Rifleman Archive

"Khan I assure you all the branches of the rifleman are related to combat with a rifle, they all use rifle exp and all revolve around the use of a rifle in combat situations. Just because our training goes much more in depth and has several different facets of rifle combat does not make any of them less valuable."

Yes, they should not be less valuable. But the fact remains that some of those branches have nothing to do with raw damage. Instead of trying to bring down another profession, why not find ways to improve the advantage those other Rifleman branches give you?

"As per your Commando and marksman comment, one is an elite proffession and the other is a base proffession, your comparing things that shouldn't be compared 4 skill boxes in an elite proffession do not equate to 4 in a base proffession."

Let's compare commando with rifleman then. Are you saying that commandos should be less proficient with their heavy weapon than a rifleman with their rifle, because flamethrower or acid rifleonly has one branch (4 boxes)associated with it?

I agree with you, 4 skill boxes in an elite profession does not equal to 4 in a base profession, because, supposedly, their value is less.Yet, they cost the same number of skill points per branch, andthe Hybrid Elite professions are forced to invest more than 70 skill points in such skills, more than half of which are superfluous to said Hybrid professions.

Riflemen only require, what, one branch in the Marksman tree, and that branch fully contributes to the relevant Elite profession. It's a fully streamlined and efficient path. They do not even require RWSA, even though that branch would be highly useful, I imagine.

No matter how you put it, I still believe that Hybrid Elite professions should have recompense for the ridiculous amount of skill points used up on fulfilling superfluous pre-reqs. Whether it's more powerful weapons, attacks or skill modifiers, or some combination thereof.

"How would two core classes help them? Are you listening at all? Then they would just be as good in one weapon as they are in another, not somehow better then any other combo like your magical We spend 200 skill points for it arguement. Now if they trained to pistoleer master then got another pistol line say from BH then I would expect them to be more powerful thena rifleman/carbine since they have more training with a pistol."

How would 2 core classes help, you ask? It helps by having a greater repertoire of skills, attacks, special abilities and weapon types at your disposal. You will be able to deal acid and heat damage,in addition tostun and colddamage that riflemen already have. yes, that's right, just bymastering2 Elite professions, you will be able to do more kinds of damage than a Commando. And you'd still have spent less skill points than one. You could also, for example, knockdown using a laser carbine first, then switch and headshot while the target is flailing on the ground.

You know what amazes me a bit...

I started out as a Rifleman/Medic Hybrid.

I dropped Rifleman (not because I disliked it) but because I decided to devote my character to support professions. Medic/Artisan/Chef.

Of course that means in PvP I usually die after healing up a few of my Imperial faction mates. But it's all part of the game.

But I digress...

The interesting part I discovered while pursuing the line of a Chef was the buffs our food can give. Now I knew about some of them prior, but not all the abilities or applications.

Chefs it seems have foods that buff mind, focus, willpower. I believe they even have a food/drink that buffs the mind regeneration rate.

Instead of constantly complaining, perhaps you should utilize the inter-class relationship that SWG attempts to promote.

Just as many people complain about Rifleman being to overpowered (often in PvP) due to -unhealable- Mind damage. How many times have I heard cries for "Nerf Rifleman - they are too powerful".

Maybe everyone should just make friends with a Chef... it's probably one of the most useful and often ignored classes in the game.

Yes, I know it doesn't change the cost of your specials (My former specials) but it does show you that there are options out there to enhance those parts of your class that you feel are your weakness.

Lionsden I am a rifleman and a Chef, our buffs to mind are sad and paltry and barely last. The benefits of a muon gold far outweigh ANYTHING a chef makes. If they fix chef I would agree with you.

" But the fact remains that some of those branches have nothing to do with raw damage."

Raw damage isn't the only important thing in life.

"Are you saying that commandos should be less proficient with their heavy weapon than a rifleman with their rifle, because flamethrower or acid rifleonly has one branch (4 boxes)associated with it?"

Yes, they have the bonus of being able to target more weaknesses with a variety of weapon types that fit more situations.

"Yet, they cost the same number of skill points per branch, andthe Hybrid Elite professions are forced to invest more than 70 skill points in such skills, more than half of which are superfluous to said Hybrid professions."

So what?

"I still believe that Hybrid Elite professions should have recompense for the ridiculous amount of skill points used up on fulfilling superfluous pre-reqs."

You are already recompensated by the bonuses in the boxes when you get them, if you feel they are superflous then you won't utilize them, just because you fail to use them does not mean they are not there.

"How would 2 core classes help, you ask? ...."

Your simply saying that using skills together allows for greater flexibility. How does this matter with anything, I actually kind of got lost when you wandered off into the "mastering two core classes would be overpowering then" as if I was suggesting we change the current system. All I want is a broken skill in the BH tree fixed.

Trapping hardly contributes to a BH's abilities however, since trapping in the Scout tree doesn't work on bounties (humanoid NPCs). And an elite hybrid BH or commando using a rifle or carbine with marksman skills is rather... feeble, no matter how flexible it may seem. At Elite profession levels, the novice professions hardly matter much anymore.

Sure I could whip out my Laser Rifle and plink away with headshot2, but what's that compared to a T21 and headshot3? I'd rather forego the 20 points (one branch plus Master Marksman), and sink it into the Elite profession that I qualify for (6 points for Novice Rifleman/Carb/Pistoleer, and 14 leftover for 2/1 distribution). If I give up 2 branches in Marksman, that's 34 points, not 20 points.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the issue of whether the pre-reqs for Elite Hybrids are superfluous or not. I think they do not contribute significantly enough to be counted as a benefit, you think they do. *shrug*

I'd actually prefer to negate eye-shot by making pistols ineffective at rifle ranges. Especially for the BH's favourite weapon, the Scatter Pistol. That should be missing 80% (for a Master) at carbine ranges even.

But the Launcher Pistol ought to be effective up to carbine ranges, though. Ok, maybe I'm a tad biased.

Taking mind pool to deal mind damage wont break your skill. Riflemen have been dealing with this problem since release and we did it even without weaponsmiths who could decrease HAM costs. If Riflemen can live without being able to spam unhealable damage I'm sure the Bounty Hunter community can find a way around it too.

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JiveTimeMofo wrote:

...snipity snip...

is there not a class filled with adults that actually like what they do and not stop so much to complain about what others do.

...snip again...

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Sorry I have to reply to this...

"Yes? And what's your speed between shots?. He was a novice BH, not a master. You aren't firing shots like that once per second as a novice rifleman, I guarentee you that."

His TITLE said Novice BH. I am also a 'Novice BH'. You can't see that I have Pistol/Carbine/LLC4 and Investigation 3 if I do. All you see is NOVICE. Just because it says Novice BH doesn't make him a Novice BH (Eye Shot is 2 boxes up Pistol btw, so he wasn't a brand new BH:/)

Also when I PvP I use the title Novice Medic, so when you come charge me as a TKA thinking you are gonna totally own me I whip out my Scatter and pop you with an Eye Shot, Torso Shot, Bleeding Shot, and Health Shot 1. Switch to my Laser Carb and fire an Action Shot1, Leg Shot1, Confusion Shot, and Fire Knockdown. I'm low on HAM after all of this and you have a mind bleed, an action bleed, a health bleed, a fire bleed, you are dizzy, you are blind, you are stunned, and you are still nowhere near me since I'm running away from you. Then I heal myself and you're bleeding to death and running away from me because you won't be able to close on me before my bleeds kill you.

Don't b!tch about a BH getting a Pistol move that damages the mind, go post on my thread in the Discussion forums asking them to fix range modifiers. I should be able to use that pistol to do that damage and target that pool, but it should only work from 15-20-25m away. It should miss 95% of the time from 60m+. The same way you're rifle should miss 95% of the time from less than 10m. If they fixed the distance mods PvP would be a totally different game. :\

Certain classes should be handicapped in PvP, while others are handicapped in PvE, and this is fine. Do you honestly think anyone other than a jedi could've hoped to beat Jango Fett (unless it was with a completely lucky shot -Han Solo-Boba Fett-) ? I mean BH should definately have an advantage in PvP as they were the most feared fighters in the galaxy, other than Jedi of course. Anyways if anything needs to be fixed i guess it would be the difficulty of reaching BH status, therefore making it more difficult for an inherently superior class to obtain that rating. And if this never happens so be it, i post this as a rifleman myself 2/1/2/2, and i have loads of fun with this game. So in conclusion i hate the constant complaining and i believe a well thought out e-mail to the devs or more polite approach is necessary by those who complain.

sorry for any i have offended

First of all wow, what a lot of great and reasonable ideas on both sides in this post. It is kind of refreshing that between the flaming there actually is some good content on this post.

Second, the HAM costs just don't feel right. Originally when I chose my race I chose it based that stat migration would make it acceptable for any race to be any class. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. The high HAM costs combined with the Stat Migration caps seem to be exactly 100% opposite to the truth. Now that I am a rifleman, I am very tempted to dump my poor Rodian to choose something more rifleman friendly. Especially when you add on top of that the overly encumbering and inefficient armor, those wookies just look better and better.

Third, there does appear to be a lot of balance between BH and Rifleman to be honest. Both seem to have a reasonable opportunity to kill one another. The BH may have more options and more ways to win, but that is the advantage to being a BH. However there is a big difference in one class having a mild advantage, and saying one class is inheritly better then another. IMHO, the ability of both sides to kill one another is balance. If all BH always beet all Rifleman all the time then there is a problem. Obviously the opposite of this would be true as well. Some of the battle should be determined by the skill of the person behind the keyboard. If the battle is only going to be fought based on your class, the game will get very boring, very fast.

In conclusion,there do need to be some adjustments made, however I would be very, very delicate in how I corrected it. You do not want to destroy the balance to make one class invincible or undefeatable by another.

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Khannivore wrote:

I'd actually prefer to negate eye-shot by making pistols ineffective at rifle ranges. Especially for the BH's favourite weapon, the Scatter Pistol. That should be missing 80% (for a Master) at carbine ranges even.

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This is where the problem is, a MASTER BH should have aadvantage over other classes(rifleman, pistoleer, carbineer)because they can fight well at any range. This then enables people who do not WANT to be BH (yes there are some of us who don't think we are Boba) to take a second combat class to master and compete. As it stands I would put my money on a BH with pistol 4 and master pistoleer over a Master BH.

The problem riflemen have is that BH get a free mind attack, they pay no penalty at all for it that I can see(except skillpoints). We pay massive mind costs, andour mind damage is used by the Devs to deflect other issues. Just go and read our weekly(lol?) issues.

You can't have one class being god in PvP in a MMOG, it just won't work, in 3 months time90% of PvPers will beBH.

If someone spends 250 skill points in multiple combat classes they should be more effective than a BH in combat. Because they have spent more skillpoints in COMBAT skills (Scout skills are NOT combat skills).
The problem is that there is little point in spending all your point in combat since guns work at any range and defences do not work very well on players because of the massive accuracy bonus they get.

I say again, if BH are PvP gods you will see 1000s of them running around in a few months when everyone else gives up hoping for balance.

I am not saying someone who is a master of one combat class should beat a Master BH. But someone who has spent 250 skillpoints on combat alone should be at least on even terms.

Let's put a bow on this:

1. Eyeshot should be moved up the BH pistol tree.

2. The primary HAM cost for Eyeshot should be from Mind not Action.

3. The HAM cost for Eyeshot should be equivalent to HS2 or HS3.

Close enough?