Rifleman Archive
Thread: -=Rifleman semi-bi-weekly state of the profession address=- June 20 2005
Ackehece wrote:
Many issues again face us as we go forward post cu.
Hate still reigns as one of our major issues - It has not changed appreciably since the CU and while we wish it change rapidly the devs are working slowly and methodically at a system that should address our concerns in the future.
Many people have now completed quests for the Rifles and the cybernetics in ROTW and this has created a interesting and varied community. These also have raised the fact that rifleman are getting to be to ubiquetious again (Remember I said arms were a mistake) and pvp is debalancing in some hideous ways with us being the debalance (or at least our weapons being used for the debalance T_T)
We have seen a rise in nerf calls on rifles from many professions due to this and (now breathe deep) .... the devs have heard the concern. I have seen from a credible source that a possible min range nerf is headed our way . Even after I have stated time and again that this is the wrong way to fix this.
We have a few options (please do not aggro on the devs that will just defeat our cause T_T).
What exactly is the issue, anyway? If it's the rifles and cybernetics from RotW it'snot a rifleman issue at all, is it?
Sorry, but all these nerf calles are just laughable to me. People seem to complain that riflemen have more range and do more damage than other professions (What the hell?), but they seem to not understand that this is the sole purpose, the role of riflemen. If riflemen takes any form of nerf, I expect a nerf to the other professions and their roles too. If the damage dealing of rifleman is nerfed so that pistoleer and carbineer does equal damage, I fully expect pistoleers to not be able to do better crowd control than rifleman, I fully expect docs to not be able to heal better than riflemen etc.
Ackehece wrote:
- increase the short range (<35m) accuracy penalty to 50-75% of our accuracy
- decrease the effect of arms on rifleman and increase the effect on pistoleers and carbineers
- public information about the longer ranged pistols and carbines (both have 65m weapons)
- make mezs and roots only apply from pistols and AOE's only from automatic weapons
- increase SAC costs on rifles for non rifle attacks (or even if need be rifle attacks)
- ???
None of these options are really viable IMHO or not a "fix" that would placate the nerf calls. Number 1 and 5 would have to come with an increase of damage for rifles, and 4 would seem to go against the entire idea behind the CU and the way the specials work. Might as well make them all weapon specific again. Number two could result in a situation where pistoleers and carbineers have a longer range than rifles, which is just laughable. No, my suggestion is this:
6. Remove the range cybernetics from the game, and give all ranged professions an overall range increase of 15 meters. (after all, doesn't seem like it's a rifleman issue at all)
Another "problem" is that everyone uses laser rifles for the range, and here is a fix for that:
7. Make all level 40+ weapons bound to specific skill boxes, make people actually pick up the rifleman skillboxes if they want the high level, hard hitting weapons. Make people actually pick up the pistoleer skillboxes if they want the hard hitting, low SAC close combat ranged weapons etc.
There are 4 posts already here that make excellent points.
Warmaker01, Issik, Vicotnik, and Valetman.
Although, I'm sure you know what they have written and iterated it time and again to the Devs.
I play two accounts. A Riflewook, and an AS. Currently, my AS is broken beyond belief. Now it seems my Riflewook is going the same way. I've been ignoring this game over the last week and getting back into WoW. If a nerf goes through, I'm done with SOE games forever, hell, even if it doesn't I'm almost ready to go. I'm just fed up with SOE/LA's ability to turn what should be the best MMORG into utter crap.
Ato
Ifsomeone gets the drop on you from 50+ meters you should be in bad shape.
As far as a min range...lol give me a break.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that the Winchester in my closet will kill you dead if you are 30 meters from me...or right next to me.
Kolibrilator wrote:good idea would be to cange ranged arms to give accuracy bonus instead. or if that's not possible make them less effective for rifles, more effective for pistols and same as now for carabs (weapons, not prof) ... this way max range wouln't be 80m and noone could take down a turret from total safety.About rooting/snaring/kd from 80m range, the devs should be made to understand that anyone can do that, not only riflemen. either add a skill requirement to the ALR (that would get us protests from the other ranged profs) or go tweak the generl ranged accuracy/speed or something that makes the ALR quite clumsy in the hands of somenone not even novice rifles.But punishing one profession for all the things they missed when planning profession combination ... yeah right
This is still a bad idea to increase Range Arm benefits to the other range professions.
Carbineers with their superior specials, will then be able to reach Rifle range of 64m. Heck, the mid-CL DXR-6B Carbine already reaches 64. Many of the best Carbines reach 50m.
Pistols will then be able to hit at Carbine ranges also. Some of them already can since quite a few Carbines have a max range of 35m, i.e. DC-15 Carbine.
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed." Riflemen already move slower.
They want Riflemen to have a minimum range or severe Accuracy Penalty at <35m range?
People do not like the idea of Rifles being able to use Roots, KDs, and Snares?
....
Then give the Rifleman profession inherent Rifle Range increases at Master. As we all know, the distance in combat is still easily closed in SWG.
Increase DRASTICALLY the Rifle Accuracy Modifier at Master.
Increase the damage output of Adv.Sniper Shot. Give an "Advanced Head Shot" at Master Rifleman which gives even greater damage, but ONLY with a Rifle equipped.
Increase the stats of the T21 or lower the stats of the Adv.Laser Rifle.
These requests aren't asking for Rifleman to get Snares, KDs, or Roots to be inherent in the profession. It asks for Riflemen to hit extremely hard at range if they want us to suck in close range.
The one thing that I do not want ot see is a Pistoleer having the same range as me. Rifles are supposed to have greater ranges. If they give the Pistoleer's our range I hope an huge accuracy penalty come along with it.
I agree on the arms.
Geaux Darkcloud nerfing is the absolute WRONG thing to do. I agree with the other poster about changing the arm from range to accuracy. This is what I propose.
Change cyber arm from ranged to accuracy
Move the ALR to a MRifleman only weapon
Change the T21 to kinetic to give a valid purpose again
Remove hinderance for carrying a pistol and lessen it for a carbine
Allow pistols and carbines to be fired at 65m but with an accuracy penalty
Never Ever include a minimum range (really if you think about it, it should be easier to shoot something at point blank)
Leave specials as they are
DO NOT NERF ANYTHING (well you could nerf them Jedi and I wouldn't mind)
- increase the short range (<35m) accuracy penalty to 50-75% of our accuracy
- decrease the effect of arms on rifleman and increase the effect on pistoleers and carbineers
- public information about the longer ranged pistols and carbines (both have 65m weapons)
- make mezs and roots only apply from pistols and AOE's only from automatic weapons
- increase SAC costs on rifles for non rifle attacks (or even if need be rifle attacks)
- ???
I guess Rifleman: (As N being a number, M being meters, Italics as "bad" for rifleman)
-Can't hit from nm<5m
-Severe acc penalty from nm<10m
-"Normal" acc at 11-40m
-High acc at nm>40
Interesting discussion, Disclaimer - Was a rifleman back before cu and not a current on.
Currently Jedi, BH, Pistol and smuggler.
my .02 for what it's worth. Don't think min range makes sense.
Think the funcution of rifles is hard hitting / slow firing. The slow or limiting factors on rifles would be I think sac cost. Higher sac cost keeping the spaming of high damage specials to a mininum. (could be the case now)
Not sure what rifles are hitting for now days either but if their damage doesn't match the slow fire rate.
Meaning it should be high if slow and low if High, then the damage needs to be adjusted to fit.
Also saw post on carbs and pistols having wpns with ranges of rifles this in it's self is inbalancing to rifles since now you would have the range of a rifle with out the sac cost, unless those wpn also have high sac cost.
All in all don't see that the cu brought much balance but flung us back to the game when it was new and they were trying to balance it with patches and we ended up with a cu. See us back to talking about a new cu in another year or so.
As a jedi I'm more concerned about roots.(no matters who's it is, since jedi have it too). Being able to do nothing but stand and die seems alot more unbalancing to me then firing at 65m.