Rifleman Archive

Hey! I caught that sarcasm this time, Hoabob! LOL!

Correspondents are your friends. He's one of the only friends that we've got, and if you don't want him to just say "Screw it!" I'd say you should show him a little respect.

d00D i 4/\/\ 1337 |3|-| W|7|-| 5747 /\/\|9R47|07|\|.

I feel strangely enlightened.

A Bounty Hunter with 4 boxes in Pistol Spec has 76 skill points left over.

A Master Rifleman with Explorer 4 (arguably the most useful tree in Scout) has 129 skill pts left over.

After mastering Rifleman, you still have enough points to master Marksman, master the over-powered Pistoleer or the less-powerful Carbineer, AND get Exploration 4 to boot.

Tell me again, why, just using Rifleman (not even master yet), you should be able to singlehandedly defeat a BH reliably?

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Khannivore wrote:

A Bounty Hunter with 4 boxes in Pistol Spec has 76 skill points left over.

A Master Rifleman with Explorer 4 (arguably the most useful tree in Scout) has 129 skill pts left over.

After mastering Rifleman, you still have enough points to master Marksman, master the over-powered Pistoleer or the less-powerful Carbineer, AND get Exploration 4 to boot.

Tell me again, why, just using Rifleman (not even master yet), you should be able to singlehandedly defeat a BH reliably?

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This doesn't really make much sense - what skills exactly would you expect a rifleman to combine with rifle to be able to beat the BH? The skill point argument is only reasonable if, after both sides spend their 250, their core classes don't completely detemine the outcome.

Khan apparently you missed when it was explained over and over and over. Look at how many of your skill points go to combat oriented training, then look at a rifleman, youll notice we have many more then you, Now lets say someone masters Architect, Weaponsmith, and merchant and spends 250 skill points, how come I own them in pvp? Oh thats right.

The Rifleman profession is NOT just the end. There is a beginning, a middle and an end. We don't want to suffer in the beginning and middle just to get to the end.

I am going to bitch and whine my way up the Rifleman ladder until I get to the top but I want something done about the weakness of the lower end Rifleman.

A Master BH has a full marksman tree devoted to combat skills. On top of that, the BH tree is 3/4 combat.

A Master Rifleman has what... one full tree, plus the rifle branch of marksman, and maybe RWSA.

The BH still comes out having more skill points invested in combat skills. And that comparison is of course ignoring the fact that at least half the scout pre-req is utterly useless to the BH, whereas other combat elite classes do not have to waste points onredundant skills; all except the commando, that is.

Khan I meant combat skills RELATED to the weapon your wielding, our entire class is dedicated to combat with one weapon, your class dedicates a branch. I could be the worlds greatest fencer but if you put a pistol in my hands im gonna be helpless against a soldier with his weapon of choice. Lightning cannons and carbines aren't exactly relevant to pistols. Same with the rifle and carbine in marksman. Try counting again.

Well if you want to break it down like that, one branch in the Rifleman tree is related to crawling and concealment, not shooting a rifle better. Another branch is related only to defense.

Really, if you want to disregard all the skills required in obtaining a class, and only count the skills related specifically to a weapon, then who would want to be an elite hybrid combat class? Going by what you say, commandos shouldn't be any better with their heavy weapons than a novice marksman with a rifle/carbine/pistol, since they only have 4 boxes invested in flamethrower/acid rifle.

If, by virtue of your argument, master riflemen are as powerful as master BH or master commando, then master carbineers and master pistoleers should be as well. In that case, everyone is going to be master marksman + 2 elite professions, take your pick, rifleman, carbineer or pistoleer. Why bother with diluting your skills with pre-req professions that are superfluous?

BTW, I'm nota BH. I'm that other "elite hybrid" combat profession.

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AldeonAvardulin wrote:
Those are true damages, with Strafe Shot 2. Without a power up, I do 350-600, with a power up I do 400-700.

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Thank you for totally not paying attention to what we are saying.

We are not comparing a master rifleman to a master bounty hunter.

We are comparing a novice rifleman with a few skill boxes to a novice bounty hunter with a few skill boxes, and the BH is the better rifleman.

Also, your Strafe Shot 2 is damaging random pools, which means it's no problem for a buffed character, especially if he's also a medic or has a medic around.

You cannout outheal eyeshot.

Even if you tried to counter eyeshot with headshot3, eyeshot uses action to fire, headshot3 uses mind pool. Toe to toe, I think there's a question about whether the rifleman would beat the bounty hunter even there. Shoot the BH for 300, shoot yourself for 80. (Miss the BH, shoot yourself for 80 anyway.) You're playing right into his hands.

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JiveTimeMofo wrote:

wow, while you guys are complaining about our eyeshots we're complaining about getting taken out with 1 shot from you guys!

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Well, as you so eloquently put it, "it's what we specialize in."

My issue is simple: BH's are able to do a nice amount of mind damage without the penalties usually associated with doing mind damage (I.E. Riflemen -- 2.5x melee damage taken, specials DRAIN a large amount of mind from shooter, slow refire rate until the silly speed bonus at master rifleman.)

Other than that, I am having fun with the rifleman class. It's not what I thought it would be when I picked it up, but I adapted and am enjoying myself.

"We are not comparing a master rifleman to a master bounty hunter."

Point: Pecos

"We are comparing a novice rifleman with a few skill boxes to a novice bounty hunter with a few skill boxes, and the BH is the better rifleman."

Point: Pecos (although id like to point out that a BH with 4 boxes in pistol is better than a rifleman with 15 boxes, not just a few)

"Also, your Strafe Shot 2 is damaging random pools, which means it's no problem for a buffed character, especially if he's also a medic or has a medic around."

Point: Pecos (as a doctor/rifleman I can heal for 800 health/action and buff for 2000 to action or health)

"You cannout outheal eyeshot."

Point: Pecos

"Even if you tried to counter eyeshot with headshot3, eyeshot uses action to fire, headshot3 uses mind pool. Toe to toe, I think there's a question about whether the rifleman would beat the bounty hunter even there. Shoot the BH for 300, shoot yourself for 80. (Miss the BH, shoot yourself for 80 anyway.) You're playing right into his hands."

Point: Pecos

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Pecos: 4
Aldeon: 0

Owned!