Rifleman Archive
Thread: Republic Blaster Better range than a rifle
But while I agree that this pistol should not be like this, my point is that since it does not hurt me as a rifleman at all, I would not cry nerf on it.
CaLVines wrote:
Waste, I completely agree with you on that. A Pistol should not have a modifier like this. And certainly not while we have negative modifiers at max range.
But while I agree that this pistol should not be like this, my point is that since it does not hurt me as a rifleman at all, I would not cry nerf on it.
It doesn't hurt us directly maybe. But it does so indirectly. The appeal of the rifle was it's advantage at longer range. This is why I went Riflemen. I have Pistols IV from the Marksman tree. Why? For short range I use a FWG. Because of how inaccurate the Rifle is at short range (for non-Masters at least) it is advantageous for me to do so. So a Pistoleer the opposite is true. For long range it should be adventagous for them to switch to a rifle. The Blaster negates that. It's actually more advantageous to stay with the pistol. Considering how the mod is at max range, there is an even more reduced reason to use a rifle or go Rifleman.
The Rifleman had a number of advantages. They were
1) Hits an Unhealable Pool - Mind : This was one fo the reasons stated for our high HAM costs and our 2.5X melee penalty. Mind is now both buffable and healable. So this caveat is no longer valid. Creature warping still occurs.
2) Range Acuuracy : Better accuracy at longer ranges. Though the tests by Noules00 indicates that this isn't that great. The Blaster further intrudes on this. The only Rifle MORE accurate at rifle range than the Blaster is the T21. I've also seen some suggestions that accuracy caps at 95%. Hope someone tests this as this would mean that all our added accuracy bonuses and aim aren't nearly as good as they look when we are using our weapons, as intended, at long range. If this cap is in place then a Master Riflemen at ideal range has absolutely no need for Aim since Aim adds to accuracy that will cap at 95% anyways and would only slow down the shooting. If my understanding of Aim is correct of course.
3) AoE attacks: These seem to work though as has been mentioned there is some redundency. Flushing Shot and Startle Shot specificaly.
4) Firing from Concealment : Conceal and Surprise shot. Conceal works great now with the auto-detect BAF changes. Surprise Shot is still broken though.
Those are the Riflemen advantages as I see them presently. By giving the Blaster a +0 at max range they reduce one of our four advantages. I have a problem with how they do weapon accuracy mods already. I see no reason my Laser Rifle with an ideal range of 60m drops 71 points in accuracy for 4m (12 feet).
I'd much rather see them just list an ideal range for each weapon. Then have accuracy drop by a set amount per 5 or 10m from ideal. Make it a constant curve. You would need less info on each weapon description (only ideal range and the drop rate as opposed to the current min/ideal/max). It makes more sense than the current system and would keep each weapon types advantage at the range they were made for. So I see it as hurting the Riflemen. Though indirectly since it reduces one of our advantages. That's my opinion of course.
ya know what? as master rifle/master marksman i do a LOT of duels at under 25m. (rarely do i duel at 30m, for the simple fact of giving a pistoleer/bounty hunter/commando a chance! -the only scary one is TKA) anyways, i can honestly say i have no problems hitting targets at 16m, while moving, with a jawa rifle. T21 will miss a little more often, but it's still pretty accurate.
i couldn't care less if the pistoleers are at all accurate at 64m with any gun. It's been my experience that we are accurate up close anyway. And i don't believe fora second that a pistoleer will out-hit me at 64m with the current modifiers. i rarely get hit by anything at over 30m. Before and after the patch.
You guys should hit up some Master Pistoleer friends for some tests, and see for yourself. start at max range, start at mid range, and start at close range (16m). wear a little bit of armor (marauder at least) . I think you'll be surprised at how well you do.
First of all the stats on my republic are 0/-23/0 66-225damage ar1 and energy. the optiomal range is listed at 0m where it has the -23 accurasy so the further out you get with this weapon the more accurate it is. I belive that this is a bug and should be reversed. making the -23 come at 64m insted of 0 making it more accurate the closer you get but still fairley accurate throughout all the ranges. Also with this weapon i have no idea where the cert is noone does but more than likley all of you have the cert aswell. I baught this weapon because the damage range is aboput the same as a pre nerf fwg5 and it has ar1 the down side is that it is energy damage but that is covered by the ar1. this weapon is also alot slower than the fwg5 which it seemed to replace my fwg5 i had (all of these avrage non krate cause i am not a very ritch guy) a speed of 1.3 this weapon has a speed of 2.5 over a seccond slower. i feel this weapon is still buged and needs some stuff worked out with it.
1) i belive they should reverse the optiomal range from 0m to 64m making it the least accurate at 64m and the most accurate at point blank which makes sence and still makes it a fairly accurate cun at all ranges.
2) clearly define where the cert is and put it there insted of allowing everyone to have it (granted some people even master pistoleers dont even have the cert there seems to be no pattern to who gets the cert).
I belive if these two things are fixed this would not in no way nerf the weapon and noone will get upset. I for one dont like having to be at 64m to get the best accurasy from the weapon it make no since at all. I am not a master pistoleer as of yet but i will be but at novice pistoleer the only way to get positive assurasy with this weapon is to go to 64m and kneel or go prone.
I'm not saying the gun's accuracy modifiers shouldn't be looked at and possibly changed to be more effective at close range than long range if that is what the Dev's were intending in the first place -(wouldn't pistol users prefer this? why would they want to fight at 64m where we are definitely the most effective defensively and offensively?)
I'm just saying thatI think complaints of "pistoleers being too uber at 64m with this gun" is unfounded and presumptuous when the gun has only been in the game a matter of days.
based on what i mentioned at the start of this post - i would think Rifleman would be happy if pistoleers felt comfortable at 64m! It's where we work best and one pistol's stats are not going to change this so drastically that we will *gasp* lose to a pistoleer.
Besides that fact - pistoleers usually wear Composite armor, and rifleman use Jawa rifles against composite armor - and jawa rifles are most accurate at 40m - precisely where the Republic Blaster is at its worst!
(my humble opinion, i could be wrong on any given point). The whole thing still seems pretty well balanced to me, if not tipped in the rifleman's favor with this gun/class combination- pistoleers would probably benefit from a range fix to bring the gun in line with their play style/skills.
Rifleman shouldn't be the whiny ones to fix this gun, it should be the pistoleers themselves.
Jeisyn,
I have no fear of Pistoleers being Uber with this weapon. I just have a problem that it's base accuracy is better than rifles at rifle range. That's my only complaint about this weapon.
Also you're off on the 40m range idea. Apparently the Blaster has a base ideal of 0m. Meaning it gets better at range. So 40m isn't it's soft spot.
I also hope some Pistoleers will ask to have this fixed. Though that's like asking BH to police their own and leaving it to them to fix the Eyeshot, Uber Krayt Scatterpistol isse. Though I have more faith in Pistoleers in this regard than BH's.
UPDATE:
I should have word on the 64 Meters +0 tonight according to Greenmarine.
Well whatI was saying that it gets a -23 modifier at optiomal range but the optiomal range on the weapon is 0m. So basicaly it is the worst at 0m and the best at 64m. I am a pistoleer and whileI like the weaponI deffently want it to be best upclose and worse at a great distance. If they would just switch the optiomal range to 64m this would give the deseired result and it could leave the blaster at 0/-23/0, making it better the closer you get to the target, not the other way around (the way it is now).
Jeisyn wrote:
on the range of the RB: did i misunderstand Rogue's post? he mentioned his Republic blaster stats were 0/-23/0 - that would suggest a weakness at midrange, no?
plz forgive my argumentative state today, i'm just sick of ppl calling nerf/fix/adjust this balance that....
No problem with you being argumentative. It's been a civil discussion so far even though we may disagree.
The stats on weapons are listed as mod at min range / mod at idea / mod at max. So 0/-23/0 would mean it has +0 at min (0m) / -23 at ideal range ( which with the Blaster also happens to be 0m) / and +0 at 64m. Guess that is where your confusion on this comes from.
I'm also tired of the nerf calls. Would rather see them fix a number of major bugs. I would like to see the Blaster stats changed to be in line with a pistol since it is one. Though this would just be a tweak it would technically qualify as a nerf. I'd rather see this fixed sooner than rather for the following reason. If you let it slide for awhile then people will get use to it being that way. Once they did get around to changing it you will so a large number of people up in arms (pardon the pun) about it.
It's easier to change it now when there are fewer out there and people are just starting to use it. A good example of this would be our T21's. Got fixed then nerfed a day later. There was a big outcry about it but it would have been much worse the longer they let it go before doing it. Another example would be the FWG, Scatterpistol changes. They changed the schematic so they couldn't stack two power enhancing components. Look at the outcry about that compared to our T21's. It was much larger because the problem was around longer and people were use to that as the way things were.
/bow
I respectfullystand down from myposition on the subject.
(though, i still feel strongly that we shouldn't be whiny about anything at this point in time - and this pistol issue is something that I really don't think would cause us grief, as rifleman, as some people make it seem).
anyways, of course you're right on the range stats, i was reading them wrong 
/meidiot.
and yes, it would be logical to correct this with the solution Rogue had presented-
roguestrike wrote:
First of all the stats on my republic are 0/-23/0 66-225damage ar1 and energy
FYI that -23 is only with a Weapon scope on the pistol. It is even more inaccurate at point blank/ideal without a scope. Something under -30.
I've seen them with only -6. Don't know if it had a scope or not. The differences is probably materials and experimentation.
Dinian wrote:
roguestrike wrote:
First of all the stats on my republic are 0/-23/0 66-225damage ar1 and energy
FYI that -23 is only with a Weapon scope on the pistol. It is even more inaccurate at point blank/ideal without a scope. Something under -30.