CUEmu - Thread Posts

LaUltimaHora

Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 am

I'm all for "balancing" Rifleman, as long as it's done properly.

Give us a higher speed cap, 2 or 3, but then balance it with more damage, i'm cool with that.

Make us less accurate at short ranges(aren't we already?), no problems with that.

Take away the melee defence, that's fine, i really didn't understand why we had melee defence anyway, and it's probably the thing that brought us riflemen into disripute,with all the "def stackers" grabbing rifleman for the sole reason of more melee defence.

As for the crack about our HAM cost being nothing because we have brandy etc, can we please increase everyone else's HAM cost's to come in line with riflemen then? After all, you've got brandy and moun too. No other class HAS to use food/spice/buffs to last a fight EXCEPT riflemen, but do we call for our HAM costs to be decreased more in line with other classes? No, because we understand that for all our "benefits" there has to be some "penalties" as well.

But the one thing that stops all the professions being more "balanced" is range. 64m in this game is nothing. Pistols, carbines, flamers etc can all shoot out to that range with good accuracy, so where's the riflemens benefit of range? A melee class can cover that distance in no time with burst run or by using natural cover.

If riflemen were to have access to a range advantage, like the should, then yes, tune down our speed, reduce our accuracy close up, heck, maybe even tone down our damage. But since we fight at the same range as everyone else, why shouldn't we shoot as fast as them?

Damage. So many times this is brought up. I'm sorry,but have you people seen some of the obscene ammounts of damage some of these "krayt" pistols do? I mean, it's a bloody pistol for gods sake, not a hand cannon. Most of these pistols easily out damage anything i own, and whats the chances of me getting a good krayt T21? Next to none. But if i wanted a krayt pistol, piece of cake. Heck, they're so common they even sell them on vendors!!!

I'm sorry, but we as riflemen only achieve "power" when we hit master, yet pistol/carbineers are pretty powerful even at low lvls, AND without the need for buffs every time they fight.

I welcome the "def stacking" nerf, but to nerf riflemen with some of the things i've seen people talk about, nah. I even get people in game saying crap like "hehe, you'll be nerfed soon" and other pathetic remarks. Fact is I won't be nerfed, i'll just walk away from SWG. Changes are great if needed and applied properly, but nerfs to appease the simple minded vocal minority don't cut it with me.

beamstalk

Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:06 am

#28

Eaca, I couldn't have said it better. Also I am with the cancellations, I have been a rifleman from day 1, I remember waiting in line at the Big Fish shop for a laser rifle. I would like to think I have been through a lot with rifles, and also like to think I know a lot about rifles. I remember, and even remind myself with another character, of what it was like premaster with low speed. We are talking 2 to 4 seconds at least between shots, you barely could solo to get the xp needed for rifles, don't consider grouping you can't do enough damage in the short time of killing a creature to get xp, and PvP is laughable. Yet this is what we are suppose to be??? I can't believe that people would possibly conceive of Riflemen playing like this. It disgusts me so much I become speechless. So all you trolls that think pistols must always win go ahead flame me like you will, you are getting your way and frankly I don't give a **edit** anymore, Mythic can have my money they want less of it anyways, and I will wait for Warhammer Online to come out.

Kel-jun
Master Rifleman
Dark Blade - PA
Flurry
Thrawn caught his eye; and to Pellaeon's astonishment, the Grand Admiral smiled. "But," he whispered, "it was so artistically done."

Digi-Abit

Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:18 pm

#29

Eaca wrote:

Digi-Abit wrote:

It should be more balanced.. pistoleers,carbineers, riflemean should deal the same DPS.. pistoleers with lower dmg @ a faster speed.. riflemen with more dmg @ a lower speed.. etc

Can you give one good reason for this other than you say so? Is it so unfathonable to have classes that do different DPS but have other differences to ballance them. Ballance can in fact exist without everything being the same. Why can't rifleman do more damage but have crappy defenses both ranged melee and def vs. status change, pistols do less damage but have defenses out the wazoo and are not only hard to hit but are next to impossible to land status changes on, carbineers do moderate damage, have moderate defenses, but have a lot of status change attacks. So what we have is rifleman beats pistoleer, pistoleer beats carbineer, and carbineer beats rifleman.

Oh wait, you don't want to be beaten by anybody, you want your class to be the best, so that won't work will it.

What you suggest will make everybody pistoleers since its often more important to get that next shot off sooner than it is to hit harder. Also in order to give us the same DPS you would have to give us the same defenses, otherwise as it stands rifleman are at a serious disadvantage here since block may or may not work, we have decent ranged and melee defenses, but our status defenses suck to high heaven. So again, everybody goes to pistoleer since we do the same damage, but they have better defenses.

I don't want to be a pistoleer. I don't want to play a game where everybody is a pistoleer.

Of all the lame excuses I've heard over the last few weeks, yours is the only to actually catch my attention. I'd give you guys that... more DPS, that'd be fine. One thing is hitting hard... but it's a totally diffrent thing to be dead-eye accurate from point blank range... considering you guys use a weapon that's designed to be used at around 50m+

Not only that, mitigation has to be broken with riflemen. I could understand a TKM or something getting strafe 2'ed for 1500dmg with a T21... but a master pistoleer with ranged mitigation 3 should not be taking anywhere near that much damage. I don't know if anyone has actually every posted about this, but it's true. Sure T21's are powerful, but they aren't what I could consider "mitigation weapons" meaning, a high min damage.

~~xxxxxxXxxxxx~~x
Digi Abit-Vulcan Aerius s Zeni is my woman! Back the **edit** up!
s Delta * Dark Forces s Dark Jedi Enforcer s
You don't know the power of the SEXY side

Eaca

Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:46 pm

#30

Digi-Abit wrote:

Of all the lame excuses I've heard over the last few weeks, yours is the only to actually catch my attention. I'd give you guys that... more DPS, that'd be fine. One thing is hitting hard... but it's a totally diffrent thing to be dead-eye accurate from point blank range... considering you guys use a weapon that's designed to be used at around 50m+

Not only that, mitigation has to be broken with riflemen. I could understand a TKM or something getting strafe 2'ed for 1500dmg with a T21... but a master pistoleer with ranged mitigation 3 should not be taking anywhere near that much damage. I don't know if anyone has actually every posted about this, but it's true. Sure T21's are powerful, but they aren't what I could consider "mitigation weapons" meaning, a high min damage.

Ah, finally, a nerf cryer that will listen to reason

We're not all that accurate at close range as people think, though I will agree with you that it should be worse.

As far as the strafe 2 thing lets do some quick math and see if you're right...

I don't know what they have on your server, so I'm going to use a gun I have in my backpack. T-21 with stock no krayt 34% damage slice 33% damage PU for a range of 262-709 damage. With damage mitigation 3 this reduces the damage range to 262-440. Assuming a perfect hit with strafe 2 (x 5) and the PvP reduction (x 0.25)this is 550 damage to target. Without damage mitigation the strongest hit is only 886, so if in PvP you're seeing 1500 damage strafe 2 hits thats either due to the corpse stack bug (known issue with all AoE attacks, not just ours) or somebody has a killer gun (but would it really supprise you if mitigation were broken and working backwards

)

Another problem I see in PvP is dabblers and other non defense stackers going up against master rifleman and getting pounded. This, I think, is as intended. Just cause you spend all your skill points on various classes, but mastering none, does not mean you should be better than someone who masters a profession. The one skill point you spend on a master elite profession should be by far the most valuable skill point you spend. Currently it is this way for riflemen, and should be this way for all professions. Also, I have a few guns that I had experimented entirely for accuracy. They don't hit so hard but my E11 powered up has an accuracy of +169 @ 54m. Should I be able to hit you pretty decently with this from 10-20m... I think so, heck it has a +50 target accuracy mod while standing at 30m, hits +50 while running at 40m. I bought this gun specifically TO hit your ass at close range and hit template stackers at long range

Anyway, is rifleman perfect? No, but its the ranged class that I feel is as close to working as intended as there is. Should we be nerfed in some fashion? I think so, but not our damage, at least not to the point where we're pistoleers. Take away our defenses, at least some of them. Fix the melee to hit penalty, as it seems to be a bonus right now. Give back 2.5x melee damage penalty, maybe at master since before that we suck anyway. All I ask is that the devs not nerf the one class thats closest to working as intended before they fix the other classes.

Eaca

Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:15 pm

#31

I sometimes wonder if people are playing the same rifleman class as I am...

Pire wrote:

reasons:

1. pistoleers are better at max range then rifleman.

No they're not, tho I will grant you they're not terribly worse.

2. mind is not recoverable via stims, so you dont have an infinite pool liek action or health.

Buffs

3. concealment, any type of stealth which the profession is designed for, is not working at all on a practical scale.

Your assumption that we were designed for stealth is a personal belief. I believe we were designed to do massive damage.

4. no rifleman specific armor available in game that would permit us to function while wearing armor. in order to be able to fire more then 4 showe have to wear clothes.

Again buffs. I wear 80+% composite with a stun helmet in PvP with over 1000 mind costs. I do just fine.

5. bugs, bugs, bugs bugs bugs + poor design.

I would argue that our class is the best designed in the game, and the one closest to functioning properly

6. nerf this nerf that nerf somethign else cause of idiot whiners but dont actually fix the bugs.

Ok so we agree on something

7. feeling of being lied to, cheated and ripped off by SOE as i have paid for what i was falsely lead to believe was a complete / playable product at launch date, while the game is barely becoming somewhat balanced and professiosn are barely becoming mostly finished (75% or so).

Welcome to the next generation of MMORPG's

8. professions not doing what they are supposed according to profession descriptions, job titles and poor idiotic design. for example: snipers cant snipe because there is no stealth or any sort of functional , practical sniping whatsoever implementedin game, etc.

Titles could be more appropriate.

9. extremely poor rewards for combat professions. i hate crafting. give me an appropriate reward for time and effortinvested for what i do in game. stupid badges dont count. i need somethng functional, practical and tangible.

There's always everquest (or as I like to call evergrind)

10. dying in one or two hits, mostly due to inability to wear armor as stated above, but also because of being forced to pump up mind stats to rediculous levels for reasons also stated above, which has left me with 575 health and 600 in action, while wearing clothes.

And lastly Buffs.

Almost 1/3rd of your complaints seem to be due to you not wanting to be buffed. If you want to be able to do anything at any time, pick another class. If you want the power that rifles bring, shell out the cash for the buffs. This is our biggest weakness, our complete inability to fight reliablywithout the influence of stat enhancers.

NasherUK

Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:10 pm

#32

Try being a carbineer, then you will understand why rifleman needs a nerf

RIFLEmen should be forced to take time while aiming and not be able to run around and shoot like pistoleers while doing insane damage.

RebelKangaroo

Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:19 pm

#33

My only problem with everyone crying nerf is just that....everyone crying nerf. It's un utterly stupid way to fix something. However, if we do get nerfed, I will personally still play as a rifleman and I will still kill people just as effectively as I can right now. It's just a simple strategy of learning your class and using tactics. Most of the nerf herders are just a bunch of lazy people that think a game like this should be as simple as a FPS when it shouldn't. If the devs listen to those type of people and in the end do nerf us, I will keep rifle purely to kill players that are the next FOTM profession just to piss them off that a then lowly master rifleman could kill them.

Ciet Darksun - Tempest

"A litte rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day"
-Calvin and Hobbes

PsychoticChipmunk

Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:26 pm

#34

NasherUK wrote:

Try being a carbineer, then you will understand why rifleman needs a nerf Riflemen should be forced to take time while aiming and not be able to run around and shoot like pistoleers while doing insane damage.

Why not though? That is all that we can do. Fire our guns for high damage. We don't get any state effects outside of dizzy. Our only posture change is up which is worthless in PvP. The only thing on us that is overbalanced is our melee defense (which we dont' really know how imbalanced this is due to a bug) and our accuracy needs to be brought down a tad.Ss has been pointed out in many other threads you can't simply take DPS into account for the entirety of PvP. There is just too much more that is involved to simply ignore and focus solely on DPS.

Oh and carbines were broken, ever think that was a reason you fell in battle? You guys are getting fixed up in the next patch. Enjoy some of the bandwagonners that this will entail because we won't be crying over their loss.

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dimmu-borgir

Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:28 pm

#35

NasherUK wrote:

Try being a carbineer, then you will understand why rifleman needs a nerf RIFLEmen should be forced to take time while aiming and not be able to run around and shoot like pistoleers while doing insane damage.

please, occasionally check your forum and the in development/testing pages, you are getting fixed, and well... i am carbineer as well...

carbines are crowd contol and state change, not necessairly high dps, you get knockdown, dizzy, blind, stun, posture down, while we get high damage, dizzy and posture up (useless)

Dimmu Borgir

I art in thine base

Slaying thine doodz

signal1941

Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:11 pm

#36

NasherUK wrote:
Try being a carbineer, then you will understand why rifleman needs a nerf RIFLEmen should be forced to take time while aiming and not be able to run around and shoot like pistoleers while doing insane damage.

then why not FIX CARBINEER rather than nerf rifleman?

Takro Kest

PsychoticChipmunk

Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:34 pm

#37

signal1941 wrote:

NasherUK wrote:

Try being a carbineer, then you will understand why rifleman needs a nerf RIFLEmen should be forced to take time while aiming and not be able to run around and shoot like pistoleers while doing insane damage.

then why not FIX CARBINEER rather than nerf rifleman?

They are, and will likely be the next FoTM class that will get nerf cries against it (well after we get nerfed to high heaven) while all of us...well me and whoever is still playing get to sit back and laugh at them. We'll just laugh, and laugh...and laugh

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ga2

Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:08 pm

#38

I will quit as well. If the combat balance does not affect all classes (meaning everyone gets nerfed). I'll cancel my subscription. The lack of communication with the devs on this issue has got me trying different games. Anything to fill the void of this game. I dedicated countless nights to this game and finally meet my goals only to have the devs change the game on me. It's pathetic that they didn't have the combat classes balanced to begin with.

Count me in on quiting this game.

They need to get in here and explain themselves to us why we are getting nerfed.

dmax999

Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:21 pm

#39

I've had about enough as well. I've been an armorsmith for a while and wanted only one single bug fixed with PSGs. Been top issue for AS for 5 months and Devs have yet to even acknolodge it happens. Used to be pistoleer and hated that too.

I finally went with rifleman, something that works. If it gets wacked to where I am as usless as I was with pistoleer then I'm done. Sick and tired of them putting in more bugs and breaking more stuff that works fine while ignoring stuff that is top issues for months for professions.

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