Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman offence:5 is it true? (CU concerns)
Ackehece
Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:15 pm
#27
*was going to say something about the pronoun he... but it really is not my style*
Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-18-2005 12:18 AM
Roscannon
Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:53 pm
#29
Atreus47 wrote:
It's CARBINES not 'carabines.'
carabines makes me think of eating too much caramel and pretzels
Ivon
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:20 am
#30
use startle shot, good damage.
also, this quote--> (let's say that head shot hit every second, while sniper shot hit every 2 whitout actually consider the cooldown)
makes the whole point useless, look at everything at once if you are going to compare things.
I agree that critical shot damage is a tad bit high, but going prone for rifleman is no real problem, you dont take more damage, and you can shoot things point blank.
mrifle/msquad leader/4040 bh on tc right now, have yet to lose a duel. and i use snipershot 
my main problems right now are...
- its hard to tell if you are dizzy/stun/blind, a tiny little circle above your head when your being blown up with a flamethrower is.. inconvenient.
- the usefullness of bounty hunter (practically all ranged templates have some bh) mainly caused by the damage of critical shot
- how extremely pathetic melee is vs ranged (slow down/stop moves render them useless, and melee has no advantage when they actually do get close)
- combat spam is... cluttered o.O
- the "actual" usefullness of all weapons in a proffession. Damage needs to be slightly increased on the explosive shell sniper rifle, and something like the jawa rifle for elemental damage.
- why are they giving us uber buffs from the frogs? why not give us actual doctor buffs... so that we can balance them.... and not judge things when we have more health/regain than we should.
- Why does you and your opponents health bar shoot up and down during a fight, wayy bugged right now.
will think of more, lazy -_-
Zilod
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:48 am
#31
Ivon wrote:
use startle shot, good damage.
also, this quote--> (let's say that head shot hit every second, while sniper shot hit every 2 whitout actually consider the cooldown)
makes the whole point useless, look at everything at once if you are going to compare things.
I agree that critical shot damage is a tad bit high, but going prone for rifleman is no real problem, you dont take more damage, and you can shoot things point blank.
startle is a good skill but not a real damage dealer, is a master skill with decent damage (around 20% inferior to head hit) and the debuff
that comparsion for sniper shot whitout taking in account the recast time is just to show the problems that it have due to preparation time.
recast in this case is not important as even if a skill have a long recast we can use another shot so it doesn't add on "combat time" as the preparation does.
critical shot is fine IMO, is the master skill of BH the damage is good but not excessive, i'm more bothered by leg hit that is a box3 carab skill and do the same damage as critical and more damage than head hit
(carab is offence 4 and is good both with AOE and some crowd control, rifle is offence 5 so should be superior to it)
aaa for all other issues you posted i agree, maybe a counter to root (with some preparation time) will help a bit, the bar that go up and down is not the opponent that gain HPs or lose them, i think is a sort of lag, when you hit an opponent the bar goes down for a moment and then it go again up, the real opponent HPs are the ones you see the moment you hit, when the bar is down.
Message Edited by Zilod on 04-17-2005 09:58 PM
dimmu-borgir
Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:09 pm
#32
and well, as for today, concealing made me dissapear off of radar, permanantly (even when i stand up), enemies still see me, i still see me
but uh, were getting there, i hope
but uh, were getting there, i hope
COLDFUSION11
Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:45 pm
#33
other players don't see you, go overt, and walk infront of an opposing faction player
spit in his face, and he won't do jack
rebel dancing overt in the streets of bestine, gotta love it...
and for riflemen being the best, for 1v1 it is, it isn't that great for team battles unless your on the outskirts of the fight, even then, if another riflemen sees you, and a meleer gets on you, your done for.
Grahd_Plats
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:26 pm
#34
Zilod said:
also i'm not saying that rifleman is crap, i'm just saying that seem to me, and by the tests i ran that it's offence is not where is supposed to be, carab can probably put out more dps and with better defence/corwd control
I have to agree with this.
Mr.Coldfusion seems to forget how the carbine 50m max range is not all that limiting. Lots of fights take place inside cantinas, Spaceports, and in cities where at much more than 50m...LOS is broken by buildings/houses anyway. Also, in the "wilderness" you can no longer shoot through the terrain (e.g. hillsides) which I agree is a good thing. Once again at 65m LOS can get quickly broken. So, basically the 15m rifle advantage is only an advantage on flat ground, in wide open spaces. I can't remember very many fights like that.
ALso, the servers do NOT update a players position like a FPS (DUH! for many of you)....have you ever played SWG with 2 clients right next to each other? There is a 2-3 sec delay between the time I move on my PC to the time I see myself move on teh other PC. In that amount of time 15m can be be gone. I don't know how many times on live I have sharted shooting at someone who was within 65m only for it to immediately say OUT OF RANGE. I have no idea how melee play this game. Maybe because all the fights happen in closed spaces like I said above.
On a sidde note: I play on Bria. People say the server lag is way worse there than on most servers...so maybe all that crap I just wrote..../shrug
also i'm not saying that rifleman is crap, i'm just saying that seem to me, and by the tests i ran that it's offence is not where is supposed to be, carab can probably put out more dps and with better defence/corwd control
I have to agree with this.
Mr.Coldfusion seems to forget how the carbine 50m max range is not all that limiting. Lots of fights take place inside cantinas, Spaceports, and in cities where at much more than 50m...LOS is broken by buildings/houses anyway. Also, in the "wilderness" you can no longer shoot through the terrain (e.g. hillsides) which I agree is a good thing. Once again at 65m LOS can get quickly broken. So, basically the 15m rifle advantage is only an advantage on flat ground, in wide open spaces. I can't remember very many fights like that.
ALso, the servers do NOT update a players position like a FPS (DUH! for many of you)....have you ever played SWG with 2 clients right next to each other? There is a 2-3 sec delay between the time I move on my PC to the time I see myself move on teh other PC. In that amount of time 15m can be be gone. I don't know how many times on live I have sharted shooting at someone who was within 65m only for it to immediately say OUT OF RANGE. I have no idea how melee play this game. Maybe because all the fights happen in closed spaces like I said above.
On a sidde note: I play on Bria. People say the server lag is way worse there than on most servers...so maybe all that crap I just wrote..../shrug
KundoJet
Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:24 am
#35
1.I'm pretty sure we'lre all big enough to recognize that English is not everyone's first language here, and it doesn't hurt us to lay off slagging someone's spelling as long as their intent is clear, as it is in Zilod's case.
2. You don't have to be a jackass as a Corr in order to be the "squeaky wheel"and have your issues treated seriously. Pleasant persistence works very well, thanks. In fact, stepping outside the process is an excellent way to have your profession's concerns shoved to the back burner. This has nothing to do with playing kissy-face with the Devs, it's a simple matter of showing common courtesy and respect (golden rule, anyone?) and recognizing that the process for managing communications with the dev team exists for a perfectly valid and constructive reason. It's not arbitrary. The system forCorr's collecting, prioritizing and forwarding issues exists to ensure that the Devs get the top priority issues put forward clearly and cleanly, with as little distracting whining and unconstructive repetition as possible. Acke has clearly demonstrated in her short time on the job that she's able to make a positive difference for the profession by working within the system, which is the best compliment one can offer a correspondent, since that is their (unpaid and thankless) job. /kowtow Ackehece
3. The point of testing is not to find your "ub3r" template, it's to ensure that the system works and is balanced. In other words, there isn't supposed to be a single profession or template that consistently beats the others - that's why we're going through this CU in the first place. Quite honestly, if rifleman IS the ub3r profession in PVP post-CU, I'll probably drop it, because I have little interest in being compared with the l33t kiddies who (like some in this thread) spend all their time trash-talking, bragging about how unbeatable they are, and generally making annoyances of themselves and (by association) their profession.
Kalaf
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:12 am
#36
"Sniper shot is designed to break cover but once it dumps a boat load of damage on the target.'
huh? I don't really understand this. It makes no sense. As for the comments about Sniper shot and conceal being only prone. They should really be Prone or Kneeling. If only because they have gone to LOS fire. I know fom RL experince that I can stay under cover and out of sight in the kneeling position as easily as I can prone.
Mujadaddy
Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:51 pm
#37
Our corro is a female . . .
ANYWAY . . . if riflemen can't do big DPS, they are not nukers. Rifles need to be nukers -- 1k-2k+ PER HIT. Anything less is just shooting people, not nuking them. As far as commandos go, their DPS should be about what rifles is, but since they automatically get kd's (rockets) and fire/bleeds (flamers), their "per hit" should be a little less than ours.
ANYWAY . . . if riflemen can't do big DPS, they are not nukers. Rifles need to be nukers -- 1k-2k+ PER HIT. Anything less is just shooting people, not nuking them. As far as commandos go, their DPS should be about what rifles is, but since they automatically get kd's (rockets) and fire/bleeds (flamers), their "per hit" should be a little less than ours.
KundoJet
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:51 pm
#38
Mujadaddy wrote:
Our corro is a female . . .
ANYWAY . . . if riflemen can't do big DPS, they are not nukers. Rifles need to be nukers -- 1k-2k+ PER HIT. Anything less is just shooting people, not nuking them. As far as commandos go, their DPS should be about what rifles is, but since they automatically get kd's (rockets) and fire/bleeds (flamers), their "per hit" should be a little less than ours.
The advantage of commandos should, I believe, be the ability to do heavy damage to multiple targets, including through DOT. Rifles are for doing a lot of damage very quickly to individual targets. It makes sense for the warm-up period to be there, to keep the DPS down to reasonable levels, (and because it takes more time to work the action of a sniper rifle, and to aim through a telescopic sight, ctronl breathing, etc.), but yes, I agree the damage output per hit should be the highest (dunno about 1-2K per hit, but I haven't been tracking numbers that closely).
COLDFUSION11
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:02 pm
#39
did Grahd_plahts just call me Mr. Coldfusion? What the hell is that? as if my last name is coldfusion... is that supposed to be a condescending remark or something? i don't get why you called me "Mr. Coldfusion" im utterly confused, and as for 50 meters not being worthless, in a large scale battle, which i haven't foughten in a real large scale, but atleast 30 people fighting, not exactly equal sides, i was able to reck havoc on unexpecting bounty hunters. I would nail one out of the pack while the enemy was retreating, and my squad would keep the 60 meter distance on the poor bounty hunter, as his teammates watched as we blasted him into shreds.
Without being able to do a ranged db, we did a triple incap, so we didn't have to get into enemy range.
This of course is a case of catching a retreating enemy instead of an advancing enemy, but root is better for chasing then fighting a charging enemy i find. Because when an enemy charges, they usually have the hp to fight back, and are usually ranged fighters to begin with, and your not able to root all the enemies out of range, but with retreating enemies, you can root them, kd them, and then get 60 meters away with enough time to finish the job.