Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman Revamp : How does it look?
I think all combat professions will be getting a bit of a revamp. Remember those in concept threads months ago? Those were filled with ideas on how people view uppon their class, how theyde want things changed, etc. We have two DLT20's? I thought I just made a typo and forgotten the a.
superBOY5 wrote:
Who said we were getting a revamp? I could swear there was several other professions that could use some loving. By the time they are fixed hopefully the combat revamp will be out and we should be fine. Rifleman is a working profession. It does not need to be revamped... This actually looks like an entire recoding of the profession too. Weapons would have to change. We only have a few specials that need fixed. I rather SOE work on the other professions before they touch our specials because frankly.... I am tired of being a nerf herder. Herding cries of nerfing rifleman is no fun.... The DLT20 needs to be in the Novice marksman tree since carbines and pistols both get one other weapon in that box other than the CDEF. You also forgot the DLT20a...
Marva32 wrote:
Just my 2 cents worth on the Ghillie Suits. Why does a sniper have to be removed from the radar? Make the suit, or other concealment act as some form of accuracy defense modification, so that while they may know you are there on the radar, they cant hit you.
The idea WAS that snipers would be removed from radar, that idea was wafted away by the devs. So I proposed we do show up on radar, but we arent recognised as a threat, WHEN we act as a sniper Prone, hidden away. The first strike ability.
Accuracy Defence modification is viable too, but Stealth is what I would want to accomplish....not just another set of defences
KardenTyrell wrote:
All Rifles would primairely use Assault Rifle mods, including the lower level Rifles, but discluding the new Sniper Rifle(Although Im not sure how I would classify the Tusken Rifle). Rifles that I added with a #, would have the option to apply SniperKits on.
This would be a very viable way to do my idea, but I do want the Sniper to have a feeling that he's tinkering his own Rifle for optimum results. So it would take a considerable amountof time to apply the powerup, but it has a bigger range of charges then normal powerups, say 500. However, when the powerup depleted, you'll also have to remove it, wich takes a considerbale amount of time, as if you'de be ReTuning the Scope...etc(meaning you cant shoot it anymore untill you remove the kit or retune it). (edited: What I also dont want is when one is doing his sniping work, all his assault skills are in order, and vica versa. It has to be a choice. Currently we really dont have one, we pick our best moves and spam them, according to the sucomstance)
The three types of accuracy and speed mods I think is overcomplicated. Especially since we can do with just one. As for the sniper kit we can change that so it isn't charges at all but a permanent mod. Like a slice. Once you get the sniper kit added it can't be removed and you will have a weapon with better accuracy but also be slower. This is in line with real life where you can take a military rifle and make it into a sniper byadding a heavier barrel. scope, and other things done to military rilfes to make them snipers.
Rifle crawl speed is very usefull, especially with my idea. How frustrating is it that targets move out of 64m range and you have to crawl back to shoot him again. Especially for those leveling its very usefull. If anyone levelled their Rifleman, with Ranger terrain negotiation, you'de know what Im talking about. The Single pull idea is just an enhancement to our current Rifle concealment chance. A leveling rifleman (if you can remember those times waste =]) always worries if they would not attract the whole lair or camp or they'de be swamped. The Bleed works, but not entirally, you see if you go too far, theres a chance the mission respawns with full mobs again, if you stay too close, you can attrack the full camp/lair.
Next question. How would the Riflemans crawl speed stack with the Rangers? Right now only Rangers have a crawl speed mod. Terrain Negotiation caps at +50, everythingafter that is a Crawl Speed mod for them.
Leading idea is something you'de for being able to take the first shot with high damage, generally the advantage snipers have. You see the LOS changes on testcenter when correctly implemented, would give you cannot see target if the terrain is in the way. You cant shoot through hills anymore, but...you can wait for a specific mob to come around the corner or hill where you're carefully aimed with a Higher damaging Opening Shot .
Scenario, you saw someone coming around the corner, you shoot and he ducks away. You set yourself up, waiting patiently for him to reappear, as snipers do. Thats where those loss of combat rounds are for, we get the benefit of a very accurate shot, with higher damage the normal. As soon as the target appears, the shot is fired, with almost a garuanteed hit. Leading makes it so Cueued Skills stay on Hold, instead of it emptying itself out when something moves out of range or whatever.
Leading wouldnt be something used in midfighting, but primairely as the Snipers, Opening shot.
Got ya. It's only going to be useful as a opening shot special then. It isn't going to be cost effective after that opening shot at all.
Waste93 wrote:
KardenTyrell wrote:
All Rifles would primairely use Assault Rifle mods, including the lower level Rifles, but discluding the new Sniper Rifle(Although Im not sure how I would classify the Tusken Rifle). Rifles that I added with a #, would have the option to apply SniperKits on.
This would be a very viable way to do my idea, but I do want the Sniper to have a feeling that he's tinkering his own Rifle for optimum results. So it would take a considerable amountof time to apply the powerup, but it has a bigger range of charges then normal powerups, say 500. However, when the powerup depleted, you'll also have to remove it, wich takes a considerbale amount of time, as if you'de be ReTuning the Scope...etc(meaning you cant shoot it anymore untill you remove the kit or retune it). (edited: What I also dont want is when one is doing his sniping work, all his assault skills are in order, and vica versa. It has to be a choice. Currently we really dont have one, we pick our best moves and spam them, according to the sucomstance)
The three types of accuracy and speed mods I think is overcomplicated. Especially since we can do with just one. As for the sniper kit we can change that so it isn't charges at all but a permanent mod. Like a slice. Once you get the sniper kit added it can't be removed and you will have a weapon with better accuracy but also be slower. This is in line with real life where you can take a military rifle and make it into a sniper byadding a heavier barrel. scope, and other things done to military rilfes to make them snipers.
Agree. Too many sets of modifiers is more than the Devs should have to worry about for just one class. I like the idea ofthe 'sniper kit' and that of it being a permanent modification.
Rifle crawl speed is very usefull, especially with my idea. How frustrating is it that targets move out of 64m range and you have to crawl back to shoot him again. Especially for those leveling its very usefull. If anyone levelled their Rifleman, with Ranger terrain negotiation, you'de know what Im talking about. The Single pull idea is just an enhancement to our current Rifle concealment chance. A leveling rifleman (if you can remember those times waste =]) always worries if they would not attract the whole lair or camp or they'de be swamped. The Bleed works, but not entirally, you see if you go too far, theres a chance the mission respawns with full mobs again, if you stay too close, you can attrack the full camp/lair.
Next question. How would the Riflemans crawl speed stack with the Rangers? Right now only Rangers have a crawl speed mod. Terrain Negotiation caps at +50, everythingafter that is a Crawl Speed mod for them.
Can't take away the Rangers' mod, so I'd say we've no need for, or possibility of, getting a mod for 'rifle crawl speed'.
Leading idea is something you'de for being able to take the first shot with high damage, generally the advantage snipers have. You see the LOS changes on testcenter when correctly implemented, would give you cannot see target if the terrain is in the way. You cant shoot through hills anymore, but...you can wait for a specific mob to come around the corner or hill where you're carefully aimed with a Higher damaging Opening Shot .
Scenario, you saw someone coming around the corner, you shoot and he ducks away. You set yourself up, waiting patiently for him to reappear, as snipers do. Thats where those loss of combat rounds are for, we get the benefit of a very accurate shot, with higher damage the normal. As soon as the target appears, the shot is fired, with almost a garuanteed hit. Leading makes it so Cueued Skills stay on Hold, instead of it emptying itself out when something moves out of range or whatever.
Leading wouldnt be something used in midfighting, but primairely as the Snipers, Opening shot.
Got ya. It's only going to be useful as a opening shot special then. It isn't going to be cost effective after that opening shot at all.
Sounds good
First off, I love the fact that you have take the rifleman template and turned into a more "military" style profession. Let's not forget, our in-game characters are engaged in a Galactic Civil WAR. I watched someone post about incorporating ghillie suit in another thread and get his read ripped off by people saying "this isn't SOCOM", and crap like that. True, this game is not SOCOM, but guess what, it is a WAR game in a sense. And in WAR, soldier's use things like ghillie suits. My stance is this; for those who don't want to participate in the conflict, by all means, stay out. But for those of us who do, we should have things that give the game a more military feel. That is why I like Karden's vision; it can function as a mere hunter, a sniper, or a front line soldier. Well, sorry about that little rant, but I am an FPS, mil-sim player at heart, and the reason I wanted to play this game was to be part of the GCW, and not be some "uber-buffed d00d" who kung-fu's people in PvP outside the starport. (And no offense to my actual TK friends
))1. I really like the implementation of the "Block" Skill mod. Think about this; when a rifle is drained of ammo, it essentially becomes a polearm. It may be an awkward one, but an individual can use it in this fashion. Furthermore, because of the weapon's size, it could be used to block incoming melee' attacks as well as to counterstrike. Don't believe me? Just watch any video showing Marine Corps or Army bootcamp or Silent Drill Teams. A rifle can do a lot more than just shoot projectiles.
2. The Sniper kit. Great idea; I've wanted something like this since I started playing. I agree with Waste93, though. It should just be made into a one time conversion kit, like a slice. By adding the scope, stock, barrel, recoil dampener, and enhanced gas capacitor (or whatever SW guns use) we could turn our "assault" rifle into a permanent sniper's weapon. More damage, better accuracy, but slower reload. Perhaps give us a crafting tool, and send us out to harvest certain resources to build each component. A little mini-quest to add to the storyline-feel of the game.
3. Buttstroke. Goes hand in hand with my first comment. There is no reason why a Rifleman can't snap his/her rifle around and smash some TKM in the face with the stock. Better yet, give us a bayonet so we can stab 'em too. Imagine that! Riflemen able to defend themselves in CQB! I doubt that the Everquest-loving Devs will ever give us that luxury though. (I make this accusation based on the dominance of melee' profesions in this game.)
4. Damage types, Speed, Skill, and Accuracy. This whole Assault/Sniper damage/skill mod thing you have going seems a little strange. I like the premise, but I can't really justify making things any more complicated. I mean, an M16 that is modified to be a sniper's weapon still fires a bullet. The damage type doesn't "change", nor does the operation of the weapon change. If I read you wrong, correct me, but I think we should stick with one thing. Maybe just make "Sniper" skills target the head while "Assault" targets the health or something...just a thought.
5. I didn't see StrafeShot2 on your list. Perhaps I missed it? This is a great special, and I'd like to see that intact.
6. Ghillie suits. Or Therm-Optic/Electronic camouflage. Since the devs won't allow us to vanish from radar (to prevent hacks), nor will they allow us to engage beyond 64 meters, your solution to this seems the best. We show up as neutral or something on radar and have to be manually targeted. This means that if we use cover, someone will actually have to move around to get LOS on us. The camouflage suit could also be a mini-quest. Maybe we could work with a Ranger or Artisan to go about crafting it. It should also be necessary to craft a new suit for each planet, since the terrain varies.
7. The Spraystick. For the love of god, get rid of this stupid thing. We still need to have a rapid-fire, low-damage weapon, but please please make it something else. Or at least change the graphic.
Well, that's all for now. I'll reread your stuff later. Who knows, maybe we will actually get something like this in the revamp. I doubt it, but I'm still hoping. Good work, Karden.
I'm kind of toying with a Commando revamp as well, hopefully I can make it as comprehensive as this.
HarlequinMK19 wrote:
Okay, I gave everything a good read through, so I'll try to post some comments now.
First off, I love the fact that you have take the rifleman template and turned into a more "military" style profession. Let's not forget, our in-game characters are engaged in a Galactic Civil WAR. I watched someone post about incorporating ghillie suit in another thread and get his read ripped off by people saying "this isn't SOCOM", and crap like that. True, this game is not SOCOM, but guess what, it is a WAR game in a sense. And in WAR, soldier's use things like ghillie suits. My stance is this; for those who don't want to participate in the conflict, by all means, stay out. But for those of us who do, we should have things that give the game a more military feel. That is why I like Karden's vision; it can function as a mere hunter, a sniper, or a front line soldier. Well, sorry about that little rant, but I am an FPS, mil-sim player at heart, and the reason I wanted to play this game was to be part of the GCW, and not be some "uber-buffed d00d" who kung-fu's people in PvP outside the starport. (And no offense to my actual TK friends
1. I really like the implementation of the "Block" Skill mod. Think about this; when a rifle is drained of ammo, it essentially becomes a polearm. It may be an awkward one, but an individual can use it in this fashion. Furthermore, because of the weapon's size, it could be used to block incoming melee' attacks as well as to counterstrike. Don't believe me? Just watch any video showing Marine Corps or Army bootcamp or Silent Drill Teams. A rifle can do a lot more than just shoot projectiles.
It would be very cool if they would actually bring in a motion capture of a man picking his rifle up to block an attack. Little things can be a big difference.
2. The Sniper kit. Great idea; I've wanted something like this since I started playing. I agree with Waste93, though. It should just be made into a one time conversion kit, like a slice. By adding the scope, stock, barrel, recoil dampener, and enhanced gas capacitor (or whatever SW guns use) we could turn our "assault" rifle into a permanent sniper's weapon. More damage, better accuracy, but slower reload. Perhaps give us a crafting tool, and send us out to harvest certain resources to build each component. A little mini-quest to add to the storyline-feel of the game.
Im re-evalutation the idea, to go with the input I received. I like the idea to make the way of a Sniper something you experience, not that you grind.
3. Buttstroke. Goes hand in hand with my first comment. There is no reason why a Rifleman can't snap his/her rifle around and smash some TKM in the face with the stock. Better yet, give us a bayonet so we can stab 'em too. Imagine that! Riflemen able to defend themselves in CQB! I doubt that the Everquest-loving Devs will ever give us that luxury though. (I make this accusation based on the dominance of melee' profesions in this game.)
It doesnt need to be that damaging, at least it should give us a chance to being able to retreat from advancing enemies.
4. Damage types, Speed, Skill, and Accuracy. This whole Assault/Sniper damage/skill mod thing you have going seems a little strange. I like the premise, but I can't really justify making things any more complicated. I mean, an M16 that is modified to be a sniper's weapon still fires a bullet. The damage type doesn't "change", nor does the operation of the weapon change. If I read you wrong, correct me, but I think we should stick with one thing. Maybe just make "Sniper" skills target the head while "Assault" targets the health or something...just a thought.
The idea was that when you'de be playing as a sniper, you would target specific areas, the head, the weakspots, the neck. Crippling blows a sniper usually deals. Playing as the Soldier would give you advantages in quick area Damaging shots (opposed to Carbineers debuffing shots and status effects), and the ability when you've located the sniper, to flush one out so he is very vulnerable to attacks.
5. I didn't see StrafeShot2 on your list. Perhaps I missed it? This is a great special, and I'd like to see that intact.
I love strafeshot too, but I initially wanted to change that it would offer a status attack instead of just damage (as described in novice rifleman box). Ill keep this in consideration when I rewrite the template.
6. Ghillie suits. Or Therm-Optic/Electronic camouflage. Since the devs won't allow us to vanish from radar (to prevent hacks), nor will they allow us to engage beyond 64 meters, your solution to this seems the best. We show up as neutral or something on radar and have to be manually targeted. This means that if we use cover, someone will actually have to move around to get LOS on us. The camouflage suit could also be a mini-quest. Maybe we could work with a Ranger or Artisan to go about crafting it. It should also be necessary to craft a new suit for each planet, since the terrain varies.
Ghillie suites are an advantage, but to get that advantage you must make some effort. I agree with you, but I also dont want this to be something that becomes rare an very unused....or something people can really make a bussiness out and start selling on the vendor. (Make it user specific?)
7. The Spraystick. For the love of god, get rid of this stupid thing. We still need to have a rapid-fire, low-damage weapon, but please please make it something else. Or at least change the graphic.
If I recall...someone once posted the correct picture of the spraystick, opposed to the developers design. (anyone?)
Well, that's all for now. I'll reread your stuff later. Who knows, maybe we will actually get something like this in the revamp. I doubt it, but I'm still hoping. Good work, Karden.
Thanks for your Input, I appeciate it. I appreciate input from everyone for that matter, negative or positive. You thinking about revamping Commando? Go for it Ide say...the combat balance is a long way, you have time to perfect proposals before its time for real changes.