked up the 90% sliced composite.

We are both Rebels so we can only duel which means 75% of my attack is reduced

This is for all PvP. If any player attacks any other player (even in duels) their dmg is automatically decreased by 75%.

I did 6 damage to her health using straffe 2 and 69 damage to my mind

Same with Jedi. We hit stackers for 5 dmg and run out of force then die. This will change in the upcoming CURB in a few months as defense stacking will be eliminated.

If I had to chose between fighting a Jedi or fighting a fully armoured, fully buffed, food enhanced melee person I would take the Jedi.

Haha me too, at least with Jedi you have a chance to win!

The ONLY problem I have with Jedi is their numbers.

SOE's fault. They changed the unlock system to something horribly easy, yet time consuming instead of making it a harder system to unlock in.

There are few people with uber armour and uber weapons

I beg to differ on this. 90% composite is very common in PvP and competition has driven the prices down very cheap (about 1.2M for a 4 piece cheater set).

Legendary weapons now last forever when applied with an Anti-Decay Kit so they're not dropping out of circulation.

Krayt weapons are no longer uncommon and are affordable by those who cannot afford a Legendary (my buddy finished making my Krayt T21 yesterday).

Uber pikes and uber dot (fire, poison, disease) weapons are all over the place - at least on Bloodfin where everyone is a PvP junky.

but there are lots of Jedi that are effectively uber armour/uber weapon people.

Clarification: Jedi can't wear armor or personal shield generators.

Then came in2 Dark Jedi Knightsand the Rebels were pwned despite outnumbering the Imperials about 2-3 to 1. All it took were 2 Dark Jedi Knights.

Jedi have a very specific role in combat and these guys worked it perfectly. Jedi can't *take* damage, but they can really dish it out. What they did was they kept the other guys busy so the Jedi can run around dishing out dmg without getting attacked back.

This was perfect exectution. Had they just sent the Jedi in alone, the Jedi would have been slaughtered.

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-- A6