Rifleman Archive
Thread: StartleShot1/2
Waste93 wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
I think I have to agree with all of that. Blind would not be overpowering, but could still make the skill useful. Perhaps a single-target Blind for Startle1 and an AoE Blind for Startle2?Maybe that AoE Blind is asking a bit much(or maybe not), but it's an idea.Also, we still lack any single-target, random HAM, high damage shot. Currently, Surpriseshot is the winner there with 3x damage(correct me if mistaken as it's not quite commonly used). Speaking of which, shall we discuss alternatives for Surpriseshot here too?
I've got an idea for SurpriseShot. Looking at moving it to Concealment IV and making it as you state, a high damage, long delay single target attack.
I'll be going back over the older post about this to to look for ideas. But also wanted to post a fresh one to see if we got any new ideas.
I'm not inclined to ask to give it a state effect we don't already have as I don't want to infringe on other professions abilities to do state effects.
Maybe at the minimum to switch it from Posture Up to Posture Down and flipping it in Counter-Sniping with FlushingShot1/2 since it wouldn't have an effect also. Just throwing ideas out.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-15-2004 01:54 PM
Because we have a single target and Area Dizzy, they will never give us a posture down, in my opinion. Dizzy + Posture downequals a possibleFish-flop KD. Add to that an area Posture Down for Startleshot2, and not only would we infringe on the Carbineer ability to do area KDs, but can you imagine the outcries if we could dizzy/.kd whole groups of people with a Flurryshot2 followed by an area Posture down and then followup spamming Strafeshot2? I do not believe it will ever happen.
Adding additional state changes would add to the nerfage cries and weaken our arguments against them. The reason we get high damage/high speed is that we have no KD and no state changes to speak of. If we got either of those two things, then the cries to reduce our damage and speed would be on better footing.
Someone mentioned the idea of adding a status change effect that would clear their combat queue. If there was notimer on this, we could keep someone from shooting anything but autofire. That would never fly. If there was a timer, then the queue would clear, they would keep autofiring, and the reprieve from specials would only last a second or two at most because all they would have to do is continue pressing the key for their favorite special or macro, meaning for most people this would have about the same effect as if they missed a shot. It is a clever idea, but I do not think it would have much benefit.
Personally, I like the idea someone mentioned of a knockback, something that can be used to stop our opponents in their tracks for a second or two (after all, they are startled). It would not prevent attacks, it would just be something to give us a chance to get an extra step or two on them. It would, of course, have to be on a timer like the posture changes. However, it would be an interesting option.
But, frankly, I think the easier thing to ask for would be the following:
1. Increase the damage slightly of Surpriseshot (3.5 instead of 3.0), make it work like Concealshot in that it does not cause an aggro, but fix it sothat it can only be used while in cover like it is supposed to work. Thus, you can use Concealshot and have more freedom of movment, or you can use Startleshot to get more damage, but only if you are in cover.
2. Leave Startleshot1 as a posture up shot, but give it 2.5x damage (instead of 2.0) to make the trade off between Flushingshot1 and Startleshot1 be that Flushingshot1 does stun but Startleshot1 does more damage.
3. Leave Startleshot2 as a posture up shot, but make it single target. You could alternatively give it a slight boost in damage (maybe 4.5x instead of 4.0x).
This would mean, at lower levels, (i.e., no Area attacks), you could hit them with Flushingshot1 to stun them then switch to Startleshot1 to do more damage. While doing single target attacks, once you get to Startleshot2, you would still stun them with Flushingshot1, but then switch to Startleshot2 to do a much higher single target damage. If you want to do area effect, then you would just start with Flushingshot2 and continue using it unless you have Strafeshot2 (and are near the speed cap). Of course, at anytime, a Flurryshot1 or 2 as appropriate could be thrown in.
Those are moy thoughts.
MobA **edit**s his pants.
MobB runs away.
MobC runs away.
But seriously, why do we need to hang onto the stupid name if we're changing all the coding. Why not give us a good shot and replace startle with it. Give us a high dmg, high accuracy, high delay Precision Shot. Give like a 50-75% bonus to your hitroll, a 5x delay, 10x dmg range. Schoolbook Depository style sniping. Maybe have a 1 in 1000 chance of landing a Magic Bullet shot.
Hmm, I wasn't aware Stun affected state defenses. In that case, maybe a root or a slow - slow their movement for 5 sec on a 30 sec timer, or somesuch. The Advanced Aim suggestion is a really good one, too.
Waste93 wrote:
Stun already lowers the targets defenses including those to state effects. Which is why FlushingShot1/2 is better than StartleShot1/2.
PokOgoota wrote:
Hmm, I wasn't aware Stun affected state defenses. In that case, maybe a root or a slow - slow their movement for 5 sec on a 30 sec timer, or somesuch. The Advanced Aim suggestion is a really good one, too.
Waste93 wrote:
Stun already lowers the targets defenses including those to state effects. Which is why FlushingShot1/2 is better than StartleShot1/2.
I like Pok's idea.
Give Startle Shot a Snare like effect(From EQ). Startle Shot should have a chance to lower your enemy's movement rate by a 1/3 for 10 seconds. That would be good for PVE because it would help us kite and in PVP it would be useful also(When buffs are nerfed and people cant just COB infinately).
-If they really want us to be prone all the time, they could beef up the snare effect to a reduction of 3/4'ths and 30 second duration
Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 08-18-2004 11:12 AM
i think the first question should be wether that is possible in pvp... lag.. warping etc.. =/
Waste93 wrote:
I'm liking the idea of having it slow the target. Question is does that unfairly infringe on Scout/Ranger traps that do the same?
Also what would the difference be between StartleShot1 and StartleShot2? Making an AoE slow attack could be a bit much. Either way it would also have to be on a timer.
Ivon wrote:
i think the first question should be wether that is possible in pvp... lag.. warping etc.. =/
I would assume so. The only reason it can't be done right now is that traps don't work on NPC's and PC's.
But if there is the ability to slow creatures, there is probably some flag that makes NPC/PC's immune to traps that they could turn off. Not a programmer so just guessing here.
As for lag/warping. It also happens in PvE and the traps still work and cause this effect there.
Waste93 wrote:
Ivon wrote:
i think the first question should be wether that is possible in pvp... lag.. warping etc.. =/
I would assume so. The only reason it can't be done right now is that traps don't work on NPC's and PC's.
But if there is the ability to slow creatures, there is probably some flag that makes NPC/PC's immune to traps that they could turn off. Not a programmer so just guessing here.
As for lag/warping. It also happens in PvE and the traps still work and cause this effect there.
though i do think this goes more into the scout/ranger area, and they NEED some love.