Rifleman Archive
Thread: The best rifleman is a bounty hunter
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Hoabob wrote:
"That makes sense in a way because there are no 10k HAM creatures in the game. "
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Not a flame, Hoabob,just trying to be clear:
Why do you claim this? I have killed mountain squill on Tatooine that have 10K Ham.
I believe Moutain Dewbacks are pretty far up there... Am I missing something?
taco, go to your skill tree. look at the pre-req for bh. do you not see master marks man. we do have and know about rifle ham cost. but instead of blaming the bh for using his strengths to win in fight. blame your weaponsmith not the bh for the mind cost. what do you expect when a pistol has only 11/23/11 ham cost and 1.9 speed and a rifle with 12/15/34 and 4.8speed. blame yourself b/c you're ignorant enough to use that many specials to depleat your mind. their are other moves besides headshot 3 and from what i've read all the lvl3 shots are not worth it. if you don't know how to use your abilities correctly then i would have to speak on how clueless you are.
now if you think just because you're a certain rank you should be better than someone i'd have to call bs. i was whipping up on black belts when i was only a yellow. sure they had their fancy special moves, but what was all that worth if my natural ability nulled that. needless to say, i left that school and went to one near the projects where people were used to fighting.
so i still stand behind theopinion that just because you're a master, or because you've been doing something for x amount of time means nothing. it's all about how effectively you use what youknow. just b/c you think you know something doesn't mean you can execute it. get out in the real world and you'll find that out real quick.
Khan I assure you all the branches of the rifleman are related to combat with a rifle, they all use rifle exp and all revolve around the use of a rifle in combat situations. Just because our training goes much more in depth and has several different facets of rifle combat does not make any of them less valuable. As per your Commando and marksman comment, one is an elite proffession and the other is a base proffession, your comparing things that shouldn't be compared 4 skill boxes in an elite proffession do not equate to 4 in a base proffession.
How would two core classes help them? Are you listening at all? Then they would just be as good in one weapon as they are in another, not somehow better then any other combo like your magical We spend 200 skill points for it arguement. Now if they trained to pistoleer master then got another pistol line say from BH then I would expect them to be more powerful thena rifleman/carbine since they have more training with a pistol.
Bounty Hunter w BH Pistol 4 takes: 70k combat xp + 1.5 million weapon xp
Master Rifleman takes: 445k combat xp + 2.75 million weapon xp
Bounty Hunter w BH Pistol 4 takes 1/6th combat xp and 1/2 weapon xp as Master Rifleman
Bounty Hunter w BH Pistol 4 > Master Rifleman
That should just about cover it.
if you fight on a bh's terms, then yes, they will be better. but if you try to be a real rifleman and fight on your terms then you will dominate. did you read the thread on the imperial sniper that's taking out rebels with one shot and cannot be targeted by the rebs w/ pistols? that guys know his character's strengths and weaknesses. to be successful in a fight you need to control. don't take the fight to the ground if your a striker. don't go toe-to-toe with a boxer if you wrestle.
it's just plain idiotic the way people think thatno classes should have an upper hand in certain situations.
one question though, why is there no melee defense w/ a rifle. isn't that part of normal military training? using the butt of your rifle or a bayonette?
I am Bounty hunter and have no pistoleer skills..... Just letting you know this ahead of time.
The reason behind me coming to the rifleman forum is that I am looking to switch professions. I took up BH for the BH missions, that have been broke since day one. and the skill too use 3 weapons pretty darn well. LLC is crap, and a master carbineer or pistoleer that only takes 1 line of the BH tree will wipe the floor with me 7 times outa 10.
I do use eyeshot in faction battles and raids on enemy towns, but against a rifleman i win about 50% of the time, and I'm happy with that. on the other hand these are not against Master Rifleman! I say away from those as much as i can.
As a BH (and only BH) I think eyeshot is a great skill, something to look forward too after grinding out useless xp for some scout and weapon skills we never use again (rifle and survival that only gives you 2 new camp kits are the ones i wish i could drop)
Sorry got off the subject. My point is that BH is dabbled in like no other elite profession out there. CH was worse but with the changes they made (bad ones in my opinion) even Master critter handlers are dropping like flies. Its not the people that are going for Master BH you need to worry about, it is the Pistoleer/1 line BH pistol cookie cutter clones that spam eyeshot and cry when the lose the AoE knockdown that KNEW they should never had in the first place.
Anyway I may be a rifleman soon, pistol is the only line in the BH tree that is not broke or nerfed to hell, I refuse to become just another cardboard cut out of the class i hate so much.
JiveTimeMofo wrote:
taco, go to your skill tree. look at the pre-req for bh. do you not see master marks man. we do have and know about rifle ham cost. but instead of blaming the bh for using his strengths to win in fight. blame your weaponsmith not the bh for the mind cost. what do you expect when a pistol has only 11/23/11 ham cost and 1.9 speed and a rifle with 12/15/34 and 4.8speed. blame yourself b/c you're ignorant enough to use that many specials to depleat your mind. their are other moves besides headshot 3 and from what i've read all the lvl3 shots are not worth it. if you don't know how to use your abilities correctly then i would have to speak on how clueless you are.
Maybe your grasp of the subtle is lacking so I'll just come out and tell you. You are comming up with the most brutally obvious solutions ever. It's kind of akin to telling Bounty Hunters that they could more easily kill their marks if they used knockdowns.
Just for general education though, many Riflemen do prefer to use DLT20a Rifles as it helps keep the mind cost down. I'm sure you knew that being an expert on all things marksmen and all. I thank you for informing us that high HAM costs could be solved by having lower HAM costs.
Hoabob wrote:
I thank you for informing us that high HAM costs could be solved by having lower HAM costs.
Lol Hoabob, your posts are great.
Trying to make some BHs see reason is like banging your head against a brick wall.Most BHs wouldnot admit theywere overpowered even if they were destroying towns, just go and read the pit that is the BH forum.
The solution is simple: special move HAM costs for ALL classes should draw primarily from the pool that the move will damage. That is why we are forced to use so much mind for our shots. Causing the BHs to do the same for Eyeshot would be an appropriate balancing act, not a nerf.
Think about it: BH spams 2-3 Eyeshots that draw primarily from mind and then gets hit with a Headshot3. Not a one shot kill because we're overpowered -- a one shot kill because they didn't manage their stats properly. I think it would cause them to be more judicious in their selection of specials. I'd even be willing to overlook the speed differentials non-master Rifleman face if that sense of balance was installed.
Hoabob -
"Yah, you got us. There isn't a Riflemen around who has ever ever used Stat migration. In fact the game is already balanced, we just like to keep Q and Holo on their toes. You'd better go tell the Commandos the gig is up. They've been really getting into this balance thing. "
LMAO!
Hey, while we are on the subject of this whole eye shot thing, how would we feel if the eyeshot was a mind bleed+blind? Still has a good effect and can not be spammed once per second for uber leetness pwning?
And I would just like to say,(this is not directed to anyone in particular): I have seen more creative spellings of WHINER on these boards than any third grade special ed classroom could produce. I am by no means a spelling / grammar obsessive compulsor, but holy cow.
and, haobob, your guys solution to your problem lacks any kind of sense. you have a problem with your skills, so instead of fixing you, your suggestions are to break anohter classes skill.
JiveTimeMofo wrote:are you not aware of character stat migration? a lot of bh's have moved majority of their primary stats to the secondary, making regen much faster. if your specials take a lot of mind, then buff your mind. max the willpower. my mind heals 2x as fast as my action and my will power is the same as my const.
Would 1000 Mind, 500 Focus, 900 Willpower be enough migration for you? Because that's what my Zabrack Rifleman is at, and even with no armor I can't stay firing nearly as long as a Bounty Hunter. The problem is WHICH POOL IS DRAINED.
JiveTimeMofo wrote:if you've never played bh then you wouldn't know how our specials drain. but all of us, every single bh, is a master marksman. each of us has mindshot, headshot, and headshot 2 we know the drain w/ those shots. and with that we adapt.
This is why so many people have a problem with Bounty Hunters. I'd say "no offense" but I wouldn't mean it. You're not the only ones elite enough to know about secondary stats. And every Bounty Hunter I have talked to about this sort of debate figures that since he made it to Master Marksman he knows what it's like to play a Rifleman. Not true at all.
My experience working up the Marksman tree was completely different than my experience working from inside the Rifleman tree. The shots in Rifleman BRUTALIZE my mind pool, even with the absurd stats I have. And yes, I use power-ups on my rifles that give me a 30% reduction in Mind Drain. But compared to being able to just blast a Stim-Pack (Bounty Hunter leaves enough skill points for First Aid and Diagnostics III) and get all my Action/Health HAM back, even 900 Willpower is a joke.
All i can say for you people leveling up Rifleman complaining is to stick it out and get Strafe shot 2...i shoot for 400-500 damage at 80 mind cost every second ..sure its somewhat random but just like all un styled combat its about 75% chance to hit mind 20% chance action 5% mind(Guess but thats generally how you hit).
I havent found one person i cant kill 1 on 1 that doesnt use knockdowns or posture change bugs/exploits to win.
And this is only with a 269dmg 5.2 spd wookie bowcaster, i wont be surprised to 2 shot people when i have a T21, considering its barely slower than my bowcaster after a good speed slicing or a great damage slice i have no doubts i will own anybody i am against.
People every day ask me "how the hell are you doing so much damage to that Storm trooper" after some gimp sends 3 Storm troopers after somebody and i AE Strafe shot 2 them all down in5 shots....