Rifleman Archive
Thread: Suggestion Thread: How can we make ourselves seem like nukers without debalancing combat?
Cpl_Fisher
Tue May 17, 2005 4:48 pm
#27
First off let me explain what a rifleman is.
We are the killers.
The goal in hunting is to kill your target, and we are the ones who do that. Tanks, medical, croud controlers ect, there are all there to make our job easier to kill the enemy.
We are not snipers. While snipers usually use rifles, and rifleman is an important part of a sniper build, we can't be an effective sniper with jut rifleman. heck the longest recorded sniper kill, was done using a M-2 .50cal heavy machine gun set on single fire and a 20x scope.
next I will post specials, I'm breaking this up so lithium doesn't delete an hour of writing 
Cpl_Fisher
Tue May 17, 2005 4:58 pm
#28
our basic abilities...
we need a huge bump in accuracy. make it 70/30 rifle accuracy/gen ranged accuracy
speed needs to be bumped up by +30. this is because we need a fast shot on an otherwise slow weapon. relative speed on our existingspecials will stay the same however.
I'm going to eat now. will post more tonight
Issik
Tue May 17, 2005 6:45 pm
#29
I like the Kneeling idea for sniper shot. It makes it much more PvP effective.
Or maybe, have an increase in speed while kneeling, like rifle speed +20 while kneeling or prone or something. I've only had one chance to go prone in PvP, and it was effective because we outnumbered them 3:1.
Leave Conceal as a Prone only special, but move Sniper Shot to kneeling. Or, make it like the commando off-hand weapons, which make you kneel during the warm-up (At least pre-cu)
Or maybe, have an increase in speed while kneeling, like rifle speed +20 while kneeling or prone or something. I've only had one chance to go prone in PvP, and it was effective because we outnumbered them 3:1.
Leave Conceal as a Prone only special, but move Sniper Shot to kneeling. Or, make it like the commando off-hand weapons, which make you kneel during the warm-up (At least pre-cu)
PyscoJuggalo
Tue May 17, 2005 7:23 pm
#30
If you want to solo PVP, I don't think this profession's specials aloneis right for you.
Yes it's great to add 64m to BH or Carbineer or Pistoleer specials but our sniper specials will all have limited use in solo PVP (And maybe all PVP).
Why areour snipping specialsare limited in PVP?
1) Cover breaks at 20m. All PVP I have everseen is close and dirty. Cover would need to break at 5m instead, that is not gonna happen.
2) To be stationary is a death trap, 3 or more people will converge on that stationary person and endthat person'slife.
3) They are slow to use, combined with the other two pure Death sentance.
-I'm not saying they can't be used in PVP, hell in a huge melee, if you find some odd unlooked at corner in the outskirts of the battle, you might do really well. But as far as competing with the big solo PVP'ers, I suggest you pick up some BH or Carbine specials, spam KD as your first special, delay as you second, and finish em off.
Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 05-17-2005 10:24 PM
Cpl_Fisher
Tue May 17, 2005 7:46 pm
#31
My specials section
we need a snap shot.
-50% acuracy modifier
VERY fast recharge rate
med damage
the basic startle shots combat delay.
headshot is our main attack
This is what we do. It's our killing shot.just like all of our group memebers support us, all of our specials support our headshot. they set up this shot, which is what kills the enemy. We have to be able to sustain it for a while, That is our dinstinction from commando's. we are able to deal out a slightly less damage dps wise over the short term, but we are able to do it more prescisly, and over a longer period of time.
no accuracy modifiers
30% increase in damage
2/3 of current action drain
startle shot is working well imo
cover needs to work on time, everytime. EXCEPT on perfectly level surfaces like main street's on NPC cities.
group members don't break
conceal shot should work only with kinetic, or non visable (CO2) lasers. (the laser rifle)
needs to work on a system where your "visability" goes down over time, ifyou shoot, then wait awile, then shoot, move a bit, then shoot again, you can effectivly overcome a target, but it takes patience, and a bit of luck. creatures have an automatic chance of discovering you, depending on there relative creature level to you. if they are ven, you should have a 50% chance to beet them on your own, using conceal, given enough time. It's a very slow way to fight, and is the fundamentals of sniping.
kneecap shot should have a horrible accuracy penalty, like -75%. very high special cost to. Thisis a carbineers job, not ours, we can do it, but it takes a lot out of us, because we are being asked to do something outside of our specialty. (killing the bastage)
Snipershot needs to be reworked completely. First iff, this is a sniper's domain, rifleman can do it, but itsnot our job, its way beyond just a riflemans training. Master ranger should offset the action cost to be bearable,master CM the rooting effect, and a master crafting proffession should help offset the cost of the mind cost. To prevent it being overpowered, you should never be able to master rifleman, Ranger, and a crafting proffesion. You will have to deal with one of its penalties.
Master ranger's becuase of there physical conditioning should have a passive ability that cuts the action cost of a special by 50%. start at 5% at novice scout, and spread the skill out EQUALY amoung all boxes. This has the added benifit of it giving a much needed benifit to rangers.
Master crafters are smart people! they make intricate things that require lots of concentration that take a long time to finish. becuase of this, a master crafter has the ability to reduce any specials mind cost by 50%, scaled the same as rangers action cost. again, a little love for crafters.
Now for snipershots specs. takes double the current amount of time to set up, must be under cover. must have aim on. aim must not breeak cover, obviously. can't have more than 75 points of battle fatigue, you need a clear mind. must have less than 75 wounds, with a hurt body, you can't have a clear mind. it drains 50% of your action. 50% of your mind. it roots you to the spot for same duration as advanced stopping shot. at same CL level, it does massive damage, preferably a percentage, like 45%.
more tommorow, I need to help a noob tonight.
Message Edited by Cpl_Fisher on 05-17-2005 09:05 PM
Mythor
Tue May 17, 2005 8:31 pm
#32
There's no good reason for snipershot to require cover - prone is plenty. Cover is for conceal shot. Snipershot is not meant to be a "covert" attack, merely a (very) well aimed one.
All the other cripples on it sound good in theory, but in practice it'll just end up being unused. Noone wants to take other professions to make the skills from their prime profession worth using. If we have to be Ranger/Rifleman, or not take Rifleman, people are just going to not take Rifleman.
Another suggestion of my own:
Kneeling and prone need to be more than just a pre-requisite for executing an attack. There should be some advantage to (effectively) "rooting" yourself, rather than it just being a disadvantage due to no movement/slower movement.
I remember reading somewhere (possibly here on the Rifleman forums) that kneeling and potentially prone was supposed to result in a lowering of a ranged professions action costs. But I've seen no evidence of that in game.
Rather than a speed increase as was suggested further up, perhaps ranged professions (not just us) could get an accuracy boost for kneeling/prone as we used to do? A higher accuracy whilst kneeling or prone makes sense and is effectively counterable - opponents can also kneel/prone, or they can use your immobility to their advantage by closing the distance or widening the gap outside an opponents range.
Accuracy makes sense, and with the bonus to damage if your accuracy is above the opponents defense, this would make for a good, but not overpowered, addition?
All the other cripples on it sound good in theory, but in practice it'll just end up being unused. Noone wants to take other professions to make the skills from their prime profession worth using. If we have to be Ranger/Rifleman, or not take Rifleman, people are just going to not take Rifleman.
Another suggestion of my own:
Kneeling and prone need to be more than just a pre-requisite for executing an attack. There should be some advantage to (effectively) "rooting" yourself, rather than it just being a disadvantage due to no movement/slower movement.
I remember reading somewhere (possibly here on the Rifleman forums) that kneeling and potentially prone was supposed to result in a lowering of a ranged professions action costs. But I've seen no evidence of that in game.
Rather than a speed increase as was suggested further up, perhaps ranged professions (not just us) could get an accuracy boost for kneeling/prone as we used to do? A higher accuracy whilst kneeling or prone makes sense and is effectively counterable - opponents can also kneel/prone, or they can use your immobility to their advantage by closing the distance or widening the gap outside an opponents range.
Accuracy makes sense, and with the bonus to damage if your accuracy is above the opponents defense, this would make for a good, but not overpowered, addition?
VolvoSsixtyTsix
Wed May 18, 2005 12:13 am
#33
Dabble with BH and you are already FTW. Yes cover is broken, but 65 meter range makes up for it.
dkenobi
Wed May 18, 2005 10:00 am
#34
I havn't been able to tell if Warm-Up or Cool Down go by quicker with your progression through any profession tree, however this would be a nice addition if its not already in game.
Warmup for Sniper Shot, I visualize as the rifleman loading his round (old school rifles), taking aim, steadying his shot and adjusting where needed, and then executing. Of course, an amateur sniper could not do this as quick as a master rifleman, even though a master rifleman would still have to take a little time to warmup, s/he could still do it faster than an amateur.
Something else that just popped in my head: a meter for players to move around: to the left gives faster warmup and cool down but sacrafices accuracy to a large degree, to theright gains accuracy but warmups and cool downs take longer.
-llvllerlin
Mythor
Wed May 18, 2005 10:08 am
#35
That "meter" idea would make an interesting addition to our T-21 to differentiate it from the Advanced Laser Rifle. Trading off a little speed for a much more certain hit and potentially a little extra damage would be an interesting decision. 
Perhaps rather than affecting the windups and cooldowns, affect the base speed? More accuracy, but slower. Faster, but less accurate? That could also affect the windup/cooldowns if they are affected by weapon speed, or if they become so in future.
Perhaps rather than affecting the windups and cooldowns, affect the base speed? More accuracy, but slower. Faster, but less accurate? That could also affect the windup/cooldowns if they are affected by weapon speed, or if they become so in future.
TalKurgan
Wed May 18, 2005 1:43 pm
#36
Could we possibly put our heavy hitters like snipershot and headshot on different timers? That way, we could fire off a few heavy shots in quick succession for big front-loaded damage (upside of nuking), but then have to wait for them to reset, thus reducing our damage over time (downside of nuking). Now we're filling time with placed shots and some startle shots to buy some time until our nukes are ready again.
Ackehece
Wed May 18, 2005 4:31 pm
#37
TalKurgan wrote:
Could we possibly put our heavy hitters like snipershot and headshot on different timers? That way, we could fire off a few heavy shots in quick succession for big front-loaded damage (upside of nuking), but then have to wait for them to reset, thus reducing our damage over time (downside of nuking). Now we're filling time with placed shots and some startle shots to buy some time until our nukes are ready again.
good news for you then
snipershot is on a different timer then headshot
Demi_Wraith
Wed May 18, 2005 5:31 pm
#38
Ackehece wrote:
TalKurgan wrote:
Could we possibly put our heavy hitters like snipershot and headshot on different timers? That way, we could fire off a few heavy shots in quick succession for big front-loaded damage (upside of nuking), but then have to wait for them to reset, thus reducing our damage over time (downside of nuking). Now we're filling time with placed shots and some startle shots to buy some time until our nukes are ready again.
good news for you thensnipershot is on a different timer then headshot
You made me smile.
Mythor
Wed May 18, 2005 9:09 pm
#39
Most specials are on different timers, you just need to wait out the recycle time, which IS dependent upon weapon speed.
You can snipershot, then queue up improved underhand (BH), once that is executing you can queue Advanced Critical (BH), then move on to Rifleman's Headshot as your target is getting up from the knockdown. Queue a startleshot then and then the snipershot cooldown should be done so you can queue that, which will execute around the end of the startle delay timer.
You can snipershot, then queue up improved underhand (BH), once that is executing you can queue Advanced Critical (BH), then move on to Rifleman's Headshot as your target is getting up from the knockdown. Queue a startleshot then and then the snipershot cooldown should be done so you can queue that, which will execute around the end of the startle delay timer.