Rifleman Archive
Thread: I swear if you guys mess around and get Strafe Shot 2 nerfed....
I, too, agree that about the Strafe2 issue, hence why I made the plee in the vote thread for all non-masters to abstain from voting on question 2 since they haven't actually had a chance to use Strafe2 and witness its power first hand.
Unlike the AR3 issue which would benefit the non-masters, any chance to Strafe2 affects masters only. Even knowing the modifier is not good enough, because you really have to have to knowledge of using it in order to understand how it works.
Personally, I'm very protective of Strafe2 because it is our only good AoE attack... the others (i.e. flurry2) are a joke and using it in a PvE setting has a very good tendancy to get you killed with its low damage multiplier. Against lone mobs and in PvP, however, Strafe2 is pricesless to say the least.
No flames intended, but one person said that Strafe2 should not be an AoE because he saw it as unfitting of rifles and more fitting of carbines. I disagree with this for 3 simple reasons...
1. Being that we don't know the devs thinking behind this, it is his oppinion that this is more fitting to carbines. It's the players that came up with the analogy that a carbine is equivalent to a sub-machine gun. If I remember correctly, I thought the official definition of a carbine was as a weapon that fired a solid projectile - this does not imply machine gun. Furthermore, carbines have full auto as a special... it's not a normal shot for that weapon... in general, it seems to function like any other gun out there. Personally, I see carbine as a go between between pistol and rifle... i.e. better range than a pistol, better accuracy at close range than a rifle.
2. Removing this AoE from us without removing it from all the other ranged classes is just another nerf. Last I checked, Riflemen, Pistoleers, Carbineers, and BHs all had AoE attacks. Taking it away from us while letting the rest of them have their AoEs doesn't help a Carbineer any (unless he's fighting a Master Rifleman without AoEs) so long as everyone else out there has them.
3. Perhaps it helps to envision AoEs different. I don't see an AoE as a magic laser beam that flier around hitting everyone. Likewise I don't see an AoE as a fully automatic blast of laser fire flying all over the place. AoEs are special moves... because of this, I see an AoE as someone pulling the trigger a bunch of times. In the case of Strafe2, I pretend my toon is pulling the trigger a bunch of times while waving the gun around (hence hitting all the stuff in a certain area). This seems to make sense, because it's not an AoE headshot... it's a bunch of people getting hit for different amounts of damage to different pools (showing randomality)... we can even hit people while missing others.
Simply put, when facing multiple aggresive target, the HAM:damage ratio is way bettter using Strafe2 as an AoE than it will be if you have to use it once on every target trying to kill you. Additionally, the speed to eradicate these targets is much faster with an AoE attack them going after them one at a time.
If people want a high damage, random pool, single target attack, fine... ask that it be added. But there's no reason to take a perfectly good move that we have now and get it nerfed in order to achieve this.
Instead of saying "Make Strafe2 non AoE", say "Give us ANOTHER attack that...".
Again, I'm guess that 99% of the people that voted are not masters and never used it. I beg, please abstain from commentind on Strafe2 as the proposals will result in a nerf, and not a "power upgrade" as intended.
Finally, if our speed cap is upped to 3.0s some day, you'll really regret the day you caused our best AoE attack to be thrown away.
-- A6
Oh, and for the record, I voted "yes" on the 100m thing, but noted that it's probably not going to happen because of what the devs said about range, scope, and tracking...
Personally, I'd be happy with 70-80m, but I think there was a reason the weaps were set to 64m.
This is a wish-list after all and we can always dream! 
-- A6
IdeaEve wrote:
I agree that the rifleman range should be increased, not to 100, but 80 or so...
I also think that there should be some way for a rifleman to heal his mind
I personally like the Idea of Going Prone and getting an Extra 20 meters on our shot if we go prone.
But according to Lobo the devs are sitting there playing "how can we screw the wannabe snipers" lol and he calls others dense
Lobo meet Kettle ... Kettle meet Lobo.
Why dont you take your happy ass and read the post where they specifically talk about this. They are looking at fixing our accuracy problems by adding more accuracy when prone, and defense. The funny thing, they said this would give Rifleman more of a "Sniper" role, lmao. Any Rifleman worth his Master rank knows that being prone is suicide 90% of the time. Ranges are to low, people have pets that can be on top of us in secounds, and you expect us to get into a prone position so I "feel" more like a sniper?
Yes I do not have faith in the Devs. They have proven they will make changes based on how much whining they get, not based off of balance. In this case it is the Rifleman crying about not being a Sniper, and they will end up giving Rifleman another Nerf.
SilverLobo wrote:
Why dont you take your happy ass and read the post where they specifically talk about this. They are looking at fixing our accuracy problems by adding more accuracy when prone, and defense. The funny thing, they said this would give Rifleman more of a "Sniper" role, lmao. Any Rifleman worth his Master rank knows that being prone is suicide 90% of the time. Ranges are to low, people have pets that can be on top of us in secounds, and you expect us to get into a prone position so I "feel" more like a sniper?
Yes I do not have faith in the Devs. They have proven they will make changes based on how much whining they get, not based off of balance. In this case it is the Rifleman crying about not being a Sniper, and they will end up giving Rifleman another Nerf.
are they taking any accuracy away from Kneeling or standing? If not i dont know what your complaining about.
if your talking about the Speed nerf ... I dont know why your attacking Novice riflemen for that. They had nothing to do with that ... They did not bring the report forward saying we shot to fast. So if you have anger over thatyou're channeling it in the wrong direction.
SilverLobo wrote:
Yes I do not have faith in the Devs. They have proven they will make changes based on how much whining they get, not based off of balance. In this case it is the Rifleman crying about not being a Sniper, and they will end up giving Rifleman another Nerf.
I will break it down to a point where you cant even misunderstand.
We have been saying for a long while that our accuracy when HAM use is looked at is way to low. We have shown that BH has a better chance of landing a Eyeshot at 64 meters, then we do using a T21 at that range. BUT what has happend is this has been drowned out by the Novice Rifleman asking to be a sniper. So what we get is a serious problem that needs to be looked at by the devs being lumped up with something the profession doesnt need. So to fix our accuracy problem the Devs say we need to be in a prone position, and it also is suppose to make us more like a sniper. See if the Novice Rifleman would not have been complaining day in and day out we wouldnt be having our accuracy improvement attached to being more like a "sniper". This will also alow the devs to ignore our insane mind use.
As for the speed, Pistoleers have been the big pushers of us getting hit with that. I will not throw that completely into the Novices lap. Again though because they continue to say we need to do more damage per hit, and I have read posts from Novices asking for more damage for slower attack speed, plays right into the hands of the Devs.
Are you starting to catch on?
Good ideas, things the devs should really look at are being completely overshadowed by insane ideas from the Rifleman that should be spending time asking questions, not telling us what the profession should be, or needs.
Novice Rifleman will be the end of what we now know as Rifleman, you all better be ready to pick a new profession or be ready to play a completely diffrent type of Rifleman. I know I will be picking the first option.
I agree with SilverLobo... Novice Rifleman are gonna blow this class for all of us. They have no idea what its like at the top. The x2.5 dmg is NOT the biggest issue. Eye shot from 60meters nonesense is my biggest complaint.
Fred! Bite your tongue man. We all know the x2.5 dmg sucks. But once you get to Master you kill most mobs before they hit you for insane dmg. Strafe shot 2 can save your butt quick.
I think Strafe2 is a Great ability. I am a master rifleman and i did vote yes for the Change ... why? i just dont feel that it fits with the whole rifleman style.
Do i use it a lot in PVP ... definately.
To me AOE attacks should be a Carbine thing where as riflemen focus on a Single target doing great ammount of damage to that single target.
Do i want it change? Depends on what the other ability is.
I agree with Lobo, master should only vote on that one.
But here is my question. If we are the big M-60 Mass Slaughters? WTH are carbineers? This is a problem because if the answer is, mass AOE damage, whats the diffrence between them and us. I really don't know.
I am inclined to agree with the masters we should be big bad azzed M-60 carryin wipe out a group of enemies MO-FO's. I mean thats the whole point of becoming master. Thats the whole point of having the 2.5 multiplyer, crappy close range accuracy, and huge HAM costs.
I agree with Lobo.
I canalready reach into the 4k damage rangewith a good Laser Rifle (AoE).Strafe Shot IIalready has a 5x damage modifiertacked onto it.To keep Riflemen viable we'd have to be doing ridiculous amounts of damage.
We're on the limit of the damage a ranged profession should do in a single hit. Much more and we'll be guaranteed a one shot against players andabout 3 - 4shots to take the largest mobs. I don't believe the game could ever properly balance that kind of damage from a Marksmen profession.
Ontop of that the trend in the Devs is to slow us down, we'll probably end up firing about once every 2 seconds at the Master level. So if I don't have AoE attacks and 5 kreetle attack me it would take me at least8 seconds to kill themand that's if I don't miss. Now immagine Scyks or Dewbacks doing that.
No Raloorn you want the Devs to change the class to your vision of the profession. I picked the profession for what it offered, not what I wanted it to offer, big F'n diffrence.
I will correct myself on one thing, I have said Novice Rifleman because of their ignorance are trying to change this profession into something it is not, I should have also said a select few Master Rifleman are also.
Basicly there our 2 diffrent thoughts on Rifleman. You have people like myself that understood what Rifleman was, not by looking at a title, but looking at what the profession could really do. Then you have the revisonist idiots that believe the profession should be set on its ear and changed to their view of what the profession should be.
My posts are not to change the minds of the revisonists, they have made a decission. My posts are to challenge these revisonists, and show everyone what they are trying to do. Understand these momo's are pretty much saying that what we know the Rifleman to be is not right and needs to be changed to their view of the profession. They think that the pro's and con's of the profession, the stuff we knew about and accepted when we decided to level up should be thrown away for a new set of rules. Sorry but I didnt hit Master Rifleman just so someone can cry and whine away my abilities to be replaced by ones they want.