Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman is just fine.
LiakyK wrote:
and why a Jedi would complain about riflemen is beyond me... I mean hell I have heard of up to 10 people shooting at a Jedi and hardly hitting him...
(1) 
REZ, REPEAT.
Jhyson-Bria wrote:
Kachada wrote:
KnightHawk420 wroteon't forget at master it also has the highest dmg outpost by far of all the ranged professions due to the shear speed.
True. But as they say. that Damage per second ain't everything.
Waste93 put up a good comparison of the three ranged professions.
Rifles: Hi Damage, Medium States (dizzy/stun), Low defense.
Carbines: Hi States, Medium Damage, Low defense
Pistols: Hi Defense, Medium States, Low Damage.
Besides the doctor buffs&armor which have shifted the entire game to Stun damage calsses (BH pistols, Fencer, Rifleman) and DoT wielders (Combat Medics, Pikeman)
You also have the problem that Carbineer and Pistoleer are rife with things that have been broken since launch. Pistol's specials. Carbineer's HAM costs. If the other ranged professions were fixed, doc buffs & armor balanced, you'd see a whole different game. And more ranged classes.
Of course it would be easier just to nerf Rifleman in to crap, rather than bring all the professions in line with one another. /shrug
Dunno after seeing what happened to the CMs, I think a proactive stance would be better than a reactive one, but not having a correspondant does not help.
Being proactive and pushing forreplacement of thebroken speed formula with a new one (aleveling across the board to all professions)might save us from have'n to deal with higher speed caps or other nerfs.
P.S. Commando/Rifleman is my primary characters template.
I know well, the nerf bat.
Small steps... not just for rifleman, for everyone. Head shot hits your head... the part of your Health protected by your helmet. Leg shots hit the part of your health related to your legs.
If someone isn't wearing leg armor, and they get hit with a leg shot, their health loses more points than if it were covered in composite leggings.
Mind for healing, action for specials, health for damage.
yourshepherd wrote:
LiakyK wrote:
and why a Jedi would complain about riflemen is beyond me... I mean hell I have heard of up to 10 people shooting at a Jedi and hardly hitting him...
I came here to raise the question, then someone mentioned something about aTK/DOC. Then we all tried to imagine thatother professionscould be better at hitting mind than a rifleman. If rifleman isn't overpowered why was everyone on TC2 one.
Message Edited by AldeonAvardulin on 08-13-2004 12:43 PM
Waste93 wrote:
yourshepherd wrote:
1.) already discussed TK.
2.) Swordsman: Similar issues as TK, much less accuracy and speed, and medium piercing... range still limited.
3.) Bounty Hunter: Eyeshot with geo pistol (AP0) Range still less than a rifleman, and less damage.
4.) Commando? I must have missed something... it's random.
Commando has Master Marksman. Which means they have Rifles IV from that tree. Which means they can target the Mind is a HeadShot or MindShot if they use a rifle.
BH can use Scatter Pistol which is AP1. And range isn't less than Rifleman. Max range is 64m for them just like Rifleman, Carbineer, Pistoleer.
TK has more speed than a Rifleman. It's +105 in fact.
One thing about accuracy. Are you adding in the accuracy mods from the specials? Bet you aren't. If you do you'll see accuracy is just about even at least for all the range professions (except Commando probably).
BH has a scatter pistol that does acid damage... in which sliced armor protects against even more than Kinetic, unless it isn't special layered. Compare that to the DX rifle from the geo... some with upwards of 600 damage and dots. Accuracy for a pistol drops off alot faster than that of a rifle.
I've yet to face a master commando who has pulled out a jawa ion using his master marksman skills.
One thing about speed. Compare the DPS of unarmedheadhit, with headshot3.
A "rifle" "nerf" of being unable to target the mind pool would effect all classes. TK included. However, you're still going to be able to strafe2 AOE faster than a TK at farther range than a non aoe UnarmedHit3.
So you'll still be able to kill steal krayts solo.
AldeonAvardulin wrote:
Ok, first off calm down and stop flaming.
The reason rifleman is overpowered, and yes they are. Compared to many other classes the rifleman is better and therefore to them overpowered. The problem is as someone has stated, that rifleman have 2 major advantages. Stun damage, and the ability to hit the mind pool. You also have pistoleer/BHs, however in order to get a good enough geo pistol, you pretty much have to camp the Geo cave for a schematic which is very very rare.
Many classes have the ability to hit the mind pools, swordsmen and TK both do, however niether have stun damage and both are in close range. Also swordsmen, take alot to be speed caped. But realize, both these melee prof are heavily stacked with defenses. Pistols have huge amount of defenses.
What defenses do rifleman have? We have 0 KD def,+10state defenses. And +30 to posture change. Where as a pistoleer has 40 defenses vs states, 50 kd, and 20 posture change. Also look at the accuracy while moving of the pistoleer.
A pistoleer can with the right pistol be better then a rifleman, I will tell you that straight up. In my guild we have pistol god specs. master pistoleer, smuggler pistol, bh pistol. Who have both, a awsome DE-10, and an awsome Geo pistol. In fact, the de-10 which is energy damage usually does more damage then the Geo. The de-10 is658 max damage, alot of pistoleers do not know this. (AP1)
See how many classes pistoleers have to compliment them? They not only have those, they aslo have commando. However, in order to get stun damage, and mind damage they need 2 prof.
I could break down many other classes for you and show you the advantages they have over rifleman, but that would create one very long post.
Every class has thier advantage, the only problem is we have the best at the moment, and that is what Im trying to point out. The main problem here, is to be perfectly honest. Armor, plus very few light other problems.
If you have 40% kinetic, TKs, do great damage, if you have 40% blast Swordsmen will destroy you. 40% energy, Imagine how much better that DE-10 is going to be.
Every class has thier own advantage, we just have the 2 best advantages in one single class. Giving us the ability to stack defenses alongside it making us the best. That is the main problem.
Message Edited by AldeonAvardulin on 08-13-2004 12:43 PM
It's very true, armor is the problem, and a BH pistoleer should be much tougher to defeat than a master rifle, for skillpoints consumption alone. TK, also has a low amount of defenses, quite similar to the rifleman with hardy boost to Melee, and ranged defense. No rifleman can't KD people unless they supress and flurry, but they can however kite the hell out of their opponent.
The only downfall someone can come up with for rifleman is vs. melee players. For pve, it can do just about every damage type in the game, and for pvp it can shoot the snot out of anyone who isn't full mind buffed, drunk, and otherwise equipped with a PSG.
A sniper doesn't fire as fast as a gun blazing pistoleer.
Unarmed combat is fast... faster than swords, slightly faster than fencer, and obviously faster than pike.
It's rifleman that's out of sync, wholistically. Deny it to the combat balance.
XaverriJade7 wrote:
You stated elsewhere that you were Doctor and TKM, so don't try to imply I brought it up out of nowhere. And I'd like to know who exactly said anyone could hit Mind better than a Rifleman? Sounded to me like you were under the impression that only Rifleman could do it effectively. 'Best' and 'Effective' are different things. Why is 'everyone' a Rifleman on TC2? Would you want to play a broken class if you had the choice? Seeing as how you've admitted having a Jedi, I very much doubt you would. Most other people would like to have a Jedi were they able to. Since not everyone can(or is ambitious enough to put forth the effort), they take the next best thing- the class which is not broken and has all its weaknesses negated by other in-game systems that are not tied to the class itself.
Well here's what I said in my original post... which you quickly replied afterwars asking me about TKM/DOC.
You do that without buffs and food do ya? No armor? You still want to maintain that it's the Rifleman bit that is letting you do this??? Your presentation is a bit decieving there bud.
ToughGy wrote:
just wanted to say that rifle IS overpowered... hense the reason i chose it as my profession.
I mean i can go to the krayt graveyard with my 33% damage sliced disruptor and a crate of 31% damage Pups and spam advanced strafe and kill steal a krayt from any size group. I dont' do this because i don't like to bring a bad name down on my guild but it is technically possiable. we have tested it and it has happened to us from other riflemen.
You can be novice pistol and shoot that fast. You have to be Master Rifleman/Master Marksman and probably a few 1 million credit rifle speed tapes to do the same. Again, this is not the Rifleman profession itself doing this. +90 speed is nullified by speed 9 weapons.
KnightHawk420 wrote:
Kachada wrote:
Again...
Rifles are dominant for 2 reasons...
We can do good stun damage (bypass 80% armor)
We can hit mindpool (bypass +2700 health/action buffs)
Is it rifles that need nerfing? or these other features which have driven so many to the rifle? Likely both, but do not forget all the reasons why people choose Rifles.
Don't forget at master it also has the highest dmg outpost by far of all the ranged professions due to the shear speed.