Rifleman Archive

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Roszce wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

• We are most definitely not going to recieve an AOE

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I'm not surprised we don't get CC, that what other profs are for, but this part surprised me, since nukers pretty much always get some AOE...

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the AOE nuker role was given to the commandos.

the general AOE role is carbineer

• higher damage vs longer delays on basic specials
  
  
  
  • suicidal if not grouped

I disagree with this statement. I have no problem whatsoever using Headshots or Overchargeshots solo. I always win my encounters, and thats vs yellow con CL 82 creatures (both NPCs & Creatures). M ost definately NOT suicidal. ALso in groups I found if a Rifleman leanrs how to time his shots, and what shots to use , he can avoid aggro (same concept is used in EQ for the 'nukers' there to avoid getting aggro). I dont consider us broke thus no fix required in this area.

• armor break built into our regular low damagespecials
  
  
  
  • ap3 anyone? it was debalanced in the previous system
    
  • commandos already are begging for this

Might be nice but I dont feel the need. My Tantel Recon armor is serving me quite well as it is

• Shorter timer on our snipershot
  
  
  
  • totally for this as our cooldown is to long I feel

I agree..takes too long

• conceal shot damage amped up and with a shorter delay
  
  
  
  • as well as this - both warm up and cool down could be shortened by 30%
    
  • this would allow 4 shots before aggro in pve

More damage - yes/ shorten warmup/cool down - yesmore shots before aggro - no (you are putting shots into a mob..it can tell when its getting shot for peteys sake!)

• Higher base damage on our weapons




• nice but a bad idea with cross cert'd weapons as everyone would use a rifle for everything thenjust fine as we are


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  • possible - maybe we are to early looking at this due to bugs?

I dont think base damage should be played with just yet. I think we are still seeing a lot of pre-CU weapons that didnt convert well. I am just now starting to see post-CU crafted weapons with higher base dmg than the pre-CU. I suggest folks look for a WS stocking newly crafted weapons and not old converted ones. (I just bought a new T21 last night with an sliced max damage of 1100 dmg, add a high power barrel and it goes into the 1300's and I have a modified attack speed of 1.9, gives me a a DPS of 450-something)..and I dont even have FS skills yet or armor attachments

As I posted in the other thread before seeing this one (oops!), I'd prefer to see us be a little less on the "nuke-y" side of things, and a bit more on the stealth-y side. Firing on targets from cover or prone from long-range whilst the target is engaged at shorter ranges (particularly melee) should generate significantly less "hate" than getting in something's face and lighting them up with a flamethrower, right?

Armour break is a powerful utility skill (Snipe something after it's been armour broken by a saber jedi - sweeeet!) so I'm not sure they'd give us that one, even though it would be a good complement.
If we did get it, I'd rather see it as just another "shot", so that we have to actively attempt to "break" a target's armour, rather than just being able to fire off other specials that might do other things. This would also have the benefit of allowing multi-class characters to use the skill with their own weaponry. Though I'd suggest it might still be an idea to put it in a couple of professions (BH & Commando at the least).

Snipershot I'd like to see have a much shorter recycle time - the current one is absurdly long, considering it's not a limitation of our weapons - we can fire other shots in the meantime - but it should then have a longer "windup" phase.

Concealshot needs to be more on par with Snipershot in terms of damage. Not equal, but there's quite a big gap at the moment, for no good reason I can see. Concealshot requires the Cover state before we can execute it. If we lose Cover during combat, we are unlikely to be given a chance to get back under. At the moment, Cover breaking is not a big deal, because we can just switch to Sniper shot and our other attacks, because most of them do more damage anyway.

I'm not sure about increasing weapon damage yet. We really need to get some experienced weaponsmiths input on that one, since it's hard to know just what kinds of weapons they'll be capable of turning out once they really get a handle on the new system.
So far, I've not seen any post-CR T-21s that are better than my pre-CR T-21, and certainly not better than some of the other pre-'s I've seen.
If the current figures are pretty much what we can expect, then yes we do need a damage increase - our weapon's should do significantly more "base" damage than a pistol, and a fair bit more than a carbine. Speed should, as a consequence, be lower, so that we concentrate more on hitting HARD, than FAST.


As per your last bit though, we really do need to have our biggest issue properly addressed - if we don't know WHY cover/conceal/sniper is failing, we can't properly address our concerns. If there's some really good reason it's failing that we haven't thought of, we deserve to know.
If it isn't failing for any good reason, then it just plain needs fixing ASAP. Cover/conceal/sniper is an integral part of how Rifleman are supposed to be playing now and while we're playable at present, it's more of a "make-do" solution.

Make certain riffles only certed to Master Riffle/Novice Riffle; then up the damage on them as compared to other riffles.

well me most certainly aren't Nukers that's for sure.

how bout another special that can be performed out of Cover? or do they actually plan on fixing Cover?

unless you dabble, Ranger has probably the most Restrictive specials. and still doesn't really outdamage anyone else to exponential degree.

• possible - maybe we are to early looking at this due to bugs"

I'm leaning towards this. I gave the CU some time, and I hated it at first, but now I think they did an excellent job. Somebody over at SOE loves Riflemen.

^^ Eh, too shallow? I haven't had such a frustarting time with Cover. I'm not so sure it's bugged, perhaps we haven't tried and tested it enough. You can't go prone and immediatley go into Cover. I find that you need to give it 5 or 10 seconds. And don't move the mouse at all while winding up the Cover. With groups, I usually go to the other side of the spawn/lair and get into cover there...still though...my guildmates/groupmates think they're cute "discovering" me, they do it on purpsoe half the times. Anyway, that doesn't matter much since I try to spam Sniper Shot and alternate between Startle and Head Shots.

As to the damages I agree with what one poster said, lets give the Weaponsmiths some time to craft new T21's and see how they work out for us. If a damage increase is needed, I'd say at most 10% across the board for Rifle attacks.

Message Edited by Elite_One on 05-17-2005 02:08 PM

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Elite_One wrote:

"just fine as we are

• possible - maybe we are to early looking at this due to bugs"

I'm leaning towards this. I gave the CU some time, and I hated it at first, but now I think they did an excellent job. Somebody over at SOE loves Riflemen.

^^ Eh, too shallow? I haven't had such a frustarting time with Cover. I'm not so sure it's bugged, perhaps we haven't tried and tested it enough. You can't go prone and immediatley go into Cover. I find that you need to give it 5 or 10 seconds. And don't move the mouse at all while winding up the Cover. With groups, I usually go to the other side of the spawn/lair and get into cover there...still though...my guildmates/groupmates think they're cute "discovering" me, they do it on purpsoe half the times. Anyway, that doesn't matter much since I try to spam Sniper Shot and alternate between Startle and Head Shots.

As to the damages I agree with what one poster said, lets give the Weaponsmiths some time to craft new T21's and see how they work out for us. If a damage increase is needed, I'd say at most 10% across the board for Rifle attacks.

Message Edited by Elite_One on 05-17-2005 02:08 PM

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Increase damage on T21

make berserker rifle a master level rifle

remove laser rifle from master (It dosent make since to have 2 energy weapons at master)

and make it equal to T21 but with kinetic damage

and all the other stuff fix LOS

fix action cost

fixkneecap shot

adjust timer on some of our warm up specials

In order to be a nuker we need to be able to do more dmg in each of our shots while either slowing our shots down or increasing our action costs.

We could also increase the dmg to our rilfes while slowing the attack speed down or the action cost on the rifles. This would allow other professions that have no rifle boxes to do more dmg than us with our rifles unless we only increase the dmg of our master only rifles.

I have seen the same complaints that the profession does not fit the role from pistoleer, and it is probably happening to melee professions too. Carbine isn't quite in the same boat because they are supposed to be a cross between pistol and rifle, and so far they have many of the advantages of both without many of the disadvantages, but even carbine has the same problem as us, just not as obvious. I see a few ways to fix this for each profession and maybe even help some of the other profs like ranger and squad leader at the same time.

1. Take general defense and offense mods and move a large portion of them into weapon specific mods such as riflespeed and pistol melee defense. Don't move it all, just enough to make it a noticable difference in accuracy and speed between a profession shooting its own weapon and one it is not master in. Keep the general mods with the professions like ranger, squad leader,Commando andBH to make them more attractive for all classes.

2. Move mods higher up into the trees and make master a worthwile box for each profession and give a special in each master box that reflects the role of the profession. Snipershot is a good example in rifle, but I was thinking more along the lines of a state each profession could put themselves in that would help one roll specifically while taking away from others. A good example of this would be Center of Being or Power Boost or Pistol Stances. COB could be moved to a master melee box of TKM and significantly increase defense while taking away from speed and accuracy. This would increase their effectiveness as a tank and reduce their effectiveness in other areas. A similar state for rifleman could be our aiming mod. Instead of lasting a couple shots it could put us into a meditative state that significantly increases our accuracy while taking away our riflespeed and movementspeed. BH which is a cross between tank and dmg dealer would keep pistol stances and while in that state have an increase in defense as well as accuracy (each about 1/2 of COB and Aim) while taking a negative modifier to weaponspeed and state effectiveness (meaning state effects don't work as well).

3. Make improved and advanced versions of the specials significantly more effective than the basic versions. This wouldn't work as well as the others since most people that dabble pick up an entire tree anyway.

4. Make master level weapons significantly better than non master cl54 weapons, and cl54 weapons better than cl30 and so on down the line. Right now all high level rifles and pistols and carbines are pretty much the same so any profession can pick up any weapon and do just as well as a master of that profession. Make the master rifles the highes dmg and the cl54 rifles a little below a master pistoleers pistol. Put the best weapons in the hands of the masters and make the master weapons better than any cl54 of any type. A pistol at master should still be faster and cost less action than a rifle at master but not have the range or the dmg of a rifle.

That is what I see can fix the problem, but normally with my ideas there are also things that would totaly ruin any balance that I just don't see so feel free to enlighten me. (btw, I like solution 2 the best)