Rifleman Archive
Thread: StartleShot1/2
PyscoJuggalo
Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:39 pm
#14
There was an idea in the old thread where (Wayne or Fred, can't remember which get their posts confused...... dammed alcohol) suggested that Startle should be a shot that has a chance to clear your enemies' combat que. That was a cool Idea and think we should go for it.
It would be a unique new skill, instead of the same old State attacks, which would make us redundant with other professions(Something this game needs to start to get away from, redundant professions).
Waste93
Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:43 pm
#15
Yes. But what about PvE? We already have one PvP only ability. Would we want to add two more?
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
There was an idea in the old thread where (Wayne or Fred, can't remember which get their posts confused...... dammed alcohol) suggested that Startle should be a shot that has a chance to clear your enemies' combat que. That was a cool Idea and think we should go for it.
It would be a unique new skill, instead of the same old State attacks, which would make us redundant with other professions(Something this game needs to start to get away from, redundant professions).
PyscoJuggalo
Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:54 pm
#16
Waste93 wrote:
Yes. But what about PvE? We already have one PvP only ability. Would we want to add two more?
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
There was an idea in the old thread where (Wayne or Fred, can't remember which get their posts confused...... dammed alcohol) suggested that Startle should be a shot that has a chance to clear your enemies' combat que. That was a cool Idea and think we should go for it.
It would be a unique new skill, instead of the same old State attacks, which would make us redundant with other professions(Something this game needs to start to get away from, redundant professions).
Well really, Conceal shot is a PVE only ability also, but I see your point. It's just so hard coming up with a new idea and just giving us a new state Effect/KD/Delay would be ..... Meh
I don't know, I'll try to think of something else, we need to think "outside of the box" on this one.
Waste93
Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:07 pm
#18
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Well really, Conceal shot is a PVE only ability also, but I see your point. It's just so hard coming up with a new idea and just giving us a new state Effect/KD/Delay would be ..... Meh
I don't know, I'll try to think of something else, we need to think "outside of the box" on this one.
I know. I really don't want to add any states we don't already have. That isn't our strength. I don't want to infringe on other professions territory.
Remember though. If we can't think of a good fix for it, we can ask for it to be removed and replaced. 
So don't only think of ways to fix it. But also new skills that could replace it. One frequent request is a high damage single target attack. However I'm thinking of using that as a fix for SurpriseShot.
Moosemillion
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:25 am
#19
Replace startle 1 with an action pool specific attack called Leg Shot, and replace startle 2 with a health specific attack called body shot.
Devs won't even have to code much. Less work, less resources = less money and less time = better chance at getting it.
Yeah, or blind.
Moosemillion
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:30 am
#20
I cut and pasted this from the thread Guruweaver started......... relevant portion in blue...............
1) PVE vs PVP - I personally hunt creatures and NPCs about 99.7% of the time. It is my opinion, based on those I know and those I see, that this holds true for the majority of players. I do not know if there are any solid statistics, but I believe that PVP may make up 10% or less of total playtime across servers. Therefore I emplore any correspondant to express to the development team that no change should ever be made that takes away from the gameplay experience of PVE.
2) Range - Real rifles are not inaccurate at short range. Decreasing their accuracy at 5m is in my opinion is an error. However, at 0m I believe that accuracy should be near zero, but we should have something else to fall back on in these situations. Riflemen should also have greater range then any other profession. When prone or under take cover, a Novice Rifleman should extend maximum range to 70m, and at Master 85m. This will enablea great advantage to long range attacks, but as you would need to be prone and under cover (only to extend range) once your target closed the advantage would dissipate quickly. This range extension moves us closer to the envisiond Sniper class.
3) Melee - Riflemen should have one melee move, with two levels. This should take the form of some sort of rifle butt strike. It could only be used at point blank range. It should be a medium level attack at second level, something that is useful at defense but not something that anyone would use in PVP vs a TKM.
4) Weapons - Bowcasters should be leveled up for wookies, as it is one of the rare signature SW weapons in the game. I believe that the weapons that we have are appropriate and do not need any work. I would like to see the Berserker Rifle back in the game, and something that Rifleman can use. I also would like to see anything that is not useable by a Rifleman that has rifle in its name changed to another name.
5) Damage - Rifleman are not overpowered in my opinion, and there are numerous comprehensive analysis of this on these forums. In the combat revamp other professions will be equalized so that there is no percieved disparity. In terms of our mind attacks, the issue at hand is really that the mind pool is not currently healable, and that is only a short lived problem. Furthermore, Rifleman is not the only class with mind attacks.
6) Special Attacks - Suprise shot seems not to work well. Would prefer a Blind State Attack. Would also like to see a Health Attack and an Action Attack, much like TKM has. There is no reason why the highly accurate Rifleman should not be able to specifically target the head (mind) body (health) or legs (action). Would like a posture up and posture down attack.
7) Smugglers - While not immediately effecting Riflemen, it would be nice if a Master Smuggler could choose whether to do a speed slice or a damage slice for weapons (also choose for armor).
8) Speed - Rifles are not inherently slow weapons. Some of histories greatest marksman were able to get off 3 shots in a second or or so with manual loading rifles. Automatic rifles are capable of firing hundreds and hundreds of shots per second. In fact the fastest assault rifles are faster than any automatic pistol. There is no justification, in SW or in RL, for anyone to say that rifle speed should be capped at a slower speed than it currently is, and no evidence that a pistol should be faster than a rifle.
PsychoticChipmunk
Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:27 am
#21
Well I have an idea for a new skill but really it's just 1 shot instead of a 1 and 2 and I had figured it would work best in sniper 4 to counter snipershot's uselessness beyond PvP but it could possibly work as a replacement.
Advanced Aiming: This is a skill that can give 2 abilities in essence. First ability,it is simply a better version of /aim. A higher accuracy modifier for the next special attack that is performed so it is almost a garunteed hit at master, and a very good chance to hit stackers. The secondary ability,which is mutually exclusive from the first so this doesn't become an overpowering shot, allows us to target all pools without swapping weapons. Type in/macro /advanced aim leg and we would fire a normal shot that will hit the action bar.
Only being able to use a normal shot and not a special attack balances out us becoming a triple threat. Random HAM attacks have a 1 in 3 shot chance of hitting the pool we want. Well using advanced aiming takes up an attack move (just like /aim) as well as the next shot to be fired. Well this means that in 2 shots we deffinitely hit the pool we were shooting for instead of having to fire 3 to more or less have that happen.
Fred_Skinner
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:21 pm
#23
I like the chance to clear the combat queue. I don't think it was my idea though, so stop drinking. If it actually was then I will stop drinking.
Or perhaps add a delay in their attacks, and not have a new state change. That would keep the special, not have us too uber from itand still be usefull.
LiakyK
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:54 pm
#24
How about delay that is hit one someone who is in a burst run and it knocks them out of burst run, another option to delay melee fighters in case you have a few after you. Just a though.
PokOgoota
Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:04 pm
#25
I totally agree that new states or a posture down would be inappropriate - it'd cut into other professions' territory, as previously stated. Same goes for a posture down and a delay, and the limitation to PvP seems to be an effective counter to any kind of burst-run-affecting or queue-clearing idea.
One idea I had might be toreduce the damage of the attack, but make it reduce its targets defense vs. states by a fixed amount for afew seconds(say -10 per shot, to a max of -30 or so stacked total) so as to make other states stick better on the target.
Something like this would be useful and practical, wouldn't infringe on anyone else's turf, wound't be overpowering, and would tie in with the idea of a sudden volley of fire startling the target. It'd also fit with the Dev team's ideas of making combat more tactical - do you go for high-damage attacks, or do you focus on softening them up?
Just a suggestion, please feel free to pick holes.
Waste93
Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:15 pm
#26
Stun already lowers the targets defenses including those to state effects. Which is why FlushingShot1/2 is better than StartleShot1/2.
PokOgoota wrote:
I totally agree that new states or a posture down would be inappropriate - it'd cut into other professions' territory, as previously stated. Same goes for a posture down and a delay, and the limitation to PvP seems to be an effective counter to any kind of burst-run-affecting or queue-clearing idea.
One idea I had might be toreduce the damage of the attack, but make it reduce its targets defense vs. states by a fixed amount for afew seconds(say -10 per shot, to a max of -30 or so stacked total) so as to make other states stick better on the target.